UTS v UWS (2 Viewers)

[erawamai]

Is the Criminology degree at UNSW more specialised? I remember looking it up and instead it being a major in the Soc Sci Degree its its own degree?

I'm not sure. I know one girl who did it and whenever I saw her she seemed 'happy'. But that's about as much as I know about unsw B Criminology. I thought about doing a SocSci degree in yr 12 but I dismissed it because I felt that the units of study were too restrictive. *

*Note to people out there. This is my subjective opinion. My opinion that unsw b Soc Sci was too restrictive IN NO WAY means that it is implict that uws is a bad university or that the uws soc sci course is a bad course. I present no judgment on the courses or uws as a university. My comment is constrained to unsw and does not apply to any other univerisites. It is also based on my limited knowledge of Criminology courses in all universities. Everything I say is subjective opinion created for the purpose of discussion. My comments are not intened to represent that uws, uws law or uws b Soc Sci are bad things.

 

[melsc]

Its strange because you can't combine it with an LLB at UNSW because its not part of the LLB/Soc Sci degree.

 

[Sarah]

What's the difference between Arts and Social Science at UNSW? All the Social Science specialisations seem to appear in the Arts course as well.

Also, at UNSW, do you only choose one specialisation or numerous? Policy Studies looks interesting.

At UNSW, Social Science has core subjects and the list of majors on offer is restricted to those considered as Social Science e.g sociology, politics, policy studies, economics just to name a few.

Unsw Arts- there's more flexibility in choosing majors. A significant difference is that you can do a language major in the Arts degree.

All soc sci specialisations are also offered as Arts majors but those offered by other faculties e.g pyschology-faculty of Science, economics- faculty of commerc and econ, can only be undertaken as a Arts major if you do a double major with a school located in the Faculty of Arts & Soc Sci .

At UNSW if you wanted to do a major in policy studies (along with a major that offered through the Social Science degree), you may as well do B Social Science as the core subjects of a Social Science degree also make up the major for B Arts (Policy Studies)*.

On a side note, first year policy studies aka first year social science, is not interesting at all.

* The policy studies major can also be constructed by undertaking subjects which aren't part of the core for B Social Science. The faculty recommends a major in policy studies for students who are interested in policy but aren't interested in learning research methods/skills.

Is the Criminology degree at UNSW more specialised? I remember looking it up and instead it being a major in the Soc Sci Degree its its own degree?

I don't know what Criminology at UWS is like so i can't really comment on whether it's more specialised in comparison to UNSW.

You're right though, it is it's own degree. A few of my friends are doing Soc Science Criminology at UNSW. Their whole degree is almost planned out for them. All they needed to do was choose a couple of electives here and there (i think b/t 3-4) plus gen-eds.

 

[melsc]

I hope you sort it all out Hypertrophy I'm sort of having my doubts too, if you choose UWS we'll have the same classes :uhhuh:

 

[= Jennifer =]

some great things about UWS law school:

• uws won the constitutional law moot for 2005 and has made the grand final for the last four years
• one uws student was chosen out of a pool of 600 applicants to sit on the national youth roundtable 2004
• there are heaps of schloarships available
• there is always some sort of law function going on (usually campbelltown campus)
• one of our uws law academics took up a spot on the international criminal court
• we have an established pro bono programme
• many of the academics have written journal articles and texts in their field
• the majority of staff are very approachable and are willing to help you at any time
• the seminar style learning is great because it is more interactive then lectures and allows for opinions
• you do not get many assessments only 2 or 3 per subject
• many of the law students are friendly and approachable no one is stuck up and alot of us work together

 

[Frigid]

with all due respect, UTS has similar honours, as do most law schools

 

[hYperTrOphY]

Thanks Jennifer. I spoke to Professor Carolyn Sappideen today and she was telling me some of the good aspects of UWS Law, including some of which you have mentioned above.

Carolyn is probably one of the only people of whom I spoke to who seemed to answer me honestly when I asked about the status of the course in comparison to other unis and about future employment opportunities. She admitted that the university does not enjoy the same status as other unis such as USyd, UNSW etc, but it is changing. She mentioned that she gives speeches and presentations about UWS Law to city law firms regularly throughout the year, and commented on employer's positive response to the program. She said, the more exposure UWS recieves over time, the more employers will come to acknowledge the quality of UWS Law and its graduates, which is in fact already happening.

I think I will go to UWS as it is the university which has the course I want, in a convienant location and with the scholarships. If however, I feel that it is not the right uni/environment for me to be successful in the future, I will transfer. I think that is probably the best way to go about it...(I hope).

 

[hYperTrOphY]

with all due respect, UTS has similar honours, as do most law schools

That is true, but I doubt the intention of Jennifer's post was to argue that UWS is superior to other law schools.

 

[Frigid]

That is true, but I doubt the intention of Jennifer's post was to argue that UWS is superior to other law schools.

neither was it mine to show that UWS is inferior. i'm just filling in the blanks...

UTS has, if memory serves correct, won the most national mooting comps as a uni (including this year's Harry Gibbs), PLT as part of the degree, etc etc.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

neither was it mine to show that UWS is inferior. i'm just filling in the blanks...

UTS has, if memory serves correct, won the most national mooting comps as a uni (including this year's Harry Gibbs), PLT as part of the degree, etc etc.

Mooting is for Noobs.

 

[Frigid]

Mooting is for Noobs.

yeah, that's why i run witness examination instead.

 

[santaslayer]

I haven't read the thread but,

It IS very tempting to go to UTS over UWS. The thing is that, someone who has an ability to study shouldn't have many obstacles they would struggle through. I would choose UWS at this moment in time since:

1) You'll have a scholarship and look heaps cool.

2) It's within close proximity

3) You'll probably kill most, if not everyone in the course.

4) You have the exact course you're looking for.

I don't think that someone who got 98+ would have any reputation issues. Seriously.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

3) You'll probably kill most, if not everyone in the course.

I think this is fairly ignorant, alot of the students at uws were mature age or had a decent ammount of practical experience. While I don't doubt that someone with a uai of 98 has the ability to kill it, I still wouldn't want to make it appear although his competition will be idiots.

 

[hYperTrOphY]

neither was it mine to show that UWS is inferior. i'm just filling in the blanks...

Fair enough.

I haven't read the thread but,

It IS very tempting to go to UTS over UWS. The thing is that, someone who has an ability to study shouldn't have many obstacles they would struggle through. I would choose UWS at this moment in time since:

1) You'll have a scholarship and look heaps cool.

2) It's within close proximity

3) You'll probably kill most, if not everyone in the course.

4) You have the exact course you're looking for.

I don't think that someone who got 98+ would have any reputation issues. Seriously.

Thanks mate, I hope you're right.

 

[santaslayer]

I think this is fairly ignorant, alot of the students at uws were mature age or had a decent ammount of practical experience. While I don't doubt that someone with a uai of 98 has the ability to kill it, I still wouldn't want to make it appear although his competition will be idiots.

Since the UAI is a measurment of one's readyness for tertiary study, I don't think I was wrong in stating that he would kill most if not everyone at UWS. (Yes, I do know that a UAI of 80 is sufficent).

I don't believe UWS are idiots at all. I have an ex who goes there. She seems pretty normal . You're the only one at the moment who seems to be interpreting my post in the wrong way. Are YOU the one who thinks like that? Since YOU'RE the one who is putting words into my mouth. I'm only going by your own personal admissions. You don't seem to like studying there.

EDIT: I don't think mature age students are in DIRECT competition with normal undergraduates since their degree pace should be faster.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I don't believe UWS are idiots at all. I have an ex who goes there. She seems pretty normal . You're the only one at the moment who seems to be interpreting my post in the wrong way.

I didn't intepret it the wrong way... you think he will kill most/all uws students, I think that's a bit of an oversimplification.

You don't seem to like studying there.

Wanting to switch uni's doesn't mean I think the people are UWS are idiots.

I don't think mature age students are in DIRECT competition with normal undergraduates since their degree pace should be faster.

No... they are in direct competition.

 

[santaslayer]

I didn't intepret it the wrong way... you think he will kill most/all uws students, I think that's a bit of an oversimplification.



Wanting to switch uni's doesn't mean I think the people are UWS are idiots.



No... they are in direct competition.

How complicated is it then?

You keep on using the term "idiot". Not me. I DO think he will kill most, if not all students. I still haven't referred to them as idiots. breing able to kill all UWS students doesn't mean UWS houses idiots. It just means he has special aptitude. Just like the person (James?) who topped UoW for law. He got to become the High Court CJ's right hand man. That doesn't mean UoW is filled with idiots. It just means he is perticularly intelligent and hard working. I wonder how you interpret High Court judgements? =P

Mature age students don't need to do a double degree. Therefore they finish quicker and start finding a job faster. Even if they were in direct competition, practical experience is very different from theory and vice versa. They have no particular advantage. All universities have mature age students as well. Mature age students just means they are mature. It has no direct correlation with study ability.

 

[MiuMiu]

Just like the person (James?) who topped UoW for law.

James Goudkamp is a freaky, freaky man.

He got the university medal for science and law, has won all the national Law essay competitions he has entered and just beat out thousands of applicants to become Michael Kirby's associate. He hasn't even finished his college of law training yet!

 

[MiuMiu]

UTS has PLT as part of the degree

Innovated by UOW of course

I think most law schools will end up doing this eventually...

 

[Not-That-Bright]

How complicated is it then?

It also comes down to;

- Interest in the field.
- Reasoning skills.
- General knowledge.

You can put in alot of work and try your best and not do that well... just as with alot of knowledge and skill you can put in little work and do very well.

While I certaily conceed that someone with a higher uai has a greater chance of having such capability, there are many stories of people with high uai's doing bad... and people will low uai's doing good. I would suggest that uni is a completely new ball game and how well you did in the hsc can only be used as a guide to how well you have achieved in the past and how well perhaps you can achieve in the future. I imagine we would find on average that students with higher uai's perform better, but it is by no means anywhere near a guarentee.

You keep on using the term "idiot". Not me.

I had to use it again because you posed the question of whether the way I am categorising your view UWS students is because of my own perspective.

Just like the person (James?) who topped UoW for law. He got to become the High Court CJ's right hand man. That doesn't mean UoW is filled with idiots. It just means he is perticularly intelligent and hard working.

Yes, just because one person is a genius does not make the others dumb. However by suggesting with no other knowledge other than the fact that this person achieved a uai of 98 and the cut-off at uws is 90 that he will beat all/most of the students is insulting.

Even if they were in direct competition, practical experience is very different from theory and vice versa. They have no particular advantage.

They do have an advantage, at least in the first year of the degree. They have a basic theoretical knowledge from their practical experience.

It has no direct correlation with study ability.

It isn't the students who study the most who achieve better, it is the students with the most knowledge/ability and willingness to express that knowledge that do best. A person with years of experience in the legal system already has a wealth of knowledge beyond that which the students will find in their books, this does help them.