Ngyuen = hero ? (1 Viewer)

[Lundy]

I believe his sympathetic "hero" portrayal has a lot to do with the fact that, as we have been lead to believe by those in contact with him, he showed remorse for his crime, converted to catholicism, accepted his fate and upheld himself to the last with a sort of peaceful dignity, even speaking out against drugs. As his lawyer stated, he commited an evil act, but he's not an evil person. He accepted his fate even when many australians did not.

 

[ediisjoz]

Not a hero.

He's certainly not a hero. wtf. media = fucked up.. he wasnt a hero.. he died a criminal but it wasnt right for the death to be that barbaric. especially for his family

 

[crazyhomo]

Life imprisonment isn't always enough.

Scenario 1.
a person murders 10 people. Life imprisonment.
a person murders 200 people... Life imprisonment?

Scenario 2.
A man rapes and kills 3 women. 3 consecutive life sentences.

Whilst in prison, he kills a fellow prisoner.. What are they going to do? Chuck another one on top? Oh, i'm sure he REALLY feels the loss!

And may i remind you, that "life sentence" does not always mean "life sentence". God help Singapore if they should get a justice system like ours.

"I sentence you to life imprisonment. You shall be released in 6 days".

1 murder = death ?
10 murders = death ?
100 murders = death ?
1000 murders = death ?
4 million murders = death ?

what is the point of the death penalty? it's more about revenge then actual punishment. eye for an eye. but why is this sort of punishment only reserved for certain acts? why aren't rapists raped as their punishment? thieves robbed? why aren't muggers beat up?

there is a reason it's called the 'justice system' not the 'revenge system'

p.s. these countries live in a society that is filled with violence and fear. we do not. they have capital punishment for the smallest crimes. we do not have capital punishment at all

 

[insert-username]

p.s. these countries live in a society that is filled with violence and fear. we do not. they have capital punishment for the smallest crimes. we do not have capital punishment at all

I'd check your facts.

1. Since when was drug running a small crime? No country in the western world executes people for spitting or breaking post boxes.

2. Singapore has some of the lowest crime rates in the world per head of population. With around 500 total crimes per 100,000 population, it's one of the better in the world. Australia by comparison has 700 assault cases alone per 100,000 population.


I_F

 

[Not-That-Bright]

2. Singapore has some of the lowest crime rates in the world per head of population. With around 500 total crimes per 100,000 population, it's one of the better in the world. Australia by comparison has 700 assault cases alone per 100,000 population.

Well if you want to begin a debate about zero tollerance, i'm more than willing to join in on that... But I think attributing that to the death penalty and not their zero tollerance stance is wrong.

 

[insert-username]

Well if you want to begin a debate about zero tollerance, i'm more than willing to join in on that... But I think attributing that to the death penalty and not their zero tollerance stance is wrong.

I'm not spoiling for a debate at all - I'm against capital punishment. What I'm also against though is incorrect fact usage - just pointing out that labelling countries with capital punishment as more violent isn't right. Whether or not it's zero tolerance, the fact remains that Singapore's crime rate is well below ours any many other nations.


I_F

 

[erawamai]

p.s. these countries live in a society that is filled with violence and fear. we do not. they have capital punishment for the smallest crimes. we do not have capital punishment at all

I'd check your facts.

1. Since when was drug running a small crime? No country in the western world executes people for spitting or breaking post boxes.

2. Singapore has some of the lowest crime rates in the world per head of population. With around 500 total crimes per 100,000 population, it's one of the better in the world. Australia by comparison has 700 assault cases alone per 100,000 population.
I_F

Would you trust those figures?

I wouldn't trust much that comes out a 'government' that controlls the media and fully embraces the principles of nepotism.

Why would a government that has absolute power and control of the media ever want to publish crime figures which suggest that it is ineffective as a government?

 

[crazyhomo]

p.s. these countries live in a society that is filled with violence and fear. we do not. they have capital punishment for the smallest crimes. we do not have capital punishment at all

Laws in Singapore are generally strict with harsh punishments such as caning and execution, and a stringent censorship of the media including magazines, newspapers, movies and TV programmes. Pornography, oral sex, anal sex and homosexual intercourse are illegal in Singapore. Materials that may cause race or religious disharmony are not tolerated in Singapore, even on the Internet. In September 2005, three bloggers were charged with sedition for posting racist remarks, including two who were later fined and sentenced to imprisonment. Some offences can lead to heavy fines or caning. Laws provide for capital punishment in Singapore in cases of murder and drug trafficking. According to an Amnesty International report, 400 people were hanged between 1991 and 2004, which the report claimed is "possibly the highest execution rate in the world" per capita. Although the Government claims this figure to be false and exaggerated, it has not provided information that would refute Amnesty International's report.

who wouldn't be afraid?

 

[ogmzergrush]

who wouldn't be afraid?

lolz their country lolz!

 

[hipPo3]

what is the point of the death penalty? it's more about revenge then actual punishment. eye for an eye. but why is this sort of punishment only reserved for certain acts? why aren't rapists raped as their punishment? thieves robbed? why aren't muggers beat up?

Life sentences doesn't meean they'll be put behind bars for the rest of thier life. Prisoners can get out ealier then they were sentenced for. The death penalty was there to protect poeple outside and inside goals from poeple who obviously have commited horrific crimes. In those terms in can be seen as Justice... Keeping the prisoner iscolated from society.

Also we can't just give the same medicine to those that commited the crime .. that itself is commiting a crime isn't it ?

I'm against capital punishment. Singapore has no right to take the lives of our poeple. Even if it's thier laws.. they still have no right to take an Australian citizens life. Fuck this case is 3 yrs old... why didn't anyone plee for him then if ?. Noone actually cares about him .. just his case. Hero he is not.

 

[nick1048]

Cheers *drinks to that*. Yet no one would ever question him if he was never caught and ended up fucking up the lives of countless Australians with his haul. This country needs to re-evaluate their approach on drugs and drug affairs before creating the image that we tolerate or condone drug trafficing. Did Nguyen not know of the consequences of performing a drug operation in Singapore? How can the Australian government possibly dictate over the laws that govern the Singaporian nation.

I don't care whether or not you personally believe the death sentence is justifiable. You enter another nation, you respect their consequences for law breaking actions.

That is all.

 

[insert-username]

Would you trust those figures?

I wouldn't trust much that comes out a 'government' that controlls the media and fully embraces the principles of nepotism.

Why would a government that has absolute power and control of the media ever want to publish crime figures which suggest that it is ineffective as a government?

Instead of questioning the reliability of the statistics, why don't you find something that discredits them, instead of making a blanket accusation that makes an absolute out of the situation. I could just as easily say that the US government controls the Fox News Channel since it always seems to be spouting pro-Republican hype. That may carry just a little more weight.


I_F

 

[crazyhomo]

singapore has one of the lowest crime rates in the world. but it is effectively run by a dictatorship. when i've been to singapore, you ask someone there what they think of the government and they won't answer. they assume you are probably a government agent trying to catch them out

 

[erawamai]

Instead of questioning the reliability of the statistics, why don't you find something that discredits them, instead of making a blanket accusation that makes an absolute out of the situation.

It wasn't an accusation. It was a personal opinion. I just thought I'd point that out to you.

I could just as easily say that the US government controls the Fox News Channel since it always seems to be spouting pro-Republican hype. That may carry just a little more weight.

Your point can be distinguished on the basis that the USA is a democracy with a free media, elections and political parties. Even if the fox network is a front for the republican party there is still CBS, CNN, CNBC and other media outlets that provide differing opinion. Not found in signapore who has a strongly state controlled and pro government media. Singapore also doesn't have anything resembling a democracy.

As aformentioned it is run essentially as a dictatorship. I think it would be a fair assumption that dictatorships are generally not to be trusted. Unless of course you are suggesting that perhaps dictatorships are the best form of government.

 

[insert-username]

Your point can be distinguished on the basis that the USA is a democracy with a free media, elections and political parties. Even if the fox network is a front for the republican party there is still CBS, CNN, CNBC and other media outlets that provide differing opinion. Not found in signapore who has a strongly state controlled and pro government media. Singapore also doesn't have anything resembling a democracy.

Depending on your subject, it can be hard to find differing opinions.


It wasn't an accusation. It was a personal opinion. I just thought I'd point that out to you.

Thanks for the clarification.


As aformentioned it is run essentially as a dictatorship. I think it would be a fair assumption that dictatorships are generally not to be trusted. Unless of course you are suggesting that perhaps dictatorships are the best form of government.

The only problem with dictatorships is that humans are too greedy to run them right. Same problem with Communism. If you could have a perfect person at the head of a dictatorship, then it would be the best form of government. Unfortunately, we don't have anyone who is perfect, and flaws inevitably shine through.

Back to Singapore, whilst it may or may not be run authoritarian-style, I highly doubt that in today's globalised world that it could get away with something like making up statistics. Whatever a country does, the world is watching. Word gets out. So, in the end, dictatorship or not, I'm pretty sure the crime statistics in my post are relatively accurate. What would the point be in making them up anyway? If the country is as authoritarian as you suggest, people wouldn't be able to complain about the lies, and no one could find out the truth.


I_F

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Depending on your subject, it can be hard to find differing opinions.

If the government is not forcing these opinions then how is it a dictatorship? Are other opinions being silenced?

Back to Singapore, whilst it may or may not be run authoritarian-style, I highly doubt that in today's globalised world that it could get away with something like making up statistics. Whatever a country does, the world is watching. Word gets out. So, in the end, dictatorship or not, I'm pretty sure the crime statistics in my post are relatively accurate. What would the point be in making them up anyway? If the country is as authoritarian as you suggest, people wouldn't be able to complain about the lies, and no one could find out the truth.

What do you mean 'or may not'? Do you not think singapore is an authoritarian nation?

 

[insert-username]

If the government is not forcing these opinions then how is it a dictatorship? Are other opinions being silenced?

I said "controls the Fox News Channel", not the rest of the media. But fair enough.


What do you mean 'or may not'? Do you not think singapore is an authoritarian nation?

I don't know enough about it to decide. I've heard plenty. I don't know how much of what I heard is right. I'm a very, very indecisive person. I also hate catching myself talking in absolutes, since nothing is absolute (ironic, isn't it...)


I_F

 

[erawamai]

Back to Singapore, whilst it may or may not be run authoritarian-style, I highly doubt that in today's globalised world that it could get away with something like making up statistics. Whatever a country does, the world is watching. Word gets out. So, in the end, dictatorship or not, I'm pretty sure the crime statistics in my post are relatively accurate. What would the point be in making them up anyway? If the country is as authoritarian as you suggest, people wouldn't be able to complain about the lies, and no one could find out the truth.

Yes Singapore does have a low crime rate. However on the issue of the world watching. What makes you think the world isn't watching? The world already regards Singapore as a peculiar nation state. A place that combines socialist nanny state (which pushes its nose into the bedroom and bans oral sex) with free market economics and authoritarian government. Of course the world is going to notice this.

As for the people. The people do what they are told. The only other option is to leave.

 

[insert-username]

Yes Singapore does have a low crime rate.

I think that was the only point I was trying to make. Pity I couldn't even manage that right...


I_F

 

[katie_tully]

yeah it shits me how sports legends are heros
whoop de doo they kicked a ball into a net 10 times in one game
lets cherish them forever and hang them on our walls
that is all

Evidently you know nothing about Australian culture, identity or why we revere our sporting champions.

Go back to Israel or wherever the hell it is you hail from.


Anyway, Ngyuen isn't a hero. He is a criminal who got what he had coming to him. He had nobody to blame but himself, yet the media has won bleeding hearts over with the good brother/bad brother routine...actually trying to justify Ngyuens actions. Deary me.