Ngyuen = hero ? (1 Viewer)

[lawforever]

He is no hero. I think most people think he should be punished by a lengthy prison sentence.

You know that something is wrong when the state controlled unfree media starts questioning the mandatory death penalty.

As for the use of murder. Execution is state sanctioned murder. Execution has always been state sanctioned murder. Nothing new about that phrase.

So many people got executed under singaporean / other asian nations drug laws. It is obvious that in you people's point of view, death sentence is only too harsh and unacceptable when an australian is affected by it.

Someone in this thread got a nice point: we should be fixing our own problems instead of criticizing others.

I do feel sorry for his mum, families and friends but i don't feel sorry at all for himself.

 

[erawamai]

So many people got executed under singaporean / other asian nations drug laws. It is obvious that in you people's point of view, death sentence is only too harsh and unacceptable when an australian is affected by it.

Yes. It's call nationality. It happens to exist. The Australian media tends to deal with things that happen to impact on Australians because this happens to be Australia and the people of Australia want to hear about what happens to Australian people.

 

[LoneShadow]

I don't believe 99.9% of what I see and hear on TV. Never watch current affiar programs, as they are utter exagerated rubish. For the news I only watch SBS as the rest of them talk crap. As for that Asian guy who got hanged....nicely done Singapore. That should be a nice lesson.

 

[AsyLum]

Does anyone really admire the media?

You see the same 50 photographers desperate to get the money shot of his family greiving before the execution...because that photo is SO ESSENTIAL to the story and all.

Sure, the media is necessary, but when you watch guys desperately pounding away at press conferences asking loaded questions hoping for a slip of the tounge etc...

The media has always been one run by public opinion, don't criticise the field for something that society has structured it to be.

 

[lawforever]

Yes. It's call nationality. It happens to exist. The Australian media tends to deal with things that happen to impact on Australians because this happens to be Australia and the people of Australia want to hear about what happens to Australian people.

brilliant. Finally you admitted that australian exceptionalism is mattering

 

[chickaaaa]

well whether the sentence is suitable should depend on singaporean legislation instead of only half of the australian's point of views. do you agree that?

No, i do not necessarily agree. Obviously Singaporean legislation states that the sentence is suitable, but that doesn't mean everyone has to think it's suitable. Just because one country chooses to enforce capital punishment doesn't make it the 'suitable sentence'. Even a lot of people in Singapore were protesting Nguyen's execution, and yet you say that WE should respect Singaporean laws. So hypothetically, a person was thrown in jail for life in Singapore just because they were...say.. speeding, would you keep your opinions to yourself and believe that was a suitable punishment because that's what Singaporean legislation says?

 

[erawamai]

brilliant. Finally you admitted that australian exceptionalism is mattering

You seriously need to run your posts through a spell checker or MS word.

Of course its exceptionalism. All nations look after their own citizens above citizens of other nations. As aformentioned NATIONALITY AND THE NATION STATE STILL EXIST.

Much like if someone from Singapore is found to be in trouble in whatever country. The Singapore high comission would do its best to protect the rights of that citizen in that particular country.

 

[Roguedeth]

they wouldnt care if he was a nazi war criminal.

 

[veterandoggy]

Ngyuen entered their country and he was aware of the consequences. if anyone says that he shouldnt have been punished according to their law, it is like saying that some foreign person comes to australia, and kills someone because that person didnt pay a debt on time. the guy gets a sentence to imprisonment and his country makes a protest about it saying "in our country he only gets a fine. our government should do something to help our citizen, blah blah" we'd think that theyre idiots, and no doubt singaporeans are thinking the same about us.

 

[walrusbear]

Ngyuen entered their country and he was aware of the consequences. if anyone says that he shouldnt have been punished according to their law, it is like saying that some foreign person comes to australia, and kills someone because that person didnt pay a debt on time. the guy gets a sentence to imprisonment and his country makes a protest about it saying "in our country he only gets a fine. our government should do something to help our citizen, blah blah" we'd think that theyre idiots, and no doubt singaporeans are thinking the same about us.

that's a shithouse analogy because there is an obvious difference between imprisonment and execution
the universal abhorrence of capital punishment can't be ignored and in this case appears to be trying to transgress national boundaries

 

[withoutaface]

execution is the way to go !
life imprisonment will just cost us tax payers more money

peace^^

Could you be more wrong? Do some research, CP actually costs more than keeping a prisioner for life.

 

[Xayma]

In any case removing capital punishment will stop a number of innocent people being set free. Nobody fights to ensure that those sentenced to life imprisonment were innocent or not (some will ask for the death sentence over life because then you have lots of organisations trying to help you).

 

[AsyLum]

that's a shithouse analogy because there is an obvious difference between imprisonment and execution
the universal abhorrence of capital punishment can't be ignored and in this case appears to be trying to transgress national boundaries

*buzz* Wrong. But thanks for playing.

 

[insert-username]

CP actually costs more than keeping a prisioner for life.

That's only in America, where the law allows for endless appeals and delays in carrying out death sentences. The average time spent on the US death row is 11 years per inmate (2004 figure). 11 years of retrials, appeals, and time wasting, in general. I imagine capital punishment in Singapore, where they average a couple of executions a year, would cost far less than it does in the US. Van Nguygen spent a month or so on death row before his execution, off the top of my head. Far cry from 11 years of maintenance and court costs.


I_F

 

[0o0]

what i dont understand is why people like lawforever, support the death penalty in singapore just because it is a law in that country. do you dumbasses not realise that even official laws can be questioned no matter what country they're in? just because its a law, does that mean everyone is meant to shut the fuck up and accept it?

example

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ateqeh_Rajabi

hey look, it was a legal decision to hang this 16yr old girl in iran, i guess by lawforevers reasoning, we got to respect that decision right dumbass?

nguyen or no nguyen, ive always been against the death penalty, i dont give a shit if its law or not, laws can be questioned, why can't you understand this?

now it's all oppinion when it comes to the death penalty, it been done to death already, but when you are arguing FOR capital punishment, try base your oppinion on something else rather then "its their law and we gotta respect it", fuck singapore.

 

[Serius]

Life imprisonment isn't always enough.

Scenario 1.
a person murders 10 people. Life imprisonment.
a person murders 200 people... Life imprisonment?

Scenario 2.
A man rapes and kills 3 women. 3 consecutive life sentences.

Whilst in prison, he kills a fellow prisoner.. What are they going to do? Chuck another one on top? Oh, i'm sure he REALLY feels the loss!

And may i remind you, that "life sentence" does not always mean "life sentence". God help Singapore if they should get a justice system like ours.

"I sentence you to life imprisonment. You shall be released in 6 days".

your point is fair, and because my morals do not allow execution, thats pretty much what would happen, but other countrys like America do have execution for homoside and first degree murder and they dont execute drug trafficers? maybe because drug trafficing isnt seen as bad as homoside? not to mention America conductions their executions much more professionally than Singapore [ hanging? dont make me scoff how primitive]

I have to agree with you lawforever. Whilst it seems to the Western World that the death penalty is a harsh and unforgiving form of punishment, we have to face the fact that Ngyuen was still a drug trafficker. To be caught with any amount of an illegal drug, especially with an intended purpose of supply to the wider community, could even be perceived as intention to harm or kill in my own opinion. Fair enough if the drugs were to be used for personal purposes...its a personal choice, but when you hear these stories of families losing loved ones to OD, its difficult to find any other justification for the Singaporeans not to carry out their own legislations.

Because our own legal system isn't really sufficient, I expect that it is difficult for many of us to understand the decision to undertake the death penalty for prisoners, given that hanging may not be the best alternative. My only concern is that while their is such a raucous in the media about this story, while the Unions are proposing a work ban on Singapore Airlines in protest, why aren't we questioning our own system, and the sentences being handed down for murder, rape and even drug trafficking. Where are the vigils for the victims in these crimes? As much as I hate to say it, morals and ethics are always going to play a small part in the final determination of int'l law. Cultures and customs conflict and differ. Whilst we may not see the rationality in carrying out the death penalty, others do. Its time to stop being so critical of other int'l legal systems, and begin to fix our own.

your post seems to be to be pushing for harsher penalties in Australia... many agree that this should happen, hell even i think murderers should get a life sentence, no parole minimum
The thing is, you think that drug trafficers have the potential to harm and kill. Yes lets all blame the drug dealers and trafficers for societies problem... drugs arent really that big of a problem is australia, lots of people use drugs recreationally... but if you turn into a junkie, remember it was your own fucking decission to take the drugs and if you overdose or die from it[ as your post suggests " potential murder"] then you can only blame yourself.
We dont all go executing those who sell ciggies do we? its the same shit, they are addictive, they kill... so maybe we should punish those who bring them into Australia? call them potential murderers and be done with it

execution is the way to go !
life imprisonment will just cost us tax payers more money

peace^^

i cant agrue with that, although your morals clash with mine, yours are actually consistent, arguing for execution in every country, not special little rules for certain countries... but your logic is flawed, as executions do cost tax payers more money... there are expensive appeals and legal processes that have to be gone through until execution can occur

Actually it is only banned if states adopt an optional protocol within various rights acts (name escapes me at the moment but it is based off the UDHR). So consideirng it is an optional protocol I don't see how it says no execution.

thankyou, i was guessing it would be optional because America hasnt been punished or anything, but either way it shows how the UN views execution, and that although it allows it, it dissaproves

Ngyuen entered their country and he was aware of the consequences. if anyone says that he shouldnt have been punished according to their law, it is like saying that some foreign person comes to australia, and kills someone because that person didnt pay a debt on time. the guy gets a sentence to imprisonment and his country makes a protest about it saying "in our country he only gets a fine. our government should do something to help our citizen, blah blah" we'd think that theyre idiots, and no doubt singaporeans are thinking the same about us.

now there you went and made yourself sound iignorant. Australia has pretty light laws sp o dobut that scenario would ever happen. And he should be punished according to their law, the problem is that their law is wrong... laws are supposed to be based on morals [ which are generally universal] ethics and ideals of the people, so if our law not to execute drug smugglers is right and the majority of our population agree with that law, how can their law also be moral?
And a shitload of other countries defend their citizens when they are about to be executed overseas, what about that german girl who didnt get executed thanks to intervention by her government.
Fucking John Howard, do something for our own citizens for once in your life you pathetic fool, all the other countries do.

 

[0o0]

In any case removing capital punishment will stop a number of innocent people being set free. Nobody fights to ensure that those sentenced to life imprisonment were innocent or not (some will ask for the death sentence over life because then you have lots of organisations trying to help you).

what proof do you have? what about the innocents that may possibly have been executed?

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...090169dec09,0,7244555.story?coll=chi-news-hed

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=6&did=111#executed

 

[insert-username]

not to mention America conductions their executions much more professionally than Singapore [ hanging? dont make me scoff how primitive]

Sure. Keeping an inmate hanging for an average of 11 years on death row, with some waiting for over 20, is very, very professional. Making these people waiting for that long in near-complete isolation while people in suits argue in court is very, very professional. Just because they do it with the needle doesn't make it "professional".

I_F

 

[Cookie182]

I think that the case is sad, and that capital punishment for drug smuggling is wrong, especially by hanging which to me is a horrible punishment both for Nguyen and of course his family. BUT. I certainly do not think Nguyen should be now considered a hero. The guy knew the laws. And he took on the risk. If you dont want to be hung, dont smuggle drugs in and out of singapore. IT cant be a simpler message.

A classic example but in a different context is young teenagers who often play "chicken" on local highways. This is where they stand on the road in front of oncoming cars and dive out of the road at the last minute. Trying to scare the drivers and see who can last the longest with out chickening out. Everyone thought these kids were absolute idiots until one got killed. Suddenly he is a victim and a hero. The victim is the driver. As harsh as it is- those kids knew the risks and thought stuff it. Ill do it anyway. Thats what nguyen did. Any amount of money is not worth your neck. Hopefully it will open an eye for any other young australians thinking about drug smuggling.

A clasic line out of pulp fiction sums up my point- "If you play with matches, you get burned." Now you cant argue with queintin tarantino can you?

 

[Xayma]

what proof do you have? what about the innocents that may possibly have been executed?

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...090169dec09,0,7244555.story?coll=chi-news-hed

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=6&did=111#executed

http://www.wehaitians.com/serving life with no chance of redemption.html
Its a copy of a NY Times article.

I disagree with the death penalty for the reasons that the innocent can't be given back life, but that ruins all my fun letting my own pesky views get in the way.