Is Australia a secular state? (3 Viewers)

[xXeMoxXxCoRexX]

The test is clearly designed to discriminate against those of non english speaking background, non whites and non christians. The last one is particularly relevant as we see that our ministers on both sides of politics are influenced greatly by their religious dogmas and constantly seek to push religious agendas into our laws and culture and society

 

[jb_nc]

The test is clearly designed to discriminate against those of non english speaking background, non whites and non christians.

those questions are piss easy after being here for 5 or whatever years on PR if you cant answer them you are retarded and probably should fuck off

 

[iamsickofyear12]

Church attendance is at record highs across the nation, and institutions such as Hillsong have enormous social influence with links to businesses, powerful individuals and Government institutions. This is evidenced by the pushing of teaching creation in our schools.

Record highs? Last time I checked they were at record lows. Churches are doing all sorts of things to get people to come back.

According to the last census 19% of people have no religion. The number is probably much higher though since people like to say they have a religion when they don't really, and then there are all the people that don't practice their religion at all.

 

[Aryanbeauty]

o rly?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Abbott
Abbott is widely known as an outspoken socially conservative Catholic who opposes abortion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_rudd
Rudd is vocal about his Christianity and has given a number of prominent interviews to the Australian religious press on the topic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_howard
Religion Anglican[1]

That is what the constitution protects, freedom to follow any religion they choose which makes it secular.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_II_of_the_United_Kingdom

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_II_of_the_United_Kingdom
Elizabeth also holds the positions of ... Supreme Governor of the Church of England (styled Defender of the Faith)

Draw your own inferences. Our head of state is "Defender of the Faith", a clear throwback to the days of the Crusades, it's just disgusting. Both of our choices for prime minister are devout Christians. Where's the separation of church and state there? But it gets better...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_II_of_the_United_Kingdom Queen Elizabeth's australian title does not include Defender of The Faith, due to the fact that the country is secular. I hope you fail your citizenship test on that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillsong_Church#Connect_Groups
The Hillsong Church has attracted support from high profile politicians, especially from the conservative Liberal Party of Australia. The Prime Minister, John Howard, opened its Baulkham Hills campus and the Federal Treasurer, Peter Costello, spoke at its annual conferences in July 2004 and 2005. Mark Latham, the former Leader of the Opposition, declined Hillsong's invitation to the 2004 conference,[4] although Bob Carr, the then Premier of New South Wales, (from the Australian Labor Party), did attend the 2005 conference.

The former New South Wales Liberal Party state director, Scott Morrison (to November 2004), is a prominent member of Hillsong Church.

Again, freedom of religion, enshrined by a secular constitution.

 

[_dhj_]

Actually church attendance and religion in general is definately 'in'. Anyone that attends university, for example, can observe the trend on their campus.

Yes it's true that progress of 'civilization' over the long run is causally connected to its secularisation. That is the worrying thing - we are currently moving backwards as a civilization.

 

[jb_nc]

Actually church attendance and religion in general is definately 'in'. Anyone that attends university, for example, can observe the trend on their campus. .

Then so is Marxism and not shaving your pits.

The EU people handing you a flyer for a free BBQ that's packed, doesn't necessarily mean that religion is hip again.

 

[Spirits]

That is what the constitution protects, freedom to follow any religion they choose which makes it secular.

This is correct. Because Australia is secular, people can choose whatever religion they want - including the politicians. However, they are adopting these views as individuals. There are no Christian scriptures enshrined anywhere in the Australian constitution. Now compare this to Saudi Arabia, where the Quaran is enshrined in the constitution.

 

[xXeMoxXxCoRexX]

Actually church attendance and religion in general is definately 'in'. Anyone that attends university, for example, can observe the trend on their campus.

Yes it's true that progress of 'civilization' over the long run is causally connected to its secularisation. That is the worrying thing - we are currently moving backwards as a civilization.

I agree!
Look how much more civilised Europe is than Australia!

 

[spiny norman]

Howard and Rudd are Anglican. FACT.
Rudd is vocal about his Christianity in public life. FACT.

Maybe, but that doesn't make this a religious state. There is nothing that says the Prime Minister has to be Christian - in fact, Latham was agnostic (and I think Gillard may be also? She's very private though, so who knows).

Given 60-something% of Australians are Christians, it is a fair representation for the Prime Minister to be likewise.

 

[iamsickofyear12]

Actually church attendance and religion in general is definately 'in'. Anyone that attends university, for example, can observe the trend on their campus.

Church attendance has been declining for a long time. They just seem to be having somewhat of a revival because they have found new ways of tricking people into going with music and fun and less actual religious content. Terrorism and war also helps.

Some churches may be getting more people but others are really struggling and I don't trust any statistics released by churches or religious groups claiming high attendance. We are still heading in the opposite direction. More people than ever before have no religion and more people than ever consider their religion less important.

I have never met anyone who thinks religion is 'in'.

 

[sthcross.dude]

I think the statistics are also exaggerated by people that identify themselves as christians but are only christains in a very vague sense. ie they dont go to church, read the bible, do anything the bible says to ect.

 

[iamsickofyear12]

I think the statistics are also exaggerated by people that identify themselves as christians but are only christains in a very vague sense. ie they dont go to church, read the bible, do anything the bible says to ect.

That is true.

In the last census (the last couple in fact) myself and my 2 siblings went down as catholic despite that fact that all of us are strong athiests because my dad is the one that filled in the forms.

 

[bshoc]

I'm not surprised that the citizenship test contains thinly veiled Christian propaganda.

It's not propaganda if it's true ..

 

[bshoc]

Australia will be a christian country so long as the majority of the populace are christians ..

 

[sthcross.dude]

Australia will be a christian country so long as the majority of the populace are christians ..

I wonder how long it will take 'till that is the case. If current trends to continue we may see in our lifetimes modern, developed countries where the majority of people reject religion. I think the trend towards secularism can only gather pace as technology and education improve and religion causes so much unessary bloodshed around the world.

I wonder if people we look back on religion as the scam it is in the history classes of the future...

 

[bshoc]

I wonder how long it will take 'till that is the case. If current trends to continue we may see in our lifetimes modern, developed countries where the majority of people reject religion.

You continue to make factually untrue statements at an alarming rate, modern and developed are the outcomes of a christian society, just because something declines 0.02% one year does not indicate it will decline the next, even in long term trend terms.

Society needs an undelying value system for stability, stability leads to progress, the leftie, secular-humanist rubbish most probably proposed by you cannot hope to fill or maintain such a system.

I think the trend towards secularism can only gather pace as technology and education improve and religion causes so much unessary bloodshed around the world.

Secularism has caused far more unessery bloodshed than christianity (mainly 13th century roman catholicism) could have hoped to, other religions such as islam perhaps, not christianity.

I wonder if people we look back on religion as the scam it is in the history classes of the future...

Unlikely.

 

[sthcross.dude]

You continue to make factually untrue statements at an alarming rate, modern and developed are the outcomes of a christian society, just because something declines 0.02% one year does not indicate it will decline the next, even in long term trend terms.

No but it doesnt mean it wont either. Its just a prediction based on available data, obviously neither of us can actually predict the future.

Society needs an undelying value system for stability, stability leads to progress, the leftie, secular-humanist rubbish most probably proposed by you cannot hope to fill or maintain such a system.

You make it sound like "leftie humanist rubbish" is the only alternative value system. Secularism and conservative family values are not mutually exclusive. You make the totally unsubstantiated assumption that secularism cannot achieve stability. Have developed countries like Australia not become more stable and properous as they have become more secular?

Secularism has caused far more unessery bloodshed than christianity (mainly 13th century roman catholicism) could have hoped to, other religions such as islam perhaps, not christianity.

ummm yeh. examples? When has secularism caused blooshed? Islam has probably caused more, but only because its values are crazier. However, the ideas behind Islam of an unproven god are just as far fetched as christianity.

 

[bshoc]

You make it sound like "leftie humanist rubbish" is the only alternative value system. Secularism and conservative family values are not mutually exclusive. You make the totally unsubstantiated assumption that secularism cannot achieve stability. Have developed countries like Australia not become more stable and properous as they have become more secular?

No, the two factors are not linked.

Secularism and conservative family values may not be mutually exclusive, but common world experience shows that they are very close to this.

ummm yeh. examples? When has secularism caused blooshed?

* Mao's China
* Stalinist Russia
* Nazi Germany
* And virtually every other leftist/secularist "reformation" in the world ..

Islam has probably caused more, but only because its values are crazier. However, the ideas behind Islam of an unproven god are just as far fetched as christianity.

Again you're using flawed logic and asking me to assume something flawed as true ..

 

[sthcross.dude]

No, the two factors are not linked.

Secularism and conservative family values may not be mutually exclusive, but common world experience shows that they are very close to this.

"common values." in other words your values. you have no evidence to support this proposterous assumption.

* Mao's China
* Stalinist Russia
* Nazi Germany
* And virtually every other leftist/secularist "reformation" in the world ..

Secularism itself did not cause this, crazy leaders with aspirations of racial supremacy and world domination did.

Again you're using flawed logic and asking me to assume something flawed as true ..

I was saying the proof of Islam and Christianity is equally flawed, even if Islam generally has "crazier" values. In what sense is it more reasonable to believe in the unproven Christian god than the unproven muslim god?

 

[ellen.louise]

I was saying the proof of Islam and Christianity is equally flawed, even if Islam generally has "crazier" values. In what sense is it more reasonable to believe in the unproven Christian god than the unproven muslim god?

The whole point of both is that it's not proven. It doesn't take guts to put your faith in the existance of something you've seen.