Does God Exist? (2 Viewers)

[Not-That-Bright]

have faith, its a higher and smarter way to live ur life

Some people have 'faith' that chopping other people's heads off is good for the world, they really truely believe they are on a quest from god.

God is above all including your human reasoning? Why is he? Where did your beliefs come from? Do you actually believe you came up with these beliefs on your own....

whehter we meet god or not in the afterlife is another question that we cannot answer- all we can do is believe

Tell this to the jehovas witnesses who honestly believe that god will be comming in their generation, untill they're 80, looking out the window and seeing other young guns who think god is comming back in their generation...

 

[fooshmahoy]

You are all focusing on prooving that he does exist? Is there any concrete proof that he doesnt?

You cant just say its not logical. The idea that an all powerful, supreme being created us may seem illogical, but science doesnt neccessarily offer us anything more logical. How did the universe begin? What was before the beginning? Nothing? How can nothing exist? Was there no beginning? Does time just go on forever? Those type of questions are just as incomprehensible as the idea of an afterlife.

And if the world began with the big bang theory, is it really logical that from complete entropy, the absolute order of the universe was created? Since when did entropy=order?

I know science cant explain everything, and that doesnt necessarliy mean we should assume God exists. Just pointing out it cant justify that he doesnt either.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

You have nothing to gain out of these arguments and everything to loose. It's possible to debate other people's beliefs and the merit of them, but it's impossible to conclude that there is no creator of the universe.

It is untill you meet a question which can only logically be met by the answer that there is a god... i have never experienced this.

 

[Sophie777]

You should be a priest. They preach bullshit in a way that makes people think they are preaching truisms.

Seriously. I don't care what you think. You are nothing to me, I don't even know your name but I do know that you are putting forth a useless claim that God is above everything in a thread that asks 'does God exist' what is your proof?

Nothin. You have none. You have nothing to say. So all you do say is crap.

Tell me one logical reason why God does exist. I really don't think you can.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

You are all focusing on prooving that he does exist? Is there any concrete proof that he doesnt?

You cant just say its not logical. The idea that an all powerful, supreme being created us may seem illogical, but science doesnt neccessarily offer us anything more logical. How did the universe begin? What was before the beginning? Nothing? How can nothing exist? Was there no beginning? Does time just go on forever? Those type of questions are just as incomprehensible as the idea of an afterlife.

And if the world began with the big bang theory, is it really logical that from complete entropy, the absolute order of the universe was created? Since when did entropy=order?

I know science cant explain everything, and that doesnt necessarliy mean we should assume God exists. Just pointing out it cant justify that he doesnt either.

That's why i don't use science, i use logic.

 

[Iron]

It is untill you meet a question which can only logically be met by the answer that there is a god... i have never experienced this.

Since when does logic come into the equation? How could it ever? I reiterate; you will never prove or disprove the idea of the supernatural. The idea that you're arrogantly waiting for an individual to persuade you otherwise is laughable.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

An atheist will encounter many and varied claims for the existence of a particular deity. It only seems reasonable to ask for some sort of tangible evidence to back up these claims, does it not? After all, if I ran into the room and shouted "I have just seen a UFO! I was this close to being abducted!", you might not immediately take my word for it. You might well ask for some evidence, such as a photograph (autographed if possible), or strange alien artifact. You might go to the location where I claim to have seen the spaceship, and inspect it for yourself. You could probably think up a number of alternative explanations for what I said I saw. If I fail to support my claims, why on earth should you take my word for it?

Many of the more common claims that are made to demonstrate the existence of a god seem to be fatally flawed. If you've chatted with theists on the internet, your doorstep, or whereever, you may be familiar with these :

"Look around you! How can you witness the beauty of God-X's Creation and still disbelieve. Look at the trees, the birds, the bunnies!"
What's wrong with this? Several things:

* Many other religions make exactly the same claim. Why is your one special? Surely the trees, bunnies etc. are therefore equally valid proof of the existence of hundreds of other gods? One supernatural explanation is just as valid as any other.
* Unfortunately, everything you describe can also be explained in mundane, rational, scientific terms, without the need to invoke a Creator.
* What about the nasty things in life? Guinea worms, anthrax, mosquitoes; all the blood-sucking, parasitical, disease-bearing, poisonous beasties that kill us and each other in horrific ways? Watched any nature programmes recently?

"Six hundred million people follow my religion. They can't all be wrong - there must be something in it."
What's wrong with this? Several things:

* Nine hundred million people follow religion Z. Are they all wrong? Truth is not democratic - you can't vote for objective reality.
* Maybe they are right. Maybe their god exists as well as your god?
* If they're wrong, couldn't you also be wrong? After all, they seem to believe at least as strongly and sincerely as you do, and for many of the same reasons...

"I have personally witnessed a miracle. I can trust my senses."
What's wrong with this? Several things:

* Lots of people have personally witnessed Elvis working at the Drive-Thru. Should I believe them also? Without any sort of evidence, personal subjective testimony is not very convincing.
* Many people from other religions claim to have witnessed miracles. Does this mean that their God also exists? Just how many Gods are there?
* Are you positive that Divine Intervention is the only possible explanation for what you saw?

"My God is a living God. All those other ones are just ancient myths."
What's wrong with this? Several things:

* Those gods were "living Gods" to the people who believed in them. Zeuss, Odin and Jupiter once had followers every bit as devout as you.
* Many of the "ancient" religions still have active, devout, sincere followers. Just like you. Why should I accept your claims over theirs identical ones?
* How many people claim to worship dead gods?

"We are God's Chosen People."
What's wrong with this? Several things:

* So why doesn't he look after you a bit better? How many of his followers have suffered or died recently? Statistically, are you any better off than followers of other religions?
* Again, the same claim is made by other religions. How do I know they aren't the Chosen Ones?
* So what are the rest of us here for? What about the ones living in remote villages who will live their entire lives without even hearing of your god?

"If the probability of something happening is less than about 1e-15 (or 0.000000000000001) it is considered to be impossible. The probability of life occuring 'by accident' is far less than this, therefore it must be a miracle caused by God.."

What's wrong with this? Several things:

* It ignores the size of the universe. There are hundreds of billions of galaxies, each with hundreds of billions of stars, any of which might have planets capable of supporting life. Even an "impossibly improbable" event is almost a certainty (and we already know of one planet that supports life).

Proof that god doesn't exist.. if there is no logical reason to believe in god... my only conclusion is that peoples minds have yet to ask these questions.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Since when does logic come into the equation? How could it ever? I reiterate; you will never prove or disprove the idea of the supernatural. The idea that you're arrogantly waiting for an individual to persuade you otherwise is laughable.

How can you dismiss logic, believe it or not, that is what you use to come to your conclusions that god exists.
You cannot possibly use anything else... you're using logic, just flawed logic.

 

[Iron]

How can you dismiss logic, believe it or not, that is what you use to come to your conclusions that god exists.
You cannot possibly use anything else... you're using logic, just flawed logic.

The majority of people don't come to conclusions because the can't. They're called agnostics. You cannot prove or disprove the supernatural. You're as bad as the religious nutt jobs with you're 'in your face' atheism. Is there plausable athiest logic that proves no God exists? or do you just leech off the beliefs of others?

 

[beccaxx]

You are all focusing on prooving that he does exist? Is there any concrete proof that he doesnt?

You cant just say its not logical. The idea that an all powerful, supreme being created us may seem illogical, but science doesnt neccessarily offer us anything more logical. How did the universe begin? What was before the beginning? Nothing? How can nothing exist? Was there no beginning? Does time just go on forever? Those type of questions are just as incomprehensible as the idea of an afterlife.

And if the world began with the big bang theory, is it really logical that from complete entropy, the absolute order of the universe was created? Since when did entropy=order?

I know science cant explain everything, and that doesnt necessarily mean we should assume God exists. Just pointing out it cant justify that he doesnt either.

and there u have it. the truth is that noone has solid complete evidence either way which cant be contested by the other side.

 

[thejosiekiller]

Some people have 'faith' that chopping other people's heads off is good for the world, they really truely believe they are on a quest from god.

God is above all including your human reasoning? Why is he? Where did your beliefs come from? Do you actually believe you came up with these beliefs on your own....


Tell this to the jehovas witnesses who honestly believe that god will be comming in their generation, untill they're 80, looking out the window and seeing other young guns who think god is comming back in their generation...

first of all that is their faith- what we see in them to be wrong like u say they see in us as victims of decadence and capatilism. they see us imperialistic war mongerers who cowardly tust politicains who use laser guided boms to kill families based on intelligence

i didnt come up with these beliefs on my own - its my perception on life and god and to say u trust science more than ur own heart to me is stupid......but in the end i know i cant convince u or should i even try to make u realise god is more powerful than u can ever know

ur problem is ur thinking logically on a matter that requires faith- human logic ni this instance cant help because we are nowhere near capable of ever understanding if there is what is the purpose of it all.

and u can mock jehovas witnesses- but it has nothing to do with me, their faith that god will come in this lifetime cannot be unproved because its highly unlikely human beings will ever be in a position to prove whether god exists

u have to accept u cant reason this thru science or mocking other religions, ur knowledge is what u have to accpet- thing is it can change

 

[Not-That-Bright]

The proof FOR a god being easy enough to dismiss i think makes it fairly easy to come to the conclusion that there is no god.
Where once here have you seen an argument by a theist that hasn't been met with some interesting questions that basically disprove it from all human logic...
The only answers that i can't proove to a certain extent are wrong are those that claim that god is above logic. I won't even attempt.

 

[Danoz The Great]

It's not a matter of what EVERYONE belives - it's a matter of what YOU believe.

Personally, I believe that the Bible was a fairytale story 2000 years ago and it's just been manipulated to be real. I'm in school right now in religion class so I think i'll go before I get into sh!t from my teacher

 

[Not-That-Bright]

i didnt come up with these beliefs on my own - its my perception on life and god and to say u trust science more than ur own heart to me is stupid

So you haven't been influenced by religions at all?
I do not like using science... i have tried NOT to use science, i'm using logic.

......but in the end i know i cant convince u or should i even try to make u realise god is more powerful than u can ever know

And you know how powerful he is how? or do you just know that he is more powerful than we can ever know? where did you get this idea from?

ur problem is ur thinking logically on a matter that requires faith- human logic ni this instance cant help

I agree, obviously it's ok to forget about logic.. (which you DID use to come to your decision that god exists) and just believe in something for the sake of belief.

because we are nowhere near capable of ever understanding if there is what is the purpose of it all.

I gave you a perspective on what the 'point of it all' could be, i guess i'm pretty god-like eh?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

It's not a matter of what EVERYONE belives - it's a matter of what YOU believe.

Ok.. the purpose of this thread is to challenge people's beliefs... be they theist, atheist or agnostic.

 

[JayWalker]

Ok.. the purpose of this thread is to challenge people's beliefs... be they theist, atheist or agnostic.

did you take a look at my post??

 

[JayWalker]

Wow... someone actually posted a reason, or at least the closest thing to a reason on this thread. Actually the point sounds like a fearful appeal to ignorance really - "we don't know what caused it, so it must be God!", but anyway, here is something that addresses that point:


"There's no reason to suppose a God exists simply because the Universe does. Yes, the start of the Cosmos is a mystery. So what? Powered flight used to be a mystery - up until the Wright brothers decided Kitty Hawk would be a nice place for an airstrip. This is commonly called the God of the Gaps Syndrome: there is a mystery which is so far unexplained by science. Priests everywhere rejoice, and proclaim that said mystery proves God. It's very strange how God keeps leaping from place to place every six months as scientists make new discoveries."

Saying that the existence of the Universe proves the existence of God is a fallacy (question-begging) --

1. Everything except God has a cause.
2. The universe is not God.
3. Therefore, the universe has a cause.

Or, if you like --

1. Everything had a cause, and every cause is the effect of a previous cause.
2. Something must have started it all.
C. God is the first cause, the unmoved mover, the creator and sustainer of the universe.

"What caused God? What many people suggest that it is reasonable to believe in God because it solves a mystery: that of who, or what, caused the universe to come into being. However, it just replaces one mystery with another."

I simply states points supporting the existance of god, and Not-That-Bright is still yet to answer me...

 

[Not-That-Bright]

im fairly sure i replied to all of your posts... at least that i read?

 

[omg_a]

I'm all for logical arguments, except you have to be prepared to accept your logic may prove something you don't believe. has anyone studied philosophy? namesly, St Thomas Aquinas' proof of the existence of God? i don't agree with it because i think the first assumption (that god is the greatest being in the world) can be rejected. however, it follows on to prove that God must exist. it's an interesting type of proof which isn't empirically based. i think so many people have to have cold hard evidence, and this limits their ability to be persuaded or to persuade other people.

as a note-i am an atheist, because of a wgole variety of events over my lifetime, i ont believe in God, and I am not in any way religious. there is a bonus-i can exclaim oh my god without feeling like i have sinned!

 

[JayWalker]

oh and Moonlight:
""we don't know what caused it, so it must be God!" you used this as a negative example, are you aware that man kind discovered neutrons, neutrino's, electrons and radio waves by using this same method of thinking, as it is the only piece of the puzzle that fits...