JaredR said:
Withdrawing to the UN borders is “not a prescription for peace, but for a renewal of hostilities” (June 19, 1967 – Lyndon Johnson)
“In the pre-1967 borders, Israel was barely ten miles wide at its narrowest point. The bulk of Israel’s population lived within artillery range of hostile Arab armies.” – (September 1, 1982 – Ronald Reagan)
Resolution 242 adopted in November 1967 after the Six-Day War asserted that Israel was not expected to withdraw to the 1967 borders which were explicitly not defined as final political borders in the document which established them. Israel was only required to withdraw from “territories” (and not even all of them) to “secure and recognised boundaries” The previous boundaries were not secure. The Six Day War was clear-cut self-defense.
UN Resolution 181 which called for Jerusalem as an international city was rejected by the surrounding Arab constituents and resulted in the ensuing War immediately following Israel’s creation. Tel Aviv was the original capital recognised by Israelis until 1950 following Arab aggression and subsequent defeat where West Jerusalem was declared the new capital.
There is no question that Jews suffered greatly from the despicable legacy of anti‐Semitism, This history, as noted, provides a strong moral case for supporting Israel’s existence
. But the creation of Israel involved additional crimes against a largely innocent third party: the Palestinians. This is why i am simply against the creation of ISRAEL.
Even when Israel was founded, Jews were only about 35 percent (due to mass immigration from Europe) of Palestine’s population and lived on 6 percent of the land.
the UN resolution 181 you speak of....lol???? This partition plan was adopted on November 29th, 1947
with 33 votes in favour, 13 against, and 10 abstentions. and this is after killing, purging, taking over Palestinian land and then having the land split up in favour of the jews. and yet you have your head high and show me some democratic resolution by the UN? According to your great democracy,
any outcome of this democratic process must be
respected. This so called democracy has
functioned perfectly: according to you and your brigade this is
morally admirable. But it clearly is not:
there is something fundamentally wrong with democracy, if it allows this outcome.
the nicest way i can say what is going on in Palestine is that
Israel has colonized and Imperialised Palestine. A country which had not done anything to anyone on the global arena and in the region itself.
JaredR said:
I do not deny the displacement of Palestinians with the creation of The State of Israel. This problem augmented when Arabs, opposed to any Jewish State in areas with large Jewish populations attacked the newly born Israel. In peace efforts, the Palestinian leadership under the guise of Yasser Arafat was offered $30 billion US in compensation for the displaced Palestinians (who aren’t as great a number as claimed by yourself.
what peace effort when the the country shouldn't even exist! of course the Arabs were going to go crazy. if the UN allowed the aborigines to take 60% of ......say.....japan because of how the aussies treated the aborigines, wtf do you think people in japan are going to do! everyone will go bezerk!
JaredR said:
Yes, Israel was created at the foot of the Holocaust. It was to mark a safe haven for the Jewish people, a place where they had a police force and army to protect them. It was at a time when the doors of Australia, United States and numerous other Western nations closed their doors to a civilization in need. I will not ever refute the value of Israel on the security and survival of the Jewish people.
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civilization? oh lord. BUT WHY THE HELL DID THE PALESTINIAN HAVE TO PAY FOR EUROPEAN CRIMES....NOT ONLY THAT WHY SHOULD THEY GIVE UP THEIR LANDS FOR IT!?
JaredR said:
You may consider acts of Palestinian terrorism as freedom fighting, but at the end of the day the heinous actions committed by some Palestinians against Israeli men, women and children is for the purpose of furthering their own political agenda – this is terrorism. Subsequent Israeli response (referring to that State sanctioned and initiated by the Israel Defense Force or other RECOGNISED security force) is henceforth not terrorism but self-defense. Individual Israelis who enter places of worship and kill and maim Muslims at prayer, throw stones at Palestinian children on their way to school etc are equally terrorists, but then again using numerous justification of Palestinian terrorism as a response to improper acts by Israelis could equally be used for these Israeli terrorists except with regards to Palestinians.
Palestinian terrorism is
not random violence directed against Israel or “the West”; it is largely a
response to Israel’s prolonged campaign
to colonize the West Bank and Gaza Strip.
to me the way pro-Israeli posters think it gives out signals that they are blind....or stupid. the definition of terrorist changes faster than Tim Baileys weather forecast does.
it seems one man is a terrorist and the other is a freedom fighter EVEN IF BOTH DO THE EXACTLY THE SAME INHUMANE ACT.
when the French resistance were blowing occupying Nazi forces, killing civilians as they went,
they were heroes and Freedom fighters to the west.
When the Irish republican army were blowing up British troops they were
terrorists.
when the British army took on the Americans in the American revolution, killing civilians as they went,
they were heroes and soldiers of the king/queen and defenders of the British empire. but when the Americans fought back the British called the
American revolutionaries terrorists.
See what I mean, its all propaganda.
So when some freak kills 8 Israelis with a machine gun
he is a terrorist.
But when Israeli warplanes bomb a village and kill dozens of innocent civilians, they were
`just defending themselves`.
Cut the crap.
JaredR said:
Again there was a greater Jewish population than 1% in 1917. Secondly you can use those wonderful maps you flamboyantly display to note that much of the Israeli land was arid desert. Jewish ingenuity marketed the surrounding environment and now these regions feature green houses, vineyards and other profitable businesses. Israelis have reaped the land and are enjoying the benefits. Tel Aviv another fine example: built on sand dunes and now a bustling modern city home to one of the largest IT hubs in the world and the most expensive city in the entire Middle East. Numerous people, including Mark Twain defined much of Israel pre-1948 as barren land with little infrastructure and harvesting, including in the fertile lands in the Galilee.
yeah so what? you post does not explain why israel should exist at the expense of the palestinians.
JaredR said:
I think you will find in history books that the 1948 War of Independence was as a result of Arab aggression opposed to the creation of a Jewish state in the Middle East.
lol. The fact that the creation of Israel entailed a moral crime against the Palestinian people was well understood by Israel’s leaders. Ben‐Gurion the first prime minister of Israel knew this as he said to Nahum Goldmann at the World Jewish Congress,
“If I were an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. . . . We come from Israel, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been anti‐Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that?”
wow, did i swear or insult!? ROFLMAO!
