Israel and Palestine (3 Viewers)

[Captain Gh3y]

Re: Israel & Palestine

Israel haters at the UN:

Contrary to all the promises of reform issued last year, the proposal released today by Council President Luis Alfonso de Alba targets Israel for permanent indictment under a special agenda item: “Human rights situation in Palestine and other occupied Arab territories,” which includes “Human rights violations and implications of the Israeli occupation of Palestine and other occupied Arab territories”; and “Right to self-determination of the Palestinian people.” No other situation in the world is singled out — not genocide in Sudan, not child slavery in China, nor the persecution of democracy dissidents in Egypt and elsewhere. Moreover, the council will entrench its one-sided investigative mandate of “Israeli violations of international law”—the only one not subject to regular review after a set term—by renewing it “until the end of the occupation.”

At the same time, the proposal eliminates the experts charged with reporting on violations by Cuba and Belarus, despite the latest reports of massive violations by both regimes. As for the experts on other countries — on Burundi, Cambodia, North Korea, Democratic Republic of Congo, Haiti, Liberia, Burma, Somalia and Sudan — all of these may soon be eliminated, as threatened by the Council majority comprised of dictatorships and other Third World countries, under a gradual “review” process. Pending their fate, all experts will be subjected to a new “Code of Conduct,” submitted by Algeria in the name of the African group, designed to intimidate and restrict the independence of the human rights experts.

http://www.unwatch.org/site/c.bdKKI...eva/apps/nl/newsletter2.asp?tr=y&auid=2773803

 

[$hiftyIceQueen]

Re: Israel & Palestine

“I dont find this funny? Do you ffind the fact that people have to die in order to save their children funny?

You give an example of a dog, so would you be delighted if you dog died for you? No you wont.”
What the hell are you talking about. I am referring to Imams who encourage people to kill Jews, I am talking about Hamas operatives who blow themselves up. I was laughing at you, not people dieing. I am not heartless like those people.

*dying.

Of coarse these people are happy that they die for them, why else encourage that? You must be dense, if I encourage my dog to have a drink and it has a drink, would I not be delighted? Of coarse I would. Lol, your logic is so flawed.

^^ That is what you said. Now to me that sounds like you're talking about the 'human shields' not the 'Imams who encourage people to kill Jews' Where does it mention Imams? what the hell...where do you even mention Jews in there?! Nope i cant see anything. Only a story about you and your dog.

'those people' :| "Those people" arent heartless, they want their land back, their family/friends etc are trying to help them, is that so hard to understand?

“It's illegal, but it still happens, and we arent saying SOME, we are saying most!! onebytwo even showed you some links.

Yes theyre punished when theyre caught, yet so many keep doing the same thing and are being protected by others.”

No, it is not many people who are doing this, it is not even most. To try and turn this around by saying it is state policy is just twisting the truth. Yes there are isolated incidents of this, yes these people are punished, no this is not Israeli policy.
“http://www.btselem.org/english/Testimonies/20060717_Beit_Hanun_Human_Shields_Aza_al_Kafarneh. asp”
You gave me one incident, good work, now for the next 20 or better yet show me the law that makes this state policy.

Please kill me now!!!

WHERE THE HELL DID I BLOODY SAY IT WAS A STUPID STATE POLICY?! Go on???? where?! Is this the only thing you people do, make crap up then expect people to believe your trash?!

Don't forget it used to be a policy in the IDF to go door knocking with Palestinians next to them, that practice was deemed illegal some time ago, so you'll have to give me example from 2005 onwards.

Example=one
examples=more than one

So why dont you check what you're asking for then complain about it.

“Lovely, shows you are a cold heart creature.”

“WHO THE HELL WANTS PEOPLE TO DIE?! If they had to shoot, they could have injured the guy then took him to whatever hospital, then arrested him, but no they decided to go for the kill.”

Cold hearted? If you had a gun and someone came sprinting up to you with a petrol bomb about to throw it and you’re telling me that you would have the nerve to go for a disarming shot? Don’t be ridiculous. In a life threatening situation you would go for the best way to defend yourself, and this means a fatal shot.

As to your question of who wants people to die, have you checked Hamas’s martyrdom posters? That would give you an idea.

What do you take me for? I wont try to kill the person! I aint cruel, and i especially wouldnt aim to kill a kid!

As i already said i dont support this, and it is wrong. The Palestinians call on women and other civilians to become human shields, whereas the Israelis force many. You are crazy if you think one is better than the other.
________

According to the Israeli human rights organization B’tselem, between July and November 15 this year, the IDF destroyed 251 homes in Gaza, leaving 1577 people homeless. In 105 of these cases the IDF destroyed the home by airstrike after warning the inhabitants to leave. While the IDF generally claims that militants used those homes to store weapons, they have not presented any concrete evidence in individual cases.

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2006/11/22/isrlpa14652.htm

More sources:
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2007/03/16/isrlpa15506.htm
http://wakeupfromyourslumber.blogspot.com/2006/07/human-shield-lie-exposed.html
http://lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com/news/2006/08/hiding_behind_c.html

Could you please quote, instead of putting other peoples words in bold:|

 

[Born2baplacebo]

Re: Israel & Palestine

Can anyone tell me/the forum that they are Jewish by any chance? I mean, it would make the world of difference if a Jew was involved in this argument, and therefore, a biased argument.


Israelis claimed they were acting only in response to Palestinian acts of terrorism. Palestinians claimed they were only carrying out legitimate resistance, against numerous violations by Israel of Palestinian rights, and political sovereignty.

It's just a bunch of toddlers fighting over a toy. The toddlers = the Israeli's and Palestinians. The toy = the holy land.

The reason they won't sign a peace treaty is that because they are too stubborn to admit their faults.

 

[$hiftyIceQueen]

Re: Israel & Palestine

Umm..Nathan, Jay, Atilla are Jews [Nathan and Jay have already said theyre, not sure if Atilla did tho]

And aryan is most likely a Jew.

Its not that simple. The Palestinians believe it is their land, and that they didnt sell nothing, whereas the Israelis believe they bought the land therefore its theirs. and both believe that the land is connected to their religion.

they wont sign because they want what they arent being offered. so until they get what they want, this will keep going on.

Eidt: I'm only saying theyre Jews, not like in a rude way Its like me saying im Muslim, and so are Sam and Mani. :|

 

[ZabZu]

Re: Israel & Palestine

Not all Jews are Zionists and not all Zionists are Jews

 

[nathan71088]

Re: Israel & Palestine

Umm..Nathan, Jay, Atilla are Jews [Nathan and Jay have already said theyre, not sure if Atilla did tho]

Excuse me

I did not say I was Jewish. I dismissed the question and said this is is not about religion.

 

[nathan71088]

Re: Israel & Palestine

Originally Posted by nathan71088
You din't target anyone, but we are talking about a conflict between Israel and Palestine, while you didn't target anyone you meant Jews and Muslims. If you werent referring to those groups you have the wrong conflict.


Lol. Well done, you have finally gotten to the point of what I said.

So you are agreeing that it is about religious extremism from one of the religions. You said that you didn't target anyone but as you just agreed...you actually did...in a politically correct way...

Anyhow, I do not believe there is any Jewish extremism, so then, considering we cleared up that you were referring to Juews and Muslims, you would be referring to Islamic extremism.

I do not believe this is about religion as I have stated before but what do you think?

P.S. Obviously most of those who are extreme in Israel are Jewish but they are not extreme about their religion directly relating to this conflict i.e. their religion is not what creates this "extremism" but rather nationalism is what creates it.

 

[$hiftyIceQueen]

Re: Israel & Palestine

Excuse me

I did not say I was Jewish. I dismissed the question and said this is is not about religion.

O k

Chill dude

Sorry, you're not a Jew. Still dont get why you lot get so worked up about :S

 

[HotShot]

Re: Israel & Palestine

O k

Chill dude

Sorry, you're not a Jew. Still dont get why you lot get so worked up about :S

He is a jew, doesnt want to bring it into discussion thats all.

 

[davidw89]

Re: Israel & Palestine

Clearly you did: “In fact, if the Jews thinks money solves everything then they're wrong because you and i both know that it was a bribe.”

Um Clearly you didnt understand my post...i said IF the Jew thinks money solves EVERYTHING thing...

Of coarse there was a motive to buying land, so the could live there…A people should never be unwelcome to a country based on their religion or race, that’s called racism.

Well duh you buy lands to live there ..but the Jews came unwelcome, and if that's called Racism then too bad because it exist it other countries. Also your sentence dont make sense, what are you trying to argue.

Sadly sarcasm doesn’t come across to well when typed.

Well clearly if you cant read then perhaps this would have been better: "bias"

As for a creditable source, all you’ve said is that it isn’t. Can you tell me some of its mistakes? If you can’t I will take it as credible. BTW, if you’ve looked at the criticism have you checked the source? Of coarse the people I’m debating with are not going to like the source, you should come up with your own opinion.

Well the sources are very bias for a start....rofl so according to you just because you think the source is good then it must be good? IF by any chance your source was reliable/credibile then you wouldnt have a bandwagon of people complaining about your sources..but if it wasnt then that might just be the case (which is the situation).

Maybe you should stop putting words into my mouth. I said the source confirmed that the Jews bought the land and then got the rest through a series of wars started by the ARABS!

No it was through war initiated by ARABS.

I disagree with the the fairand square land 'buying', more liek a land grab.
Also not all wars were started by the Arabs.

Well the fact that they sold the land gives me a clue…dumbass.

If you really believe that this then perhaps your dumber than i thought.

So how would you stop a war? By promoting retaliation?

Read back to my post if you still dont get it. THE PALESTINIANS DONT WANT A PEACE TREAT BECAUSE THEY HAVE THEIR GOD DAMN LANDS STOLEN.

Look above for my response as to how the land ended up Israeli. If they don’t want to do this (Palestinians) then they will be no peace.

SO what makes you think the Isrealies will have Peace?

Because the Palestinians refuse to give up terror and recognise Israel. Or haven’t you been following what’s been going on?

Dude why the fuck would they want to recognise Israel, and as for the terror remark, that's just another way to fight Israel to get their land back. Moreover, it has been proven countless time by others on this thread that Israel is jsut as guilty in regard to their act, also constituded as 'terrorist action'.

Mate iam sure you've be rebuffed like 20+ times but you just come back and add bullshit everytime. Are you Jewish by any chance?

 

[lazystudent]

Re: Israel & Palestine

Regardless of wheter or not its justifable That jews have taken over the former palestinian state the fact is that they are there now and they are not going anywhere.

20 years ago people would say that Ireland would never have peace between Catholics and Protestants.

The problem really is US and Iranian involvement and the trade embargo current placed on Palestine. This is what has given rise to both Fatah and Hamas, both are products of either the US or Iran, none are really representaional of the Palestinian people.

Hopefully with as little US and Iranian ifluence as possible, Israel and Palestine will be able to co exist.

 

[nathan71088]

Re: Israel & Palestine

He is a jew, doesnt want to bring it into discussion thats all.

Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I'm Jewish...

 

[nathan71088]

Re: Israel & Palestine

The way I see it (having studied this stupid conflict for both Preliminary and HSC Modern, as well as having interest in the topic) is that - while now the main focus of the Arab-Israeli conflict in regards to Palestine is who should have control of the land and the battles that go on in regards to this point - there is an underlying religious battle that goes on. The Palestinians want Jeruselum because of it's religious significance to Muslims and Islam, and the Jews/Israelis (I couple these groups together because as far as I know Israel is meant to be a Jewish state?) have the same. AND Christians also lay claim to several sites as being "religiously significant". This is why the UN took control of Jeruselum as a "Green Zone" under Resolution 181 which created the Israeli state.

And, furthermore, the land has been disputed for thousands of years between the two religions, with debate as to who are the "chosen people" to take control of the "holy lands".



The Jewish extremism was at the forefront in the lead up to the creation of Israel and in the early days, with Jew's also committing "terror" attacks. Nowadays - I agree with you - it seems that the Jewish "extremism" is being shown as nationalism, with some elements of the population resorting to extreme nationalism.

This was apparent, in regards to the Oslo Accords, which opened the way for a possible split of Jeruselum. As a result of these accords, Yitzak Rabin was assassinated by a right-wing Israeli, opposed to the split.

Can you see what I'm saying, with regards to religion?

Truthfully I whole heartedly agree with you on 99.9% of what you have said but obviously my disagreements with that small amount are immaterial so I definitely get where you are coming from.

SO not arguing or disputing but just clarifying from my end: Definitely agree that there was some religious extremism in the past.
Though, I reckon it is minimal nowadays. I am referring to active extremism on a religious basis. There are still many extreme religious people with extreme religious views...on both sides of the spectrum e.g. Neturei.

I want to go into those terror attacks you speak of. Just as a fore-runner. I do not condone what was done. I do not excuse it, I say that it was an act that was trying to get attention...obviously the wrong way. If you wish to look into it more it is called the King David Hotel bombing. Most sources should give the same neutral information as I think most sources recognise it as a terrorist attack (including Israeli ones). I am not apologising for it but rather clarifying it. This attack along with the assassination of Yitzchack Rabin were almost purely political and not religious. Obviously this is just as wrong but I must point out that Yigal Amir, who shot Rabin, shot him as an extreme right wing supporter who was angry at Rabin for going left wing on his policies. I don't really know what to say about it other than for our purpose of clarifying it as a political attack as opposed to a religious one.

But your last post was insightful and quite neutral...rare on this forum.

 

[davidw89]

Re: Israel & Palestine

Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I'm Jewish...

Do you deny being Jewish?

 

[$hiftyIceQueen]

Re: Israel & Palestine

Lol...i think everyone should get over the whole 'is Nathan a Jew thing'

sorry man, since its my fault:S

I agree with David though -on the other stuff he's going on about

 

[nathan71088]

Re: Israel & Palestine

Lol...i think everyone should get over the whole 'is Nathan a Jew thing'

sorry man, since its my fault:S

I agree with David though -on the other stuff he's going on about

Hey it's no problem , I just don't think those in support of Palestine would be highly impressed if I labelled everyone of them as a Muslim.

 

[nathan71088]

Re: Israel & Palestine

As far as I know (again my scope is just what I learnt in High School Modern History) is that the King David bombing was a Zionist extremist attempt to force the British out of Mandate Palestine in a hope that they would end their mandate and their was an increased Potential for the Zionist state to be created. We have to remember that the British screwed both the "Zionists" and the "Palestinians" over, as both groups were promised Palestine during WWI, and in the end the Brits conformed to the Skyes-Picot agreement, which saw them take control of Palestine and France other pieces of the Ottoman empire.



As far as I was aware Amir assassinated Rabin not only for political reasons, but also due to Rabin's willingness to come to an agreement with the Palestinians on the issue of Jeruselum. This angered many people - including some hardline Rabbis who called for his head - because of the willingness to "share" such a religiously significant part of Israel with the Palestinians. But hey, it's just what I was taught. **shrug**



I've obviously missed the part when it mattered what religion everyone is. Here is a thought "David", either get over it, or run along back to General 07 Discussion.

Once again I pretty much agree with everything you have said. I am not big in civil Israeli politics so I guess there may be others that disagree but I for one agree.

Just in terms of the Amir thing. Yes Rabbis may have been upset with Rabins policies but they don't have the influence to cause an assassination firstly and even if they did it would be wrong under Jewish law. I understand that what you have been taught is what you understand so I am just making this point, Yigal Amir was a secular right wing extremist so I don't think his actions were fuelled by religion but it is not a major point of discussion its one of clarification.

 

[Aryanbeauty]

Re: Israel & Palestine

Um Clearly you didnt understand my post...i said IF the Jew thinks money solves EVERYTHING thing...

Just because you are dirt poor and dont have money like jews does not mean being being rich and powerful is bad. Jews work hard to get rich while your kind rob banks and sell dope to get rich. (insert Mokbel here)

Well duh you buy lands to live there ..but the Jews came unwelcome, and if that's called Racism then too bad because it exist it other countries. Also your sentence dont make sense, what are you trying to argue.

Whether arabs welcome jews or not, they will be there, forever, as they had been since 3000 years ago before there was an arab in israel or palestine. Jews have undisputed rights over israel from God, from UN, from Britain and by birth.

I disagree with the the fairand square land 'buying', more liek a land grab.
Also not all wars were started by the Arabs.
If you really believe that this then perhaps your dumber than i thought.
Read back to my post if you still dont get it. THE PALESTINIANS DONT WANT A PEACE TREAT BECAUSE THEY HAVE THEIR GOD DAMN LANDS STOLEN.

No, palestinians dont want peace treaty because they are filled with greed and hatred against jews. They do not have their lands stolen, they lost it in a series of wars started by arabs agression of israel.

Dude why the fuck would they want to recognise Israel, and as for the terror remark, that's just another way to fight Israel to get their land back. Moreover, it has been proven countless time by others on this thread that Israel is jsut as guilty in regard to their act, also constituded as 'terrorist action'.

Mate iam sure you've be rebuffed like 20+ times but you just come back and add bullshit everytime. Are you Jewish by any chance?

really, blowing up cafe and Buses or forcing children and women to blew themselves up is a way of getting their lands back? Sorry, it dont work. Israel is NOT losing an inch of territories as a result of terrorist acts.

Palestinian authority already recognised Israel which shows your ignorance. It is Terrorists Hamas and islamic Jihad , now kicked out from Palestinian Government who refused to recognise Israel. They are now banished into Gaza and it will be much easier for Israel to contain these islamic terrorists and let palestinians live in peace in west bank, free from Islamist oppression in Gaza.

 

[wuddie]

Re: Israel & Palestine

you know those stuff we used for hiroshima, do we have any more of those left? right now it is a pretty good time to test out a few of them and take out israel and palestine, end this bs once and for all.

who's with me?

no one?

ok, that's fine...

 

[Aryanbeauty]

Re: Israel & Palestine

No Australia does not have one. Israel does.