Should Religous Schools Be Shut Down? (1 Viewer)

[Captain Gh3y]

Firstly, Religious schools whether they be Catholic, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist or whatever type, have every right to operate within society.

So how about Scientologist schools? Olympian schools or Jedi schools? What about Satanist schools, tell me what you'd think of them.

This is because they allow people of that Religious denomination to become more in tact with their faith and allow them to grow as whole person.

Wait whose religious faith? The only people I can see who have a religious faith are the parents, children are too young to have a religious faith because they can't understand what that means. So what you mean is "they help parents of that religious denomination to foist their beliefs on children'

Thats not to say Mulsims cant come to Catholic schools or vice versa. I can tell you now Religious schools are just as diverse as an public school. Thus, we grow and learn to appreciate our brothers and sisters from other religious denominations.

Yeah I'm sure a Jewish kid would be made to feel real welcome in a Muslim school, lol.

The common atheist would argue against having religious schools because they obviously don't believe in a divine being greater than us, they tend to be more "I havn't seen God meaning I won't believe in Him" - which is absolutley stupid because that wipes out the whole meaning of Faith.

Hahaha that's the best circular argument I've ever seen... you must be a troll

Do I necessarily hate atheists - no I dont but what I do hate is when they attack religion. If you don't believe in God - don't attack God and put down other members in society.

Well every religion is pretty much a flat out attack on every other religion because they all say that the claims of all the other are BS and each one holds the absolute truth. It's like you're quite happy to carry on about appreciating your brothers and sisters from other religions even though you believe they're satan worshippers who are going to hell, and they believe you're satan worshippers who are going to hell, but you can still appreciate each other because you're both religious. But if someone just goes one religion further and says it's all bullshit then that's attacking?

Next, education in my opinion is much greater at Religious schools because teachers tend to be more experienced, resources more great and the classroom is more lively. This means that Religious schools are very social and interesting to be at.

Argument from pedagogy:
Religious schools have better teachers --> God exists, or
Argument from cashmoney:
Religious schools have more resources --> God exists

Finally, if one says to close down Relgious schools I put just as much as an argument to close down Public schools - see the stupidity in this thread. Just cause someone is not religiously inclined doesn't mean we close the system to suit your needs.

No you don't, you haven't put any argument to close down Public schools... also the thread doesn't say Private schools, just religious ones

I am proud of going to a Religious school as it affirms my beliefs, makes me a better person in the eithics and values taught and it allows me to grow as a whole person. Thus, the education is great, the teachers are great and the students are great!

Could you not also grow as a person without believing myths? D:

 

[nick3157]

Firstly, Religious schools whether they be Catholic, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist or whatever type, have every right to operate within society. This is because they allow people of that Religious denomination to become more in tact with their faith and allow them to grow as whole person. Thats not to say Mulsims cant come to Catholic schools or vice versa. I can tell you now Religious schools are just as diverse as an public school. Thus, we grow and learn to appreciate our brothers and sisters from other religious denominations.

The common atheist would argue against having religious schools because they obviously don't believe in a divine being greater than us, they tend to be more "I havn't seen God meaning I won't believe in Him" - which is absolutley stupid because that wipes out the whole meaning of Faith. Do I necessarily hate atheists - no I dont but what I do hate is when they attack religion. If you don't believe in God - don't attack God and put down other members in society.

Next, education in my opinion is much greater at Religious schools because teachers tend to be more experienced, resources more great and the classroom is more lively. This means that Religious schools are very social and interesting to be at.

Finally, if one says to close down Relgious schools I put just as much as an argument to close down Public schools - see the stupidity in this thread. Just cause someone is not religiously inclined doesn't mean we close the system to suit your needs.

I am proud of going to a Religious school as it affirms my beliefs, makes me a better person in the eithics and values taught and it allows me to grow as a whole person. Thus, the education is great, the teachers are great and the students are great!

This thread has absolutely nothing to do with religious (or athesist) hate or even religion itself - it's about the segregation that is caused by splitting everyone up and sending them to schools full of people of the same culture. And I have no idea how you came to the conclusion that the education and the teachers at religious schools are any better than in the public system - it smacks of "my teacher is better because they are religious" and any rational thinker knows that that is a weak and invalid argument. I still don't accept that a religous school can be more diverse than the public system - how can a school who identifies its culture in the school name ever truly accept and embrace people of a different one? Instead of getting defensive about your religion and attacking other people who you disagree with, read the thread, and understand that this actually has more to do with racism than religion.

 

[Hollieee]

I'm having trouble understanding why people here who are supposedly content with their own beliefs are still trying to justify what they believe and convince others that they're right.
If you feel in yourself that you believe whats right for you, why should you have to justify that. As long as you're not hurting anybody.

Oh, and by the way, I happen to go to a religious school, but there are quite a few people from different cultures and religions too, believe it or not. Most are actually athiest, as it's apparently uncool to be a religious teenager.

And to ghey, parents have a right to bring their children up in the way that they feel is the best for the child. I fully reserve the right to guide my child in the way I feel is right, but let it decide things for him or herself when they feel they're ready. Children need guidance, because they're not adults. I don't think its about parents foisting their beliefs on children. When children grow to be adults, nobody is holding a gun to their head telling them they must believe what their parents believe. These things are individual decisions.
I'm not really explaining this as well as I would have liked, but my point is, why shouldn't parents teach their children what they believe? Clearly they believe it because they think they're right?

Quite exciting, I think.
How so many people believe so many different things.
I think we all head in the same direction, but just take different paths to get there, perhaps.

 

[ur_inner_child]

It is perfectly possible to grow up in a religious lifestyle without having it at school.

All this talk about what atheists think, and "how would you like it if we shut down public schools" is quite ridiculous. This isn't meant to be a huge war against religious types and atheists. It is about what place religious schools have in society and whether or not they shelter their students in any degree.

Personally, I have had christians unable to handle the fact that I was atheist. Or unable to handle a general support for homosexuality, or act around homosexuals. (One guy from a christian school refused to stay over at a gay guy's house who had a party in the first year of uni because he thought it was "inappropriate" due to his sexuality, despite him sleeping on the couch).

I realise this isn't the case for every kid that graduates from a religious school, but with such an experience, I'm leaning towards yes, to some kind of degree, religious schools shelter their students.

It is not about what religious schools teach or worship, it is about their segregation from those who do not share the same beliefs.

I'm really apathetic, since it's entirely conceptual, but I don't want people missing the whole point of this thread.

 

[Captain Gh3y]

You need to break this down into two distinct things:

1) How parents bring up their children

2) What an education which is essentially controlled by the state teaches children.

I don't think they need to agree with one another.

When children grow to be adults, nobody is holding a gun to their head telling them they must believe what their parents believe.

But what you learn and come to believe (like actually, truly believe to the extent that influences your actions and decision making) as a child is just as powerful as a gun to the head, like.

 

[KFunk]

When children grow to be adults, nobody is holding a gun to their head telling them they must believe what their parents believe. These things are individual decisions.

As Gh3y pointed out, it's not that simple. If a candidate truth is taught as unquestionable thoughout childhood then it might not be possible for people to reject belief in that 'truth' later in life. This process is made even more difficult if people aren't taught critical reflection skills (such as might come from an education in logic and scientific method - and it should be clear that ideological disputes relevent to the current discussion arise at even this early stage).

You might have noticed that individuals' values, in general (counter-examples can be found, of course, but it is the general trend which is important here), are closely aligned with those of their dominant cultural upbringing. Chance alone can't account for this correlation. Thus it would seem that upbringing has a strong causal effect on the beliefs one later possesses.

 

[GinoIs]

Couldn't be bothered reading the whole thread.
And I'm sorry if someone has already said this but...

The gov. won't be able to cope if there's no private schools. And therefore there's Religious private schools.

 

[ur_inner_child]

Couldn't be bothered reading the whole thread.
And I'm sorry if someone has already said this but...

The gov. won't be able to cope if there's no private schools. And therefore there's Religious private schools.

Conceptually though? Oh and please do read the whole thread, it's not that long, not as long as others.

Or at least the first post.

 

[Captain Gh3y]

I must admit, I feel sorry for Jehovah's kids. They aren't allowed to believe in dinosaurs (Which existed: fact), because their parents are fundies.

Which means those kids never got to play with dinosaurs as children. That just sucks.

they'd be pretty cut about Raptor Jesus

 

[GinoIs]

Conceptually though? Oh and please do read the whole thread, it's not that long, not as long as others.

Or at least the first post.

I'm sorry.

 

[ur_inner_child]

I didn't mean that to sound like a moderator lashing. It was a very light hearted "oh please do!" sort of thing. But do tell us what you think anyway.

 

[Slidey]

And im not against religous headwear in schools etc. I don't think it does any harm to anyone and it's just another exposure to another facet of a different culture - a good thing.

I'd prefer if girls didn't wear towels on their heads whilst at school.

Just as I'd prefer if kids didn't wear hats at school and in class.

 

[michikochan]

I think this is a great post, my modern teacher brings it up all the time.

I think the beauty of public education is that everyone is just sort of thrown in together regardless of socio-economic, religious, intellectual differences you know?? I suppose students at public schools are just so exposed to that you have an automatic acceptance to cultural differences like that.

I think its a bit harsh to say that religious schools schould be shut down, people have the right to worship. I think the bg difference is that the government shouldnt financially support religious (and private) schools because if the parents feel they want their kids to have that much of a religious based education they should pay for that choice. Government funding allows so many more of these sorts of schools to develop which then, as you say, causes segregation in society.

Australia is so uniquely multi-cultural and accepting of its cultural diversity, it would be a shame to see it all disappear because of grass-roots education...

-Annaxx

 

[RemoO]

Oh I dunno. Something tells me that more than a few people out there would have a problem with a muslim school being built in their neighbourhood though.

yeh racist people,,how come for a muslim school to open it has to go through protests, media and one million other things.
you dont see muslims complaining about other religions opening what they want.. from my experiences i think their appreciative of where there living but some people are always there to ruin it but that comes under a whole diff. topic.

Would you have a problem living near a muslim school? Out of curiousity? After all, as a child of migrant parents, all I hear is "assimilate this" and "embrace that".

no i definately wouldnt,,ive been going to a private school all my life were it accepted many different backgrounds were people from melb. and perth were coming to our school no one picked on one another..and now i go to a public school students who would like to defend their religion have no clue what their religion is all about at times..
yeh assimilate this n embrace that every religion has its own beliefs,, their parents want whats best for their children from what they know and believe..and thats not just for muslims many other religions too.

It's not really about what they can or can't do. You can still uphold religious values within a public school. It is more about segregation and shelteredness.

if it isnt about what they can and cant do then why would people have an issue of a muslim school being built in their area..arent muslims humans shouldnt they have a right like any other religion..
yeh you can uphold religious values in a public school but its different.

Having said this, I just want you to know that I see this thread is entirely conceptual. Shutting down religious schools is very unrealistic.

yeah i definately agree its very unrealisitic =]

 

[Sarah160]

Um, just throwing it out there but with all these arguments about children being forced to believe in a God before they are capable of doing so blah blah blah, what about forcing a child to believe that it is all complete and utter nonsense? Isn't that the same thing?


I've been to both public schools and currently a religious school and i don't feel that i'm missing out on the multicultural aspect of Australian life. We have individuals of a variety of cultural and social backgrounds at my school and tolerance of other religions/races is completely encouraged.


Also, the religious education provides a forum for discussion and debate. It doesn't force students to believe anything, rather it encourages them to question what they are being told about ANY form of belief, and to formulate their own judgements and opinions. In fact, we even study a unit where we research the major world religions completely impartially, where only the beliefs of the various religions are presented without judgement from the teachers. Honestly, i don't see how it can be considered a bad thing to be provided with the freedom to discuss religion in schools, and i hardly think that it should be a taboo subject.


In any case, what right do you think that you have to tell parents that they can't provide their child with the education they want to? It is completely ludicrous, and after all this talk of tolerance and whatnot i think it is also somewhat hypocritical. I intend to send my children to a religious school, to ensure they are regular church goers and to raise them with a strong christian influence, how that can be construed as child abuse is, to me, quite comical and reflective of the ridiculousness of many ideals in our society.


I don't mean to sound like a religious nut, however i think that the barrage of insults and ridicule directed at religion of any form is ridiculous, and the belief that religious schools should be banned is just another step in that direction...So yeah, please don't attack any of my beliefs, however by all means correct anything that you think is misleading, i'm more than happy to discuss

 

[Captain Gh3y]

Um, just throwing it out there but with all these arguments about children being forced to believe in a God before they are capable of doing so blah blah blah, what about forcing a child to believe that it is all complete and utter nonsense? Isn't that the same thing?

No, because the latter is true while the former is both false and dangerous.

Also, paragraphs.

 

[Sarah160]

Lol, okay there paragraphs now exist.

How can you say definitively that there is no God, and that religion is rubbish? That is your belief and fair enough if that's the belief that you present to your children, but it's still brainwashing them to believe something that may, in fact, be incorrect.

Also, what exactly is it about religious belief that you consider dangerous?

 

[meexa]

In my opinion you're being hypocritical if you're aiming for a 'multicultural society'. To ban religious schools would be discriminatory. Wouldn't a multicultural society embrace many cultures, which would include their religion, and allow the free interaction of these cultures without intolerant behaviour? I understand what you're saying about exposing everyone at an early age but it shouldn't mean keeping them from being able to practice their religion and incorporate it into their lives. Some families who are active in their religion want their children to remain strong in their faith and placing them in a religious school would help them in knowing about their religion, as they spend most of their time in school. Religious schools are not JUST about being exclusive. They don't ENCOURAGE discrimination and intolerance in society, nor are they the cause of it. I don't know how we can lessen, if not eliminate, racism in our society completely; I simply can't come up with the perfect full-proof solution. But I believe that if all cultures in our country have equal importance, in other words, we don't have a dominant culture - like the Anglo-Saxon culture that we have today - , and minority cultures embrace the fact that they now live in a multicultural society and don't feel alienated then racism will not be an issue in our country.

 

[nick3157]

People are still missing the point a bit here. This isn't about interfering in any way about people's beliefs. Nor is it about removing religion from schools or society itself. It's about things like what ur inner child talked about:

It is perfectly possible to grow up in a religious lifestyle without having it at school.

It is about what place religious schools have in society and whether or not they shelter their students in any degree.

Personally, I have had christians unable to handle the fact that I was atheist. Or unable to handle a general support for homosexuality, or act around homosexuals. (One guy from a christian school refused to stay over at a gay guy's house who had a party in the first year of uni because he thought it was "inappropriate" due to his sexuality, despite him sleeping on the couch).

 

[Slidey]

How can you say definitively that there is no God, and that religion is rubbish?

Pretty easily.