Save sex? (2 Viewers)

[Not-That-Bright]

no, I'm an angel.

Shut up bitch.

 

[UnIqUe_PrInCeSs]

make me, dickhead.

 

[BradCube]

Then how can you justify that some people go to prison whereas others go free? If we're all equally bad to you, why aren't we either all free or all in prison?

I think your moral compass is a little confused.

I can justify this because I can agree that a worldy system must punish according to the degree of consequences resulting from an illegal act.

This system of sin that I am referring to (whereby we are all sinful) is not designed to be dealt with this side of life however.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I can justify this because I can agree that a worldy system must punish according to the degree of consequences resulting from an illegal act.

This system of sin that I am referring to (whereby we are all sinful) is not designed to be dealt with this side of life however.

So you don't feel that all people are equally bad, you just think that god considers all people equally bad? You disagree with God?

If you agree with God, then how can you agree with a worldly system that punishes people for being 'bad' while knowing that ultimately they are no worse than yourself? If I thought that all the people behind prison were equally as bad as me, then I would not support their punishment while I recieve none.

I don't think you really do feel that all people are equally bad, the scripture and the church tells you that all are equally bad but when you read about a child rapist you do not consider yourself his moral equal.

 

[BradCube]

So you don't feel that all people are equally bad, you just think that god considers all people equally bad? You disagree with God?

I do feel that we are all equally sinful, which means I am in agreement with God. This does not mean however that all sins have the same impact on victims, and it is because of this that we have law in our society. Without law to judge the severity of punishments fairly, we would turn to anarchy.

If you agree with God, then how can you agree with a worldly system that punishes people for being 'bad' while knowing that ultimately they are no worse than yourself?

Because I believe that Gods judgement and real punishment does not occur in this life, but after it.

I don't think you really do feel that all people are equally bad, the scripture and the church tells you that all are equally bad but when you read about a child rapist you do not consider yourself his moral equal.

On the contrary. You may be suprised to find that I honestly believe that I am just as guilty of sin as the child rapist.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

This does not mean however that all sins have the same impact on victims, and it is because of this that we have law in our society.

This was meant to be about morals. How is it morally right to punish one person who is no worse than anyone else, just because of their impact on their victims.

Without law to judge the severity of punishments fairly, we would turn to anarchy.

Perhaps so, but does that make it morally right?

Because I believe that Gods judgement and real punishment does not occur in this life, but after it.

But you believe that his morals are absolute, so of course you agree with them. I am asking you whether you think their punishment by other sinners is moral.

On the contrary. You may be suprised to find that I honestly believe that I am just as guilty of sin as the child rapist.

You get this feeling don't you sometimes. You hate the child rapist, you think he's a dispicable creature, right? Do you get that feeling? Whether or not you believe that you are equal of sin I doubt you consider yourself as morally bad of a person, otherwise you'd also hate yourself.

 

[BradCube]

This was meant to be about morals.

In a worldy system though, this is not so much about morals, since it is rare that anyone would hold the belief that absolute morailty does exist.

How is it morally right to punish one person who is no worse than anyone else, just because of their impact on their victims.

It is morally justifiable because God knows that for systems to exist on earth crimes must be dealt with punishments. The crimes with the greatest negative consequence are given the greatest punishment.

I am asking you whether you think their punishment by other sinners is moral.

If the punishment is done as a disiplinary measure (ie not revenge) and within the confines of what the God regards as sin (ie murder) then it is morally justifiable to punish. It is the same as a parents smacking their child because they have mis-behaved.

You get this feeling don't you sometimes. You hate the child rapist, you think he's a dispicable creature, right? Do you get that feeling? Whether or not you believe that you are equal of sin I doubt you consider yourself as morally bad of a person, otherwise you'd also hate yourself.

You assume here that I do hate the child rapist when in fact I do not. I do not like the act he may have committed but this does not have a bearing on the character of a person. If it did then I would also hate myself like you pointed out. Instead, while I am dissapointed with myself and the mistakes I make, it doesn't stop me from trying to change and be better.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

In a worldy system though, this is not so much about morals, since it is rare that anyone would hold the belief that absolute morailty does exist.

You do tho and I'm trying to find out about your moral stance.

It is morally justifiable because God knows that for systems to exist on earth crimes must be dealt with punishments.

So God has essentially two sets of morals. On the one hand, you're all sinners. But on the other hand, he's willing to allow mortal's to live their mortal lives and essentially decide for themselves what punishment's should be granted (on earth) for what sins?

If the punishment is done as a disiplinary measure (ie not revenge) and within the confines of what the God regards as sin (ie murder) then it is morally justifiable to punish.

So do you believe the inquisition was a moral event? I can see how it is by this concept of morality, whereas many would disagree with you.

You are assume here that I do hate the child rapist when in fact I do not. I do not like the act he may have committed but this does not have a bearing on the character of a person.

What is a person then if not the sum of their thoughts/actions/beliefs ?

 

[KeypadSDM]

If we live by our own moral compass, we have no basis to tell whether we are "good" or "bad" people other then that of our own selves. This means that it is not possible to make distinctions between good or bad people, because everyone runs on a different compass.

We live in a society of people, we have laws which dictate our moral standings. We don't need a superlative [God] in order to define good and bad, we just need a comparative [Other People].

On the contrary. You may be suprised to find that I honestly believe that I am just as guilty of sin as the child rapist.

So then why postpone sex? If you're just as guilty, you'll have to repent just as much as before [everyone being equally sinful and all]. If you really think like that you're pretty fucked up because it allows you to do anything with no guilt, as there's no 'increase' in sin for any act, nor any decrease.

This is all annulled if you're a child rapist, so logically that's what anyone must conclude.

Ergo, BradCube is either illogical, a child rapist or both.

What is a person then if not the sum of their thoughts/actions/beliefs ?

This, I believe, is what everyone's thinking. So Brad, what is it?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

If we live by our own moral compass, we have no basis to tell whether we are "good" or "bad" people other then that of our own selves. This means that it is not possible to make distinctions between good or bad people, because everyone runs on a different compass.

See the big thing is... this is what you said earlier, now you've gone on to explain that essentially while the ultimate moral's of God mean that we're all bad. In the mortal world, humans are given discretion about whether to apply punishments etc - So we still don't have this good/bad moral compass.

 

[BradCube]

So God has essentially two sets of morals.

Not two sets of morals, but a delay in his period of judgement. In the mean time measures must be taken to keep the world in order hence law.

On the one hand, you're all sinners.

Correct

But on the other hand, he's willing to allow mortal's to live their mortal lives and essentially decide for themselves what punishment's should be granted (on earth) for what sins?

Also correct. But we must make sure that that we are talking about punishments and not what is regarded as sin. The punishments on earth are designed to be a disiplinary measure to stop chaos and as such don't represent God's real judgement.

So do you believe the inquisition was a moral event? I can see how it is by this concept of morality, whereas many would disagree with you.

I had to look up what you were talking about and I'm still not sure. Do you mean the actual passing of judgement or are you reffering to the tribunal in the Roman Catholic Church? If it is the second, I don't have enough knowledge to answer accurately. Could you give a me a link to where I could find some info?

What is a person then if not the sum of their thoughts/actions/beliefs ?

A soul/entity created by God. This is my view of course, but it is my view of morailty that is coming scrutiny anyway right?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Not two sets of morals, but a delay in his period of judgement. In the mean time measures must be taken to keep the world in order hence law.

Yes ok fine, I'll accept there's this over-riding, absolute morals which don't affect me or you until we're dead. What an odd discussion of morals? How does this help us in our reality which we are existing in now?

I had to look up what you were talking about and I'm still not sure. Do you mean the actual passing of judgement or are you reffering to the tribunal in the Roman Catholic Church? If it is the second, I don't have enough knowledge to answer accurately. Could you give a me a link to where I could find some info?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisition

People went around punishing people for comitting sin which they believed was adversely affecting both their lives and the lives of others.

A soul/entity created by God. This is my view of course, but it is my view of morailty that is coming scrutiny anyway right?

So a person is JUST a soul/entity created by God? They are nothing more than that? Why does god then judge me based on my acts?

 

[BradCube]

We live in a society of people, we have laws which dictate our moral standings. We don't need a superlative [God] in order to define good and bad, we just need a comparative [Other People].

Don't forget that I am not trying to argue whether absolute morality exists or not, but rather the implications if they do.

So then why postpone sex? If you're just as guilty, you'll have to repent just as much as before [everyone being equally sinful and all].

While I am just as guilty, does not mean that forgiveness cannot make a way through. It is because of forgiveness that I have reason for repentance and hence seek to change my ways.

If you really think like that you're pretty fucked up because it allows you to do anything with no guilt, as there's no 'increase' in sin for any act, nor any decrease.

It doesn't not let me do anything with no guilt, since I know I should be doing what is right. While I can commit more sinful acts, this does not make me anymore guilty since I am completely guilty in the first place. Again, the only way this guilt can be removed is through forgiveness and Gods punishment being placed on someone else (ie Jesus)

Ergo, BradCube is either illogical

Possibley

a child rapist or both.

A child rapist? No. Equally guilty? yes

 

[BradCube]

Yes ok fine, I'll accept there's this over-riding, absolute morals which don't affect me or you until we're dead. What an odd discussion of morals? How does this help us in our reality which we are existing in now?

It helps us in our reality now, since while the punishment for absolute morality may not affect us until death, the choices we make which dictate that punishment are in this life now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisition

People went around punishing people for comitting sin which they believed was adversely affecting both their lives and the lives of others.

I may have to get back to you on this. I'm too tired at the moment and woudn't be able to take it in properly if I tired.

So a person is JUST a soul/entity created by God? They are nothing more than that? Why does god then judge me based on my acts?

Maybe I am mis-understanding you but God can judge you based on your actions because the soul/entity he has created has the ability to make indepandant choice.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

It helps us in our reality now, since while the punishment for absolute morality may not affect us until death, the choices we make which dictate that punishment are in this life now.

So you're saying you live a moral life due to fear of punishment when you die? How is a person moral when the only reason someone is not doing something is because they fear punishment? Surely God knows that you're just tricking him?

Maybe I am mis-understanding you but God can judge you based on your actions because the soul/entity he has created has the ability to make indepandant choice.

You said a person is just a soul/entity, if this is all that they are then their actions mean nothing. Clearly in God's eyes their actions do.

 

[KeypadSDM]

While I am just as guilty, does not mean that forgiveness cannot make a way through. It is because of forgiveness that I have reason for repentance and hence seek to change my ways.

What's the point in changing your ways? They're just as guilty/sinful.

Here's my point: Why define a term guilt/sin when it's constant, why do you keep referring to it at all? Is there some reason other than guilt/sin that you're repenting for? Because it's moronic to repent for something you can never overcome.

Let's call the variable in your status BLARG. So basically when you commit rape, BLARG -= 10. But when you pray, BLARG += 2. So you've just got to pray 5 times to counterract [recieve forgiveness for] the rape.

What is your BLARG? Because it's not guilt/sin.

Brogan, is this you flaming? Because no one's this illogical.

You said a person is just a soul/entity, if this is all that they are then their actions mean nothing. Clearly in God's eyes their actions do.

Continuing: Otherwise why would God make our existance so in the first place? Ergo, we are defined by the choices we make, the freedom God allowed us to have.

 

[LynH1326]

I believe that if you can fully trust your other half then it's alright, just as long as they both agree to the act and its consequences and are emotionally and physically ready (and financially if you want to have children!).

Marriage is no safe-guard against diseases which may or may not have been picked up sexually and nor is it an excuse for forcing your partner into having sex. In 1985, rape in marriage became an idictable offence.

Having a choice is what matters. You can choose to get married (I sure do one day), and you can choose not to. You can choose to be married and have sex or not. Marriage is more about supporting emotionally, financially and physically, not necessarialy procreation. It says this in the Marriage Act as well as the Family Law Act.

Power to those who make the right decisions for themselves, may it be saving yourself for marriage or otherwise.

 

[BradCube]

So you're saying you live a moral life due to fear of punishment when you die? How is a person moral when the only reason someone is not doing something is because they fear punishment? Surely God knows that you're just tricking him?

Fear of punishment may not be the main reason, although I am sure that it plays a factor. The main motivation for me though is that it is possible to have a stonger relationship with God if you are living in agreement with him, and secondly the outcomes of following Gods absolute morality seem to be more benificial than that of doing what I want.

So in this regard the relevence that absolute morality has today is that it increases a reltionship with God and, in my opinion, has more benificial outcomes for my life here now.

You said a person is just a soul/entity, if this is all that they are then their actions mean nothing. Clearly in God's eyes their actions do.

Please explain why a soul/entity's actions mean nothing when they are present with absolute truth?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Please explain why a soul/entity's actions mean nothing when they are present with absolute truth?

You said that a person is only a soul/entity, their action's mean nothing. So are you saying only to God does a person's actions form a part of their being? I don't quite understand why someone's actions are a part of their being for God, but not for you - Either someone's actions are a part of them - or they're not.

 

[BradCube]

What's the point in changing your ways? They're just as guilty/sinful.

The changed ways are not just as sinful. In fact they are not sinful at all since you are repenting and choosing not to live in that sin.

Here's my point: Why define a term guilt/sin when it's constant, why do you keep referring to it at all? Is there some reason other than guilt/sin that you're repenting for? Because it's moronic to repent for something you can never overcome.

Because sin can be overcome. If we are reffering to christian doctrine we know that Jesus never commited sin as a man.

Let's call the variable in your status BLARG. So basically when you commit rape, BLARG -= 10. But when you pray, BLARG += 2. So you've just got to pray 5 times to counterract [recieve forgiveness for] the rape.

What is your BLARG? Because it's not guilt/sin.

This system assumes that it is possible to humanly make up for sins and take it back to a neutral level. Again, if we are looking at christian doctrine (such as the thread starter is a reffering to) then we know that the only way that sin is wiped is through the punishment of death.

Brogan, is this you flaming? Because no one's this illogical.

lol, and no.