UTS v UWS (2 Viewers)

[erawamai]

MAQ doesn't have Criminology

Why are you so keen on criminology?

I know at unsw the Criminal law courses are choc full of criminology already. I think after two sessions most people were tired of it. Anyways most law schools offer criminology electives in the later years if you are so inclined.

76012 Criminology
6cp
Requisite(s): 70217 Criminal Law
There are also course requisites for this subject. See access conditions.
Undergraduate
Subject coordinator: Penny Crofts

This subject explores how crime is socially constructed. A diverse range of criminological issues is considered. These include official and non-official measures of crime; theories of crime; variables of crime (age, sex, ethnicity, socioeconomic status). Additionally, methods of controlling crime and preventing crime are reviewed. Readings for this subject are derived from a collection of books, reports, articles and current conference papers.

LAW412 Criminology - 4 credit points
An examination of the historical development of theories about crime and penal systems. Emphasis is placed upon developing a critical understanding of the Australian experience; comparative materials are drawn from the study of other societies. Major topics include feminism, Aboriginal and critical criminologies.

Crime and Society - LAWS1003

Faculty: Faculty of Lak
School: Faculty of Law
Campus: Kensington Campus
Career: Undergraduate
Units of Credit: 8

Prerequisite: LAWS1001, LAWS1011; or LAWS1610; Corequisite: LAWS2311 or LAWS1010.
This subject seeks to provide students with a theoretical framework in which to understand crime as a particular social phenomenon: the criminalisation of particular social activities, who commits crime and whose social activities are more likely to be policed. Through an analysis of selected readings and case studies, we will look at the role of sex, race and class in explaining men's and male adolescents disproportionate participation in crime, men's and women's involvement as victims of specific types of crime and why, when women and female adolescents do commit crime, their criminality disrupts the construction of normative, 'law-abiding' femininity. The case studies we will examine this semester include:
(i) The Trouble with Men and Boys
(ii) The Colour of Crime: race and crime statistics
(iii) The Creation of Crime through Moral Panics: sex crimes and the criminal body.

Penology - LAWS1005

A critical interdisciplinary subject involving historical, sociological, political and legal materials. Topics include: prisoners and the prison movement; discipline and punishment; media issues; the legal regulation of the administration of punishment through imprisonment; privatisation of prisons; reform. The emphasis on different topics may vary from year to year according to contemporary developments.

Also, In my opinion, generalist degrees complement specific law degrees better. Be it BA/LLB, Com/LLB or Sci/LLB.

I think a specific degree and a law degree would send me a little bit bonkers due to the lack of variety of study. Especially if I got through my first year of the specific non law degree and felt I didn't like what I was studying very much.

 

[erawamai]

As you are all aware, we just got our UAIs (I got 98.80). Since first applying for uni I have been swapping my first and second preferences and I still can't decide which uni to attend, to study law - UTS or UWS.
If I provide some pros and cons of each uni (for me, personally), I was hoping some of you may be able to provide some advice to help with my decision.

Congrats on your score.

Most people tell me I should go to UTS because Law there is very respected (as I have found out since talking to law firms). It is therefore this superior status which could possibly influence future employment opportunities, which is the major advantage of UTS Law over UWS.

The perception is that UTS law is better. Whether uts law or uws law is better will often depend on the student. I can't really comment on the uts or uws experience but the common perception is that uts is a superior law school to uts.

I have spoken to UTS Law students and all have been very happy.

Frigid couldn't wait to transfer to unsw after one year at uts. Maybe you should speak to him.

Furthermore, UTS has a wider selection of electives to choose from, which is also appealing.

Don't be fooled . Many law schools have a massive list of electives. However the truth is that not all of them are popular enough in order to be offered each session. The 'core' electives are taught each session. Such as advanced contract, intellectual property, dispute resolution and remedies etc.

However, the main disadvantage of studying at UTS is that I am not too keen on any of the courses to combine with law. I have chosen B Social Inquiry, but even after going through all the units and assessments, I fear that I won't enjoy it. I have thought about doing a straight LLB, but I would prefer to combine it with something else.

It's better to combine law with something. A full load of law first up in first year is a big big big big step up from highschool. Again my opinion.

Law is like another language. Students should be eased into it.

The other significant advantage is that, while I haven't heard if I have been successful, I will probably get $10,000 worth of scholarship money p/year. Coming from a low socioeconomic family, this would be extremely helpful.

Wow! Very persuasive.

Anyway, I'll also speak to my careers advisor and will probably go to the UWS and UTS course decision days that are coming up to also help decide. If anyonehas any advice it would be much appreciated. Thanks.

Also with your uai you should put down uwsw, as neo said, you could always do a first year at uts and transfer over to unsw like frigid did.

 

[Frigid]

Frigid couldn't wait to transfer to unsw after one year at uts. Maybe you should speak to him.

oi! you make me sound like a turncoat with a capital 'T'.

UTS law is good. UWS law is also good. i shall not give you excessive marketing like LaraB did, because i do not know the comparator well.

perhaps i should stress one point: university is what you make of it. the name and repute of the testamur can only get you so far.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

That is a good point.




Unless you need that money in the short term, that is not a valid consideration. The income foregone by going to a lesser university will be at least 10 times.

Unless you need that money in the short term, that is not a valid consideration. The income foregone by going to a lesser university will be at least 10 times.

We're not talking about going to harvard or uws, we're talking about going to UTS or UWS. Also, I am going to go out on a limb and say that it's easier to get a distinction average in law at uws than it is at uts, so if he is planning on getting in to unsw or usyd then uws would be the better choice.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

True.
However going to UTS does give a significant advantage in employability AND in future income growth when compared to UWS.

Can I see any statistics on graduates incomes after 10 years, comparitively between the uni's? I have good uni guides but it doesn't show any of that sort of information, all I know is that the average income is higher for a student from uts than that from uws after a year, but that doesn't speak much for income growth.

There is more to a university than just how tall its buildings are. Lets not forget UTS looks like a concrete jungle and has less of a traditional university campus look than UWS, being a big tall building and all. Did you also ever consider that peace and quite is an advantage for a uni to have, afterall being a study and learnng environment.

It's definately true.

 

[theone123]

That is a good point.


That does sound attractive.
However, unless you need that money in the short term, that is not a valid consideration. The income foregone by going to a lesser university will be at least 10 times that $ 50K.

i will challenge your point, first of all, the remuneration of a UWS Law graduate won't be to an extent lower compared to a law graduate of other universities. secondly the scholarship is a valid consideration. consider it this way, your HECS free...

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Well, I can't think of a specific case I know of a UWS grad getting into Goldman Sachs, but I know of UWS Grads getting offers from big city law firms before they have graduated... you just have to be committed, like anyone in any law school has to be.

 

[erawamai]

Also, I am going to go out on a limb and say that it's easier to get a distinction average in law at uws than it is at uts, so if he is planning on getting in to unsw or usyd then uws would be the better choice.

I think Frigid said that getting D's at uts was easier than unsw. I actually don't think the marking is harder. It's just that the cohort is of a higher standard. IF everyone in your class is exceptional then it's harder to get a D. They simply can't give everyone D's.

 

[Frigid]

I think Frigid said that getting D's at uts was easier than unsw. I actually don't think the marking is harder. It's just that the cohort is of a higher standard. IF everyone in your class is exceptional then it's harder to get a D. They simply can't give everyone D's.

i think i should qualify that statement a bit.

i think, comparing my performance in Accounting for Business (UTS) and Accounting 1B (UNSW), that the Faculty of Commerce and Economics at UNSW marks harder than the Faculty of Business at UTS. that so, I think there's also a lot more spoonfeeding in Accounting for Business, but I am unsure whether this is true across the board for Business subjects at UTS or whether it is specific to Jon's style of teaching.

in Legal Process and History at UTS (the equivalent of Legal Foundations + Public Law at UNSW), i found Rob did not at all mark 'soft' on me. In fact, I think his standards were quite high [something like 1 HD, 10-15 Ds in a cohort of i think 200]. To give another example, I think Mark marked the past semester's Administrative Law (at UNSW) papers quite 'softly' [i had poor preparation but still managed 80% for the final].

in short, i don't know and cannot say for certain which uni marks 'hard' or 'soft'. i doubt it can be generalised in this way, as i think it varies from lecturer to lecturer.

 

[melsc]

Why are you so keen on criminology?

Really I'd prefer to do a straight LLB but since I didnt get the marks for UTS and four year course anyway I have to do a combined degree and nothing else apppeals to me I know that there are parts of Criminology in the law component

 

[xeuyrawp]

nothing else apppeals to me

That's why most people do a general BA / .

 

[melsc]

That's why most people do a general BA / .

But what is wrong with Criminology?

 

[erawamai]

But what is wrong with Criminology?

It just means you are stuck with it even if you don't like it. And studying the same thing for 3 years can be tedious. Then again you might love criminology so much that you like doing it all the damn time.

in Legal Process and History at UTS (the equivalent of Legal Foundations + Public Law at UNSW), i found Rob did not at all mark 'soft' on me. In fact, I think his standards were quite high [something like 1 HD, 10-15 Ds in a cohort of i think 200]. To give another example, I think Mark marked the past semester's Administrative Law (at UNSW) papers quite 'softly' [i had poor preparation but still managed 80% for the final].

How did Aronson mark the midsession? I wasn't in his class when I did Admin but I heard he failed a fair quite a few people in the midsession but then marked nicely in the end of session exam. In any event I cant really compare since you did the new Admin course with the decent text book.

 

[melsc]

But what is wrong with Criminology?

As you know I've been researching laws degrees, pathways into them etc for ages (maybe if I studied instead I would have done better) and it took me ages to find a course that i felt I would like, besides a straight LLB, trust me I didnt just open the UAC book and pick the first com. degree i pointed to

 

[hYperTrOphY]

It just means you are stuck with it even if you don't like it. And studying the same thing for 3 years can be tedious. Then again you might love criminology so much that you like doing it all the damn time.

It's actually a degree in Social Science, but you can specialise in criminology. However, if the very unlikley happened and I didn't enjoy criminology I could always pick units from psychology or any of the other areas.

The reason for wanting to do criminology (other than the fact it is something which appeals to me) is that it provides knowledge and job opportunity into other fields I have an interest other than law such as joining the AFP, ASIO etc.

It may also be of some assistance if I was to do criminal law after graduating.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Easiest way to join AFP/ASIO would be taking a language, like if you study arabic I imagine they'd be very interested in you at such times.

 

[hYperTrOphY]

What's the difference between Arts and Social Science at UNSW? All the Social Science specialisations seem to appear in the Arts course as well.

Also, at UNSW, do you only choose one specialisation or numerous? Policy Studies looks interesting.

 

[neo o]

The reason for wanting to do criminology (other than the fact it is something which appeals to me) is that it provides knowledge and job opportunity into other fields I have an interest other than law such as joining the AFP, ASIO etc.

Where have I heard that before?

 

[Frigid]

How did Aronson mark the midsession? I wasn't in his class when I did Admin but I heard he failed a fair quite a few people in the midsession but then marked nicely in the end of session exam. In any event I cant really compare since you did the new Admin course with the decent text book.

true... he wasn't too nice in the midsession (i got a credit), but the new format meant that the midsession was maximisable... so yeah...

and the new book is prettttttttyyyy...

 

[erawamai]

The reason for wanting to do criminology (other than the fact it is something which appeals to me) is that it provides knowledge and job opportunity into other fields I have an interest other than law such as joining the AFP, ASIO etc.

If you want to join ASIO, DFAT, ONA etc you need a degree in Politics and International relations.

Criminology will get you a job in the police force or something similar. It's focus is domestic.

true... he wasn't too nice in the midsession (i got a credit), but the new format meant that the midsession was maximisable... so yeah...
and the new book is prettttttttyyyy...

I always felt that Admin marking was random. I know people who got 55 and others who got 85, and there is no way that there was 30 marks difference in ability between them.