Save sex? (1 Viewer)

[azzie]

<3 black books

YESSSS

 

[Namlet]

<3 black books

YESSSS

Haha, Black Books rules.

 

[BradCube]

if you're honest, if you dont cheat and lie, i believe thats what the Bible says. dont sleep around and that kinda thing.

I don't mean to be difficult but the bible does say a lot more then that. So, whilst I not saying your wrong in your beliefs, I am saying that your beliefs are not agreeable to the extent the bible goes to. But you already no this right, so sorry, just wanting to make the distinction.

i have so many christian friends who were preaching the "no sex before marriage" thing until they got into a relationship where they finally had someone they really liked, and then they either slept with the guy or did something "naughty" that they said they'd never do.

I hate things like this. In fact I think everyone does. When some people proclaim their own beliefs, but when it personally happens to them they go back on what they said.

However, just because they have gone back on what they said doesn't make their original statements wrong and it doesn't make them right for doing what they're doing now. I think it is important to keep in mind that there are christians that do keep to their word though. I know one couple who are now engaged, who went out together for 5 years previous and have still not slept together.

 

[azzie]

I don't mean to be difficult but the bible does say a lot more then that. So, whilst I not saying your wrong in your beliefs, I am saying that your beliefs are not agreeable to the extent the bible goes to. But you already no this right, so sorry, just wanting to make the distinction.


I hate things like this. In fact I think everyone does. When some people proclaim their own beliefs, but when it personally happens to them they go back on what they said.

However, just because they have gone back on what they said doesn't make their original statements wrong and it doesn't make them right for doing what they're doing now. I think it is important to keep in mind that there are christians that do keep to their word though. I know one couple who are now engaged, who went out together for 5 years previous and have still not slept together.

But when we think about this... who says what's right and whats wrong in religion? It's all about interpretation of everything that the texts say. If George Bush can say that God is on his side in the "war against terror", then I can believe sex before marriage isn't bad, which, might I add, does not hurt anyone.

I've read the Bible, I've been to a religious school all my life, so yeah. I know the text, I've thought about it and that's my belief. I dunno, it seems a trivial matter to me, saying that I won't get into heaven or that im not as good a person because I've had sex outside of marriage. I don't see it as that kinda issue.

"Right" is a subjective term... I don't think its necessarily "right" to say how right it is for anyone to do anything. Things cannot be analysed in black and white as right and wrong. I believe the best measure of how well you live your life is if you stick to your morals and standards, and do your best to not go back on your word.
This is my problem with those people I know who have slept with people and are hardcore christians. Practice what you preach. They would shout me down when I'd say sex was something that depended on your personality and the person you're with, and now they've gone back on their word and are screwing their partner.

This is also what shits me about every church I've ever been to. Everything is bad and evil and wrong, instead of saying "what this whole thing about is forgiveness and love" and "dont do things that hurt others", rather than commenting on how "bad" and "naughty" people who shag before marriage are. Churches shun more people than they attract. Anti-gay policies, and even worse, the Catholic Churches anti-contraception policies (even in nations, may I add, in which the population is crippled by HIV-AIDS) make me so angry. People preach much more than they practice. If the message Jesus had when he came to earth was forgiveness and love then why are Churches, and some christians, so black and white when it comes to issues in real life?

it REALLY shits me.

 

[azzie]

fire up az

chuck us a beer matty.

 

[BradCube]

But when we think about this... who says what's right and whats wrong in religion? It's all about interpretation of everything that the texts say. If George Bush can say that God is on his side in the "war against terror", then I can believe sex before marriage isn't bad, which, might I add, does not hurt anyone.

Yeah it's all about the interpretation I suppose. But at the end of the day only the right interpretation is going to count right?

I think the bible's opinion on sex before marriage is far more clear then that George bush claiming that God is on his side in the war on terrorism.

I've read the Bible, I've been to a religious school all my life, so yeah. I know the text, I've thought about it and that's my belief. I dunno, it seems a trivial matter to me, saying that I won't get into heaven or that im not as good a person because I've had sex outside of marriage. I don't see it as that kinda issue.

What kind of issue do you see it as then? The bible doesn't say that anyone is a good person other then Jesus.

"Right" is a subjective term... I don't think its necessarily "right" to say how right it is for anyone to do anything. Things cannot be analysed in black and white as right and wrong. I believe the best measure of how well you live your life is if you stick to your morals and standards, and do your best to not go back on your word.

If we have no truth to begin with, then agreed, we cannot analyse things in black and white. However, if we are referring to the bible, then I think things a very black and white in the majority of cases. Also if the the measure of how well we live our life is how well we stick to our own personally created morals then how is it a measurement of anything since every unit of measurement would be different depending on the individual?

This is also what shits me about every church I've ever been to. Everything is bad and evil and wrong, instead of saying "what this whole thing about is forgiveness and love" and "dont do things that hurt others", rather than commenting on how "bad" and "naughty" people who shag before marriage are.

I think churches have to be like this because for there to be forgiveness their has to be addmitance of guilt. If we cannot firstly recognise that we are are wrong, then we have no reason for seeking forgiveness.

Churches shun more people than they attract. Anti-gay policies, and even worse, the Catholic Churches anti-contraception policies (even in nations, may I add, in which the population is crippled by HIV-AIDS) make me so angry.

If the purpose of the church was to make people happy then the church would have a relative defination of right and wrong whereby no-one has to ever feel guilt because by their own created morality they are never wrong. As it stands church is not like this, and I don't think intends to be. Although I think the contraception issue is debateable since it is not applicable to every church.

People preach much more than they practice. If the message Jesus had when he came to earth was forgiveness and love then why are Churches, and some christians, so black and white when it comes to issues in real life?

Because Jesus was also black and white in what he taught and like I pointed out before, guilt must be recognised before forgiveness can be asked for and accepted.

 

[Serius]

I don't mean to be difficult but the bible does say a lot more then that. So, whilst I not saying your wrong in your beliefs, I am saying that your beliefs are not agreeable to the extent the bible goes to. But you already no this right, so sorry, just wanting to make the distinction.


I hate things like this. In fact I think everyone does. When some people proclaim their own beliefs, but when it personally happens to them they go back on what they said.

However, just because they have gone back on what they said doesn't make their original statements wrong and it doesn't make them right for doing what they're doing now. I think it is important to keep in mind that there are christians that do keep to their word though. I know one couple who are now engaged, who went out together for 5 years previous and have still not slept together.

that you know of, iam sure plenty of couples have a go at it on the sly

 

[BradCube]

that you know of, iam sure plenty of couples have a go at it on the sly

Maybe some, but I know that this couple haven't. I'm sure you know of couples too that have stuck to their original intentions.

 

[azzie]

I hear a lot of white noise and too much caring and people claiming they know what's right again. Jeebus was never stressed. He was chillin, making water into wine and feeding people and telling stories.

BradCube, might I add that "faith" is the reason people don't know really ANYTHING about religion for sure. It's about faith, not black and white. Talk to some priests or ministers or read the Bible.

PeeEss, Every sin is as bad as any other. So I guess when you tell a white lie, or feel jealous, or really really want food, or swear or do anything "bad" you're just as bad as a murderer or rapist or (OMIGOD NO!!) someone who's had sex before marriage (by your thinking)

Churches disagree on scripture. The catholic church is anti contraception but some other churches arent. Some wouldnt have female or gay ministers while others do. You need to accept everyone for what they believe and dont class anyone as right and wrong, because you dont know everything. You're not God.... many people who have a really strong faith think they know everything like that, but they dont.


Shiznit.

 

[Serius]

personally i dont think its my business, i can be a very perceptive person so when i notice someones relationship has changed and in how they act towards each other i just assume they have started fucking...but its not something you say, and whilst you have explained your own beleifs before, i do not think you are morally superior than others and that your beleifs are the only right ones.
There are alot more worse things you can do to someone than making love, and i am sure God, the guy who invent love can understand that.

 

[BradCube]

Jeebus was never stressed. He was chillin, making water into wine and feeding people and telling stories.

If it really was easy and that simple then I doubt that Jesus would have needed to be brutally beaten and nailed to a cross. The reason he was nailed to that cross was because he told people that what they were doing was wrong.

BradCube, might I add that "faith" is the reason people don't know really ANYTHING about religion for sure. It's about faith, not black and white. Talk to some priests or ministers or read the Bible.

I fail to see how faith has anything to do with abosulte morality. Unlessof course you want argue that you must have faith to believe that absolutle morality exists, in which case you would need the same amount to believe that it does not.

PeeEss, Every sin is as bad as any other. So I guess when you tell a white lie, or feel jealous, or really really want food, or swear or do anything "bad" you're just as bad as a murderer or rapist or (OMIGOD NO!!) someone who's had sex before marriage (by your thinking)

It may suprise you to learn that I do believe that I am just as bad as a murder, raper etc. This, and my reasoning behind it, was outlined earlier in the thread .

You need to accept everyone for what they believe and dont class anyone as right and wrong, because you dont know everything. You're not God.... many people who have a really strong faith think they know everything like that, but they dont.

Of course I do not claim to know everything, nor am I claiming to be God, I am simply stating what the bible teaches. If you have a problem with that then your problem is with the bible and not me.

 

[BradCube]

i do not think you are morally superior than others

Nor do I, and I am not claiming to be.

There are alot more worse things you can do to someone than making love, and i am sure God, the guy who invent love can understand that.

If we are talking about the God of the bible, then I would have to disagree since sex was designed to be within the confines of marriage. If all sin is equal, then there is no worse, no nor better sin then sex before marriage.

 

[littlewing69]

NTB:

In my humble interpretation of the verse you posted, I believe Yeshua was making a point about the ubiquity of human imperfection (sin, if we must use the term), rather than a literal "OH NOES YOU ARE ALL ADULTEROUS!!ONEONE!!" thing. The second part of the verse illustrates how imperative it is for people to try their hardest to avoid unrighteousness.

Personally, I am an agnostic Theist of sorts, so while I think the Bible has a lot of good content, it was written by men about God, not the other way round, and that it should be read in that context. If Christians would stop nitpicking about Paul's sexual puritanism and start living the Sermon on the Mount, we'd have a better world, and I'd rock up to church every week without having to grind my teeth at the stupidity of it all.

 

[BradCube]

If Christians would stop nitpicking about Paul's sexual puritanism and start living the Sermon on the Mount, we'd have a better world, and I'd rock up to church every week without having to grind my teeth at the stupidity of it all.

I think some christians, or at least the ones I know, do try to live like that, but as you have also pointed out, it is challanging for people to avoid unrighteousness even when trying their hardest. That doesn't mean they stop trying, but it sure doesn't mean that christians are perfect.

 

[littlewing69]

But that is what I meant. They are so black and white that I don't think there is much room for different interpretation.

Yeah if you believe the Bible is the word of God, there's not much room to move on that one...

 

[littlewing69]

I think some christians, or at least the ones I know, do try to live like that, but as you have also pointed out, it is challanging for people to avoid unrighteousness even when trying their hardest. That doesn't mean they stop trying, but it sure doesn't mean that christians are perfect.

Christian teaching as a whole sort of skirts over the Sermon on the Mount, really. It's just too hard for most of us. Christians, I've found, tend to focus on the more superficial facets of being "Christ-like", like not drinking, swearing, having random sex, etc.

 

[BradCube]

Christian teaching as a whole sort of skirts over the Sermon on the Mount, really. It's just too hard for most of us. Christians, I've found, tend to focus on the more superficial facets of being "Christ-like", like not drinking, swearing, having random sex, etc.

Hmm I dunno about that. I have heard sermons on the Sermon on the Mount and have seen books also. I would certainaly not say that christian teaching skirts over it. Or at least the teaching that I have heard doesn't.

 

[littlewing69]

Hmm I dunno about that. I have heard sermons on the Sermon on the Mount and have seen books also. I would certainaly not say that christian teaching skirts over it. Or at least the teaching that I have heard doesn't.

As have I, but a lot of Christians, and this is just my personal experience naturally, simply don't rely on the SotM to the extent that I believe it should be used. I see it as the foundation of a religion, essentially, Jesus' religion. And so that's the part of Christianity I try to live up to, poorly. It just pisses me off when people get high and mighty about drinking/sex/other crap when they are supportive of various wars, or when they are showy in prayer, or when they yap on about prosperity doctrine...Basically the stuff that Jesus would really be disappointed in..

IMO, sexual conduct is a cultural issue which has changed with industrialisation and a myriad of other factors, but being self-righteous, judgemental and faux-pious has always been obnoxious. I think these are the issues we should address.

 

[BradCube]

As have I, but a lot of Christians, and this is just my personal experience naturally, simply don't rely on the SotM to the extent that I believe it should be used. I see it as the foundation of a religion, essentially, Jesus' religion. And so that's the part of Christianity I try to live up to, poorly. It just pisses me off when people get high and mighty about drinking/sex/other crap when they are supportive of various wars, or when they are showy in prayer, or when they yap on about prosperity doctrine...Basically the stuff that Jesus would really be disappointed in..

Yeah believe me, as a christian, this frustrates me also. As has been demonstrated by other posters, the church because of this (and a variety of other reasons) is shown in a negative light, since there seem to be so many hypocrites. Unfortunatley I am not able to change others, but I am able to change myself and it is for that reason which I try and live a life that follows the bible's teaching to the fullest extent. Not making exceptions here and there because it simply suits me better that way.

IMO, sexual conduct is a cultural issue which has changed with industrialisation and a myriad of other factors, but being self-righteous, judgemental and faux-pious has always been obnoxious.

I would disagree on this topic though. If it was a moral truth once then its value doesn't change despite the conditions around it changing. However this has more to do with my belief in absolute morality, which to prove or disprove is off topic for this thread.

 

[littlewing69]

Yeah believe me, as a christian, this frustrates me also. As has been demonstrated by other posters, the church because of this (and a variety of other reasons) is shown in a negative light, since there seem to be so many hypocrites. Unfortunatley I am not able to change others, but I am able to change myself and it is for that reason which I try and live a life that follows the bible's teaching to the fullest extent. Not making exceptions here and there because it simply suits me better that way.

And for that reason, Christians like yourself have my utmost respect, as do Muslims, Jews, Buddhists etc who stick to their guns without being dicks about it. Kudos to you.

I would put it to you, though, that Christian orthodoxy and orthopraxy ignores significant chunks of Biblical tradition. But yes, that is a discussion for another thread...

I would disagree on this topic though. If it was a moral truth once then its value doesn't change despite the conditions around it changing. However this has more to do with my belief in absolute morality, which to prove or disprove is off topic for this thread.

I believe in the absolute morality of love, and choose to hold that love is the important element in such decisions, regardless of the legal marital or societal state of sexual activity.