Does God exist? (12 Viewers)
- Thread starter MoonlightSonata
- Start date
Can I ask you a question btw? Do you accept the big bang theory? As far as I understand, from observations we have made it appears that time began sometime around 13.7 billion years ago with a 'big bang', all of the components of our universe having existed since time=0 (the amount of matter/energy the same). What caused time to begin? You can't have a 'cause' without time, so before time there is no need for a cause. There was no moment before this moment, this moment was time=0, to ask what came before time=0 is to ask what letter comes before a in the alphabet.
If nothing came before 'a' then 'a' mustve always been there.Enteebee said:
I can ask what came before , so i will
And if nothing did come before 'a', then 'a' has always been there.
I think the big bang theory is the most credible scientific explanation Ive ever heard...its just when working back to as you called it "a"....it loses some credibility. Basic foundation gone.
If those forces are what we base our beliefs upon , then they NEED to be a part of our reality.Enteebee said:
I mean , if those forces are the aformentioned 'a' , then i definately think they need to be a part of our reality.
You know when you spend time with someone? You're with them , you're being with them.
Space/Matter etc have been there since time=0, that is effectively "always", since time has existed space/matter have existed. There is no 'before' time any more than there is a square circle. There was no time before the big bang, it just "was", then time existed.
It seems to work pretty well without a god.
Just sounds like a blanket, fuzzy term to me... I doubt you have any more a grasp of a meaning than I do.
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No, I'm saying that space/matter/energy etc exist at time=0, they don't "come" into being, they just are there, they're reality.*TRUE* said:
I don't think "being with god" brings any meaning to your life in reality, to me at least it is completely unclear what 'being' with god would entail and I cannot imagine how you could explain it through analogy to 'being' with a person.*TRUE* said:
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Space, energy and matter have always existed , they are eternal?Enteebee said:
And yet time is so pivotal now? everything has a start and a finish that i can observe...God says he has no beginning nor end.
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^CoSMic DoRiS^^
makes the woosh noises
The thing with big bang theory is that it doesn't attempt to explain the actual origin point of the universe, it's an explanation for the expansion of the universe after that point. (Someone correct me if I'm failing mah science here). We don't actually know anything about the exact moment of the "creation" of the universe.*TRUE* said:If nothing came before 'a' then 'a' mustve always been there.
I can ask what came before , so i will
And if nothing did come before 'a', then 'a' has always been there.
I think the big bang theory is the most credible scientific explanation Ive ever heard...its just when working back to as you called it "a"....it loses some credibility. Basic foundation gone.
We just as atheists do not attempt to fill that gap in knowledge with a Creator, because there's no more proof that one exists than we have information about any other means of the universe coming into existence.
Idk how well I'm explaining this btw so i'll let someone with more expertise take it from there.
What origin point of the universe? This idea of a 'point' seems to be stuck in the thinking of time existing. The way it works is like this... Space, matter, energy etc exist at time=0 - Then time begins. There is no 'before' then, there is no 'time' before the begining of time.
^CoSMic DoRiS^^
makes the woosh noises
But if there's no before how can you say "then time begins"? It would have to have just always been.Enteebee said:
This is where I get confused.
If you say "always" that implies time has already begun. What I mean by 'then time begins' is that time goes from time=0 to time=>0, time=0 is a state where we can't talk about before, it isn't that it has "always" existed it just exists.
^CoSMic DoRiS^^
makes the woosh noises
Oh ok.Enteebee said:
I think I need to stop thinking about time the way religious people think about God. Or I need to start thinking that way. Eh.
Never mind I know what you mean now, it's just one of those things I take a while to get :/
Well, obviously in the end this all comes down to a value judgement... but I personally can't see myself valuing 'being with god' just because he's god, unless obviously by his decree. It sounds like words that have no more meaning than to say "the meaning in my life is to be", well... you are being... and you are with god, what then is the meaning of being, or the meaning of being with god?