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Does God Exist? (5 Viewers)

mugrug

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I must say that while religion has served it's purposes and given us great art and culture (and taken away from it also) we no longer need faith in abhigher beaing to have a new renaissance of thought and expression.

Faith in self and faith in man is the new religion... and we even have our own religious texts... An extract of what has been called "profound atheism":

"Whither is God" he cried. "I shall tell you. We have killed him—you and I. All of us are his murderers. But how have we done this? How are we able to drink up the sea? Who gave us the sponge to wipe away the entire horizon? What did we do when we unchained the earth from its sun? Whither is it moving now? Whither are we moving now? Away from all suns? Are we not plunging continually? Backward, sideward, forward, in all directions? Is there any up or down left? Are we not straying as through an infinite nothing? Do we not feel the breath of empty space? Has it not become colder? Is not night and more night coming on all the while? Must not lanterns be lit in the morning? Do we not hear anything yet of the noise of the gravediggers who are burying God? Do we not smell anything yet of God’s decomposition? Gods too decompose. God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. How shall we, the murderers of all murderers, comfort ourselves? What was holiest and most powerful of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives. Who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must not we ourselves become Gods simply to seem worthy of it? There has never been a greater deed; and whoever will be born after us—for the sake of this deed he will be part of a higher history than all history hithertoo.

Here the madman fell silent and looked again at his listeners; and they too were silent and stared at him in astonishment. At last he threw his lantern on the ground, and it broke and went out. "I come too early," he said then; "my time has not come yet. This tremendous event is still on its way, still wandering—it has not yet reached the ears of man. Lightning and thunder require time, the light of the stars requires time, deeds require time even after they are done, before they can be seen and heard. This deed is still more distant from them than the most distant stars—and yet they have done it themselves."

-Nietzsche in the story of "The Madman" from "The Gay Science."

Profound. It speaks volumes to me, it offeres questions without answers. A profound nihlism without the comfort of answers from your gods.

Do not confuse atheism with being without faith. I have great faith. I just don't place it in some metaphysical nameless being with a million definitions while leaving nothing tangible.

If God appeared beforeme today I would accept his/her/its/their existance. I suppose that just makes me a cynical agnostic ;) But until that point I reject your beliefs and even if I saw God to be real I would still reject your flawed and hateful religious institutions.

I spit at organised religion, christianty, and the church. If you follow their doctrine rather than your own sense of faith (with which there is nothing wrong, I just don't feel the same) then I spit at you. Have faith by all means. propogate the conformist and restrictive values of the church and then you'll find me in direct opposition with such "faith." Faith should be a personal thing, not organised for simplicity.
 

Sophie777

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Beaky said:
Stuff about stuff

http://www.victorzammit.com/book/index.html
http://www.clm.org/real/ri9403/evidence.html

EDIT: For the skeptic of prayer

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/prayer.html

Can I ask you a question all atheists. Why are you so interested in the existence of God when you don't believe in the existence of God? Or Should, "Does god exist?" be changed to "I dont believe in God therefore what I say and others say is right no matter how logical an argument may be?"

And I dont understand why this topic is constantly brought up in different threads... can at least one person create a thread that will not be brought up every 3 weeks? And by the end of it comes this whirlwind conclusion- I believe what I originally thought- what a waste of time.

Have fun vulturing my points and mocking them
Because my life is pervaded by annoying christians who love themselves because of their moral righteousness and the belief in their own goodness. Well, you aren't a good person jus because you believe in God!

You asked me a question, I am interested in the existence of God as I am interested in how religious people can have blind faith in something that has no documented evidence for its existence as truth. How religious people can possibly look at their argument and think it is logical? Uh, it isn't. The entire point of religion is throwing logic in the trash can an believing in something as it is easier to do that that fear dying and going to nowhere. The only reason that you aren't swayed by us trying to argue with you is because you a blind to facts, if you allowed yourself to actually listen to the real world and not the one you have created then perhaps you wouldn't be able to believe.

I am amazed at the amount of peoplle who allow themselves to be driven by such a discriiminatory religion as christianity.
 
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MoonlightSonata

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Beaky said:
Stuff about stuff

http://www.victorzammit.com/book/index.html
http://www.clm.org/real/ri9403/evidence.html

EDIT: For the skeptic of prayer

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/prayer.html

Can I ask you a question all atheists. Why are you so interested in the existence of God when you don't believe in the existence of God? Or Should, "Does god exist?" be changed to "I dont believe in God therefore what I say and others say is right no matter how logical an argument may be?"
Um, there are a considerable number of people who are AGNOSTIC.
 

MoonlightSonata

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JayWalker said:
Yes, "God" as we refer to him/her/it exists.
If you study physics for long enough, you'll learn that energy can NOT be created or destroyed, just changed, HOWEVER, this raises the question of how this energy was created in the first place. This would be one reason for the existance of god.
This can be said the same for matter, it cannot be created, hence, somewhere back in time, there must be some event that created energy.

The big bang is not a conclusive theory for the beggining of the universe, as there is a period of indefinity, the idea put forward that there was "potential energy" can be considered valid except for the fact that it has no reference to what it is potential to..

Enjoy :uhhuh: :uhhuh:

-Breakfast time :D:D
Wow... someone actually posted a reason, or at least the closest thing to a reason on this thread. Actually the point sounds like a fearful appeal to ignorance really - "we don't know what caused it, so it must be God!", but anyway, here is something that addresses that point:


"There's no reason to suppose a God exists simply because the Universe does. Yes, the start of the Cosmos is a mystery. So what? Powered flight used to be a mystery - up until the Wright brothers decided Kitty Hawk would be a nice place for an airstrip. This is commonly called the God of the Gaps Syndrome: there is a mystery which is so far unexplained by science. Priests everywhere rejoice, and proclaim that said mystery proves God. It's very strange how God keeps leaping from place to place every six months as scientists make new discoveries."

Saying that the existence of the Universe proves the existence of God is a fallacy (question-begging) --

1. Everything except God has a cause.
2. The universe is not God.
3. Therefore, the universe has a cause.


Or, if you like --

1. Everything had a cause, and every cause is the effect of a previous cause.
2. Something must have started it all.
C. God is the first cause, the unmoved mover, the creator and sustainer of the universe.


"What caused God? What many people suggest that it is reasonable to believe in God because it solves a mystery: that of who, or what, caused the universe to come into being. However, it just replaces one mystery with another."
 

babydoll_

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spell check said:
i don't know enough about science to form a valid opinion

but, the idea of an entity that has no beginning and no end and no physical properties is too hard to comprehend, i can't believe in it without any solid proof and the Bible is certainly not good enough
too lazy to read the other posts, but spell check summed it up quite nicely

people can believe in whatever, i dont care. i just choose not to believe in the notion of a 'god'
 

Sophie777

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Well that is a useless comment considering the only question people are asking you is to give some sort of reasoning behind it. You can't believe he exists for no reason.
 

Sophie777

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In your opinion. To me, he is only above human reasoning because of how unrealistic and impossible it is to actually reason his existence.
 

thejosiekiller

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Sophie777 said:
In your opinion. To me, he is only above human reasoning because of how unrealistic and impossible it is to actually reason his existence.
i think ur an atheist!

how can u have a belief when u say its impossible!

and its not impossible btw, its called faith for a reason, its above our understanding and science and always will be

god is god is the argument that always wins despite ur doubts he still exists cause he is above all
 

Sophie777

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God exists just because he does can never win. I look forward to everybody seeing when they die that there is nothing there.

By the way, I already explained that I believe in something creating the world even if it is the big bang. I don't believe in the possibility of an organised religion being correct. The organisation of these beliefs are and were a means by which to explain the unexplainable prior to modern logic and scientific understanding. God is not 'higher or greater' than science, he can't be explained by science because it is impossible in human logic that such a person could exist. I don't know why you find it so hard to understand.
 

Sophie777

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Your argument has no substance. Your argument that God exists because he is above human reasoning is not an argument. You are avoiding the real issue here, that there is no concrete evidence as to his existence.
 

Sophie777

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Religious people find it so intimidating having their beliefs questioned. But it is alright for me to have your mindless christian preaching babble shoved down my throat. Wake up to yourselves and actually live by the principles that you say you do. Listen to others instead of refuting an argument with the same points all the time.
 

thejosiekiller

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i dont think ur understanding- do u understand the concept of faith

if u believe in the impossibler then why do u demand things be proved for it to be real? just because u cant feel or see something doesnt mean it doesnt exist

and my argument that god is above human understanding is acceptable, since even u said "to explain the unexplainable prior to modern logic and scientific understanding"- that is correct i doubt the organised religions as well, but it cant possibly in essence discredit god in anyway

the argument is we are not on the same level as him- u can wait for proof ur whole life and not understand the most important things in life are intangible

"God exists just because he does can never win. I look forward to everybody seeing when they die that there is nothing there." that meakes no sense in the first part, and the second part is not what god is about at all- life is not about waiting to die to see if god exists

ur proof is wrong
 

Not-That-Bright

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why is it that you guys choose not to face my questions when i ask them, give me your reasons for believing in god and i'll give you my answer... don't just walk away from that and start on some other reason...

Yes, "God" as we refer to him/her/it exists.
If you study physics for long enough, you'll learn that energy can NOT be created or destroyed, just changed, HOWEVER, this raises the question of how this energy was created in the first place. This would be one reason for the existance of god.
This can be said the same for matter, it cannot be created, hence, somewhere back in time, there must be some event that created energy.

The big bang is not a conclusive theory for the beggining of the universe, as there is a period of indefinity, the idea put forward that there was "potential energy" can be considered valid except for the fact that it has no reference to what it is potential to..

Enjoy
In a universe as large as ours... these occurances are not that unlikely,
also the argument of 'look how amazing nature is! God must have mad it' is easy to dismiss...because

my answer to that is...Many other religions make exactly the same claim. Why is your one special? Surely the trees, bunnies etc. are therefore equally valid proof of the existence of hundreds of other gods? One supernatural explanation is just as valid as any other.

If you want to claim that all religions pray to the same 'God' somehow, then i ask you this.. why is there such an emphasis on being one religion or the other? you're all praying to the same god apparently.... Why do the religious scripts talk badly of the other religions... are we just to forget these sections? what is your basis for forgetting them?

Can I ask you a question all atheists. Why are you so interested in the existence of God when you don't believe in the existence of God? Or Should, "Does god exist?" be changed to "I dont believe in God therefore what I say and others say is right no matter how logical an argument may be?"
We're giving you all a chance to reply...
Wow... crazy religious pseudo science, why is it that you will accept one scientific explanation that supports religion and won't support one that does not?
 

Iron

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We will NEVER know whether God exists or not. Admittedly, that's no reason to believe, but it's a damn good reason to stop these ridiculous threads.
 

Sophie777

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There is no afterlife. You aren't going to a happy place, so you may aswell just live. There is no greater logic 'greater than human kind' like all the amateur 'adam and eve' fairy tales in the bible.

Don't be scared.


You don't have to get upset at the fact that I may be more right that you. To believe something that you can't see is stupid. Even the wind, we can see the effects of that. Even abstract concepts like love and hate, we can see the effects of them. But you can't prove that God created this world beyond logic. I don't argue that somethign doesn't exist. Give it up. If your argument had some substance, I may actually stay and listen. But Id rather study as unlike believing God, I think I might actually try and get into Uni in order to live my myself and others rather than some being that doesn't actually exist.

You think my argument 'god doesn't exist' is wrong. It is exactly the same as yours.
 

Not-That-Bright

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So you're telling me that you came up with your vision of god out of no where, what's so different between that god and any other creature of your imagination?

What made you come up with 'god', are you telling me you don't honestly believe the whole thought was put there by your parents, religious teachings?

the argument is we are not on the same level as him- u can wait for proof ur whole life and not understand the most important things in life are intangible
What are you saying here? all atheists are materialistic? we do not love people?
how is love proof of YOUR god, when so many other religions claim that love is proof of their god :rolleyes:


ur proof is wrong, what makes you think this?
 

thejosiekiller

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to mix science and religion is stupid

physics cant help u find god ever

have faith, its a higher and smarter way to live ur life

how r u ever gonna prove if god exists or which religion is right with science? its not about proving anything cause u cant- god is above all. thats why ur question is stupid in its attempt to make sense of life because we will never know the meaning of life except that we have life and must live it

whehter we meet god or not in the afterlife is another question that we cannot answer- all we can do is believe
 

thejosiekiller

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yeah but sophie ur argument for saying there is no god/after life is because u cant prove it

how in the hell wiull u ever prove it and be happy? will u go thru life waiting for a miracle invention

and to say god is above all is not a fairytale- its a fact....the only proof i can offer is when ur beliefs become fact and u can live with that knowledge or .......take ur example go thru life taking pleasure that life is random and with no meaning


just because u cant understand doesnt make other ppl wrong, it makes u ignorant and annoying to go on about god if u cant even contemplate possibilites beyond what we can explain or even accept
 

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