The Burkha, what do you think? Taliban or Qur'an? (1 Viewer)

[sly fly]

the burqa de-humanises it's wearer.

That isn't true. If a woman freely chooses to wear it then I don't see how that dehumanises her.

 

[tempco]

That isn't true. If a woman freely chooses to wear it then I don't see how that dehumanises her.

to me, that looks pretty dehumanised.

keep in mind that a woman wearing revealing clothes would be considered a sexual object by those around her, and not (usually) by herself.

islam condemns extremism on both ends of the spectrum.

 

[sly fly]

to me, that looks pretty dehumanised.

keep in mind that a woman wearing revealing clothes would be considered a sexual object by those around her, and not (usually) by herself.

islam condemns extremism on both ends of the spectrum.

Perspectives vary. What is dehumanising to yourself may not be to another. If a woman covers herself with a burqa with the intention of modesty and chastity, that isn't dehumanising in my view. Impractical - yes, dehumanising - no. I dont think the woman with the revealing clothes is a fair example because Islam generally encourages chastity and discourages the opposite.

 

[Z_Nizzle]

^
Sly Fly: Despite your intentions (which i believe are most practical) there are a few things that nekkid stated that are very true.

1. Islam by definition is all about modesty. Now this includes aspects of life ranging from (believe it or not) your "tone of delivery of dialogue" to "clothing". So reiterating what nekkid said:
Women's dress in Islamic culture is based on a principle of female modesty. Customs of the time, place, and social class of the woman influence what she might wear. Some options include hijab -- or modest, loose clothing and a scarf over the head and under the chin.

2. I think you have some confusion regarding his second statement about sexual objectification: That if a women chooses to wear clothes that are extremely revealing, then she becomes the OBJECT not the SUBJECT of the masculine gaze. Thus re-affirming the traditional androcentric outlook of the sexual roles in society.

3. The Burka is on the other extreme where the women are completely covered with veils or cloaks when outside their home. Now when we think about it perhaps she is no longer a "sexual" object, but the definition that "she is still an object and not subject" still stands, with altering ramifications.

4. perhaps dehumanising is too strong a word...lets stick to objectification

 

[Rafy]

So why dont males have to cover up?

Surely the ladies find their men attractive?

 

[ogmzergrush]

So why dont males have to cover up?

Surely the ladies find their men attractive?

Men are sex demons, this has already been explained.

 

[tempco]

So why dont males have to cover up?

Surely the ladies find their men attractive?

women look for men who can provide them with money. men look for hot women.

that's why old, rich men match up well with beautiful, young women.

 

[Z_Nizzle]

So why dont males have to cover up?

Surely the ladies find their men attractive?

Either u completely misread or just chose to ignore my earlier statements..."covering up" is clearly not this issue in this circumstance. The issue is what the Qu'ran states. It re- affirms that both men and women must dress modestly:

"Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty: that will make for greater purity for them: And Allah is well acquainted with all that they do." [24:30]

"And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what 'what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms ... " [24:31]

 

[Rafy]

So how come the concept of modesty is interpreted in different ways between the sexes?

 

[Z_Nizzle]

So how come the concept of modesty is interpreted in different ways between the sexes?

how come males have a penis and women have Clitoruos ?

do biological differences account for anything?

 

[Z_Nizzle]

Not in the sense Deus is talking about.

That's absurd. If he was refering to the following verse:

"And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what 'what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms ... "

It is very obvious that males do not have "bosoms"

 

[tempco]

So how come the concept of modesty is interpreted in different ways between the sexes?

men and women aren't the same?

why do men download more porn than women?

 

[Z_Nizzle]

He was saying (I think) that biological differences should account for nothing.

well its very clear that biological differences account for a lot.

 

[sly fly]

^
Sly Fly: Despite your intentions (which i believe are most practical) there are a few things that nekkid stated that are very true.

1. Islam by definition is all about modesty. Now this includes aspects of life ranging from (believe it or not) your "tone of delivery of dialogue" to "clothing". So reiterating what nekkid said:
Women's dress in Islamic culture is based on a principle of female modesty. Customs of the time, place, and social class of the woman influence what she might wear. Some options include hijab -- or modest, loose clothing and a scarf over the head and under the chin.

2. I think you have some confusion regarding his second statement about sexual objectification: That if a women chooses to wear clothes that are extremely revealing, then she becomes the OBJECT not the SUBJECT of the masculine gaze. Thus re-affirming the traditional androcentric outlook of the sexual roles in society.

3. The Burka is on the other extreme where the women are completely covered with veils or cloaks when outside their home. Now when we think about it perhaps she is no longer a "sexual" object, but the definition that "she is still an object and not subject" still stands, with altering ramifications.

4. perhaps dehumanising is too strong a word...lets stick to objectification

1. Your saying that a person's context influences (or should influence) their dress? I agree with this, which is why I said the burqa is impractical.

2. I don't really get your second point.....or perhaps your english is too advanced for me lol

3. How is a woman, who freely chooses to wear a burqa, an object and not a subject?

 

[sly fly]

So why dont males have to cover up?

Surely the ladies find their men attractive?

Islam does have a dress code for men. Obviously it doesn't require them to wear a scarf but they must adhere to certain standards and rules.

 

[Z_Nizzle]

1. Your saying that a person's context influences (or should influence) their dress? I agree with this, which is why I said the burqa is impractical.

2. I don't really get your second point.....or perhaps your english is too advanced for me lol

3. How is a woman, who freely chooses to wear a burqa, an object and not a subject?

1. YUP
2. lol sorry about the confusion. By subject i mean looking beyond ones physical attributes and object is an aesthetic (artistic/ absolute) quality. which is why when something is objectified it ceases to be subject because we can no longer percive or comprehend by just looking at surface qualities....( this is why those hairy feminists are against sexual objectification )
3. ^ think about it....it should make sense.

 

[Z_Nizzle]

There is no point arguing in this thread. Any rational argument is countered by "But Qur'an states...".

I was refering to an earlier criticism. furthermore the title states "The Burkha, what do you think? Taliban or Qur'an?". So it would seem rational that any discussion on an issue related to islam will have points of contention directly relating to the Qu'ran. Afterall it is the Qu'ran that offers Muslims a "complete" way of life.

 

[Z_Nizzle]

Haha, don't worry man, I wasn't speaking to you, I was talking about the thread in general.

aight thas coo.

 

[sly fly]

2. By subject i mean looking beyond ones physical attributes and object is an aesthetic (artistic/ absolute) quality. which is why when something is objectified it ceases to be subject because we can no longer percive or comprehend by just looking at surface qualities.

umm I still dont get it sorry lol. But from what I understood, the second half of the second sentence seems to contradict the first sentence. Arghh I think I should go take some English lessons lol....

 

[Z_Nizzle]

umm I still dont get it sorry lol. But from what I understood, the second half of the second sentence seems to contradict the first sentence. Arghh I think I should go take some English lessons lol....

lol...i cant think of any other way to explain it...