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Is Australia a secular state? (1 Viewer)

Spirits

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I'm pretty sure that most people think it is, but for some reason, in that citizenship test, if you say that Australian values are based on secularism, then you are marked wrong. The "correct" answer is 'the Judo-Christian model'. On top of that, someone I know is adamant that Australia is NOT a secular state. I always tell them that s116 of the constitution makes it one.

Does anyone know a technical definition of the term "secular state"?

Cheers.
 

Captain Gh3y

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Is this legal studies homework?

Yes, yes it is a secular state, it has no established religion. Greece for example is a non-secular state because it has an official religion.
 

sthcross.dude

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Tough question. I dont think there is any internationally accepted definition. I think we are secular in that at least in principal there is a separation of church and state and the bible is not directly incorporated into our laws. As opposed to fundamentalist Islamic states where their law is derived from the Quaran (yeh i cant spell it, dont care, fuck the quaran).

Personally I think we should be more secular.

"Religion has no place within these walls, just as facts and reason have no place within organised religion."
 

iamsickofyear12

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Spirits said:
I'm pretty sure that most people think it is, but for some reason, in that citizenship test, if you say that Australian values are based on secularism, then you are marked wrong. The "correct" answer is 'the Judo-Christian model'. On top of that, someone I know is adamant that Australia is NOT a secular state. I always tell them that s116 of the constitution makes it one.
That was a bad question. I think it was also specifically related to what Australian values were founded on not what they are now.

Australia is a secular state now.
 

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I'm not surprised that the citizenship test contains thinly veiled Christian propaganda.
 

jb_nc

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australia has been a secular state since federation.

its in the constitution
 

jb_nc

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sthcross.dude said:
lol

makes me look like at tard if thats true
§116 and I quote:

The Commonwealth shall not make any law for establishing any religion, or for imposing any religious observance, or for prohibiting the free exercise of any religion, and no religious test shall be required as a qualification for any office or public trust under the Commonwealth.
 

xXeMoxXxCoRexX

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HOW can you say Australia is a secular state when it's controlled by redneck fundamentalists? It's secular in no more than name.

Both the Prime Minister AND the Opposition leader are devout Anglicans, and the latter is vocal about his religion, eg. "A Christian perspective on contemporary policy debates... must be argued." Look at Tony Abbott, a Catholic extremist who constantly pushes his dogmatic views into the public agenda, such as his deep desire to deny women freedom over their bodies.

Church attendance is at record highs across the nation, and institutions such as Hillsong have enormous social influence with links to businesses, powerful individuals and Government institutions. This is evidenced by the pushing of teaching creation in our schools.

Australians as a whole are an ignorant people (at least the Anglo majority are) who clearly do not value science or other enlightenment principles. This is why Australia will never be secular.
 
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xXeMoxXxCoRexX

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While we all agree the citizenship test itself is entirely racist and immoral (and now unconstitutional), that question takes it to a whole new level. It's absolutely outrageous that Australia should acknowledge the Judeo-Christian heritage of its values. We live in a multi-religious, multicultural society and such acknowledgements are just part of the reason that individuals of other religions constantly feel marginalised and victimised in our society.

Our head of state, the Queen, is essentially the head of the Anglican Church. That's right, our own head of state is the head of a religious body. How can you say we're secular? That our own head of state runs a large organised religious body is a throwback to the middle ages.

In an increasingly secular world (just look at the benefits Europe is reaping from secularisation) Australia is, as it is on so many other issues, a major embarrasment. You should be ashamed, if you weren't so busy praying to your fairytale gods and preventing society from becoming more open, liberal and tolerant.
 
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jb_nc

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HOW can you say Australia is a secular state when it's controlled by redneck fundamentalists? It's secular in no more than name.

Both the Prime Minister AND the Opposition leader are devout Anglicans, and the latter is vocal about his religion, eg. "A Christian perspective on contemporary policy debates... must be argued." Look at Tony Abbott, a Catholic extremist who constantly pushes his dogmatic views into the public agenda, such as his deep desire to deny women freedom over their bodies.

Church attendance is at record highs across the nation, and institutions such as Hillsong have enormous social influence with links to businesses, powerful individuals and Government institutions. This is evidenced by the pushing of teaching creation in our schools.

While we all agree the citizenship test itself is entirely racist and immoral, that question takes it to a whole new level. It's absolutely outrageous that Australia should acknowledge the Judeo-Christian heritage of its values. We live in a multi-religious, multicultural society and such acknowledgements are just part of the reason that individuals of other religions constantly feel marginalised and victimised in our society.

Our head of state, the Queen, is essentially the head of the Anglican Church. That's right, our own head of state is the head of a religious body. How can you say we're secular? That our own head of state runs a large organised religious body is a throwback to the middle ages.

In an increasingly secular world (just look at the benefits Europe is reaping from secularisation) Australia is, as it is on so many other issues, a major embarrasment. You should be ashamed, if you weren't so busy praying to your fairytale gods and preventing society from becoming more open, liberal and tolerant.
have you met osama bin-laden. the far left in the west and he far right in the midlde-east have much to talk about

also church attendance across the nation is at, if anything, record lows. cite please. cite where you found the "benefits secularisation has across western europe" (or at least tell us about and prove it; economic or social). cite where you found this information about "hillsong's social influence"

you say things like it's a fact but in reality it's made-up bullshit
 
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xXeMoxXxCoRexX

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jb_nc said:
have you met osama bin-laden

the far left in the west and the far right in the midlde-east have much to talk about

also church attendance across the nation is at, if anything, record lows. cite please.

cite what "benifits secularisation has across western europe"

cite hillsong's "social influence"
The implicit RACISM in your post against Islam is yet another example of the closed-mindedness of your average 'strayan battler.

EDIT:

Howard and Rudd are Anglican. FACT.
Rudd is vocal about his Christianity in public life. FACT.
Abbott is a Catholic who pushes his dogmatic agenda into politics. FACT.
Hillsong is wealthy and powerful. FACT.
The citizenship test is racist. FACT.
Non-Christians suffer discrimination. FACT.
The Queen is the head of the Anglican Church. FACT.
The rest of the world is becoming increasingly secular while Australia lags behind, yet again. FACT.
 
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jb_nc

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xXeMoxXxCoRexX said:
The implicit RACISM in your post against Islam is yet another example of the closed-mindedness of your average 'strayan battler.
Yes, well done.

Still waiting for the citations here.

Also I'm hardly a "strayan battler", lol.

xXeMoxXxCoRexX said:
EDIT:

Howard and Rudd are Anglican. FACT.
Rudd is vocal about his Christianity in public life. FACT.
Abbott is a Catholic who pushes his dogmatic agenda into politics. FACT.
Hillsong is wealthy and powerful. FACT.
The citizenship test is racist. FACT.
Non-Christians suffer discrimination. FACT.
The Queen is the head of the Anglican Church. FACT.
The rest of the world is becoming increasingly secular while Australia lags behind, yet again. FACT.
Saying "FACT" after a statement does not make it a fact. FACT.

Cite your sources please.
 

xXeMoxXxCoRexX

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me said:
Howard and Rudd are Anglican. FACT.
Rudd is vocal about his Christianity in public life. FACT.
Abbott is a Catholic who pushes his dogmatic agenda into politics. FACT.
Hillsong is wealthy and powerful. FACT.
The citizenship test is racist. FACT.
Non-Christians suffer discrimination. FACT.
The Queen is the head of the Anglican Church. FACT.
The rest of the world is becoming increasingly secular while Australia lags behind, yet again. FACT.
Got it all from wikipedia. Look it up yourself, if you know how to navigate to anything other than stormfront.
 

jb_nc

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xXeMoxXxCoRexX said:
Got it all from wikipedia. Look it up yourself, if you know how to navigate to anything other than stormfront.
No you didn't. Calling bullshit on that.

Those are opinions wikipedia wouldn't say "The citizenship test is racist", that's your opinion, not a FACT. FACT.

Also that's not what I asked you to cite could you go back and read my post, tia.
 
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Spirits

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it doesn't matter that certain ministers are Christian, Christianity is not an "established" religion in Australia - therefore it is a secular state.
 

xXeMoxXxCoRexX

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jb_nc said:
No you didn't. Calling bullshit on that.
o rly?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Abbott
Abbott is widely known as an outspoken socially conservative Catholic who opposes abortion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_rudd
Rudd is vocal about his Christianity and has given a number of prominent interviews to the Australian religious press on the topic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_howard
Religion Anglican[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_II_of_the_United_Kingdom
Elizabeth also holds the positions of ... Supreme Governor of the Church of England (styled Defender of the Faith)

Draw your own inferences. Our head of state is "Defender of the Faith", a clear throwback to the days of the Crusades, it's just disgusting. Both of our choices for prime minister are devout Christians. Where's the separation of church and state there? But it gets better...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillsong_Church#Connect_Groups
The Hillsong Church has attracted support from high profile politicians, especially from the conservative Liberal Party of Australia. The Prime Minister, John Howard, opened its Baulkham Hills campus and the Federal Treasurer, Peter Costello, spoke at its annual conferences in July 2004 and 2005. Mark Latham, the former Leader of the Opposition, declined Hillsong's invitation to the 2004 conference,[4] although Bob Carr, the then Premier of New South Wales, (from the Australian Labor Party), did attend the 2005 conference.

The former New South Wales Liberal Party state director, Scott Morrison (to November 2004), is a prominent member of Hillsong Church.
 

jb_nc

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xXeMoxXxCoRexX said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillsong_Church#Connect_Groups
The Hillsong Church has attracted support from high profile politicians, especially from the conservative Liberal Party of Australia. The Prime Minister, John Howard, opened its Baulkham Hills campus and the Federal Treasurer, Peter Costello, spoke at its annual conferences in July 2004 and 2005. Mark Latham, the former Leader of the Opposition, declined Hillsong's invitation to the 2004 conference,[4] although Bob Carr, the then Premier of New South Wales, (from the Australian Labor Party), did attend the 2005 conference.

The former New South Wales Liberal Party state director, Scott Morrison (to November 2004), is a prominent member of Hillsong Church.
support != influence. Peter Costello voted for the legalisation of RU486... yes, they must be very influential to have him vote YES.

also i didnt ask you to cite any of that shit besides the hillsong one go back and read my post and do that please.
 
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xXeMoxXxCoRexX

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jb_nc said:
Those are opinions wikipedia wouldn't say "The citizenship test is racist", that's your opinion, not a FACT. FACT.

Also that's not what I asked you to cite could you go back and read my post, tia.
I was drawing an inference; the test demands applicants to acknowledge that this country's values are derived from a particular religious tradition.

Therefore those of other religion or no religion must be marginalised or discriminated against. It's just a reflection of the sick mindset of those in power, dragging Australia back to the middle ages.
 

jb_nc

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xXeMoxXxCoRexX said:
I was drawing an inference; the test demands applicants to acknowledge that this country's values are derived from a particular religious tradition.

Therefore those of other religion or no religion must be marginalised or discriminated against.
"I was drawing an inference"

ok cool that's great you can infer but inferring doesn't make it true.

joe bloggs says the test isn't racist, how is that any less relevant than your opinion... and what does it have to do with australia being a secular state or not

also please show me where church attendances are the "highest on record"
 

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