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2008 Presidential Election - Obama v McCain (3 Viewers)

Who would you vote for?

  • Barrack Obama

    Votes: 381 76.0%
  • John Mccain

    Votes: 120 24.0%

  • Total voters
    501

Iron

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Her acceptance speeches really were awesome though, but I lost faith in the ticket during the VP debate. There was no miracle

I find this unusual, as God sent McCain the little hurricane to scare bush away from the convention and let him look presidential and good in a crisis by calling on Americans to sacrifice for disaster relief etc
Why have you forsaken us!?
/rip shirt/
 
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Trefoil

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I found Palin's convention speeches divisive, polarising, and most of all, downright misleading.

Up until the Republican Convention I'd generally held a semblance of respect for McCain as a moderate Republican. It was rather downhill from there as I learnt more about him, and his actions didn't match the media's then slightly favourable image of him. (What the fuck was he thinking by listening to a dickhead like Steve Schmidt?). The reverse was true for Obama, who I was initially very wary of but grew to find level-headed and presidential (I was a partial McCain supporter for the first half of the year).

People like Senator Olympia Snowe and Colin Powell are good examples of actual moderate Republicans and 'mavericks' - the type of people that could get the GOP back on track. Unfortunately, I predict they'll continue to be sidelined and marginalised instead.
 

Captain Hero

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Palin on "and they're getting all upset about the terrorists having rights"

Made me really really mad.
 

Iron

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Back on track?! A botched war and inherited economic housing bubble. Hardly an ideological crisis. The truth is that the GOP has had a crisis of identity since the USSR collapsed and they kinda lost their national security edge. September 11 gave it back long enough to ensure reelection, but I dont think global terrorism has stuck the same way.

And Powell was so maverick that he compromised all his integrity by feeding the UN that shameful, sexed up presentation on Iraq's WMDs, let alone failing to persuade Bush against invasion, or even ensuring that the invasion force was of sufficient size and strategy
 

hsb39

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Trefoil said:
I found Palin's convention speeches divisive, polarising, and most of all, downright misleading.

Up until the Republican Convention I'd generally held a semblance of respect for McCain as a moderate Republican. It was rather downhill from there as I learnt more about him, and his actions didn't match the media's then slightly favourable image of him. (What the fuck was he thinking by listening to a dickhead like Steve Schmidt?). The reverse was true for Obama, who I was initially very wary of but grew to find level-headed and presidential (I was a partial McCain supporter for the first half of the year).

People like Senator Olympia Snowe and Colin Powell are good examples of actual moderate Republicans and 'mavericks' - the type of people that could get the GOP back on track. Unfortunately, I predict they'll continue to be sidelined and marginalised instead.
Did you hear about Colin Powell supporting Obama? It was just on the news.
 

Trefoil

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Iron said:
Back on track?! A botched war and inherited economic housing bubble. Hardly an ideological crisis. The truth is that the GOP has had a crisis of identity since the USSR collapsed and they kinda lost their national security edge. September 11 gave it back long enough to ensure reelection, but I dont think global terrorism has stuck the same way.
That's true, but there's another aspect to the GOP that seemed to emerge concurrently, or as a consequence; suspicion of intelligence and knowledge.

And Powell was so maverick that he compromised all his integrity by feeding the UN that shameful, sexed up presentation on Iraq's WMDs, let alone failing to persuade Bush against invasion, or even ensuring that the invasion force was of sufficient size and strategy
Well, Powell is a Republican. Just because I think he's a moderate one doesn't mean I think he's right; he's still a Republican, and in general I disagree with their principles. But the gap between my views and Powell's is something I can reconcile - similar to how I could theoretically reconcile voting for the Liberals if ALP pissed me off too much (e.g. this new Internet censorship bullshit).

But to be fair, he did spend a lot of effort trying to convince Bush not to invade. And he has admitted his UN speech was based on falty data and was a low point in his career. And if we're talking strategy, McCain didn't even believe there was a possibility of sectarian conflict between Shi'ia and Sunni, so I think that trumps undercalculations in troop deployment levels (even though Powell was the engineer behind the concept of overwhelming force and unanimous international support and cooperation to begin with, based on his Vietnam experience).
 
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hsb39

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Trefoil said:
Well, Powell is a Republican. Just because I think he's a moderate one doesn't mean I think he's right; he's still a Republican, and in general I disagree with their principles (more than I do, say, the Australian Liberals).
That does sound like you won't support Powell just because he is a Republican. I don't really know much about him to be honest.
 

Trefoil

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"Won't support"? He's not running for president or senate or anything. I mean, I'd support his appointment to Obama's cabinet as seems likely.

I just don't get why he still calls himself a Republican, that's all. He's admitted himself that the party is a shadow of its former self. It's that shadow I don't support, but it's hard not associate him with it if he's still calling himself a Republican.

Maybe he still thinks he can reform the party from within, but he felt that way in the 90's, too...
 

Iron

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Trefoil said:
That's true, but there's another aspect to the GOP that seemed to emerge concurrently, or as a consequence; suspicion of intelligence and knowledge.
I'll just let that hang there a while...

..

k? You hack

Vote for the Pro-Knoweldge party 08!
Na man, knowledge's a choice
FUCK YOU
 

hsb39

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Trefoil said:
"Won't support"? He's not running for president or senate or anything. I mean, I'd support his appointment to Obama's cabinet as seems likely.

I just don't get why he still calls himself a Republican, that's all. He's admitted himself that the party is a shadow of its former self. It's that shadow I don't support, but it's hard not associate him with it if he's still calling himself a Republican.

Maybe he still thinks he can reform the party from within, but he felt that way in the 90's, too...
What I meant was that it seemed like you were using his party rather than his opinions to judge him. I do think that he could be in Obama's cabinet (he's sounding more like Vinnick to me every minute).
 

Trefoil

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Iron said:
I'll just let that hang there a while...

..

k? You hack

Vote for the Pro-Knoweldge party 08!
Na man, knowledge's a choice
FUCK YOU
Oh man, look, instead of giving you some more words to try and twist and take offence at, how about I just point you to the Republicans who feel as I do about their own party (we'll skip Powell since he's all over the news currently):

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/16/AR2008101602538.html?nav=hcmodule

The well-fed Right now cultivates ignorance as a political strategy and humiliates itself when its brightest sons seek sanctuary in the solitude of personal honor.

The truth few wish to utter is that the GOP has abandoned many conservatives, who mostly nurse their angst in private. Those chickens we keep hearing about have indeed come home to roost. Years of pandering to the extreme wing -- the "kooks" the senior Buckley tried to separate from the right -- have created a party no longer attentive to its principles.
 

Iron

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Posted by a demmykrat. Will not read. Get thee behind me, "knoweldge"
 

Iron

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Also Obama couldnt go three rounds with winnie the pooh
-Spoken by former Democrat supporter .:true
 

Trefoil

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Um, no... Kathleen Parker and Chris Buckley are long-time Republicans.

And David Brooks is an independent: http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700265548,00.html

I'm not saying that you should listen to them because they are long-time conservatives. I'm saying that it's not at all a stretch to suggest that the GOP has become anti-intellectual. They simply provide different parts of the picture in understanding why.

It does no good to absolutely refuse to consider the notion that the GOP might be heading for a bad place intellectually, and to vehemently renounce anybody who does (in fact, it's rather ironic).
 
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sam04u

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McCain's support of the recent bail out plan, and buying up of bad investments, and other such is the most broken system of all.

Socialism for the wealthy.
Capitalism for the poor.

08ama.
 

Trefoil

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McCain's system seems an attempt at creating a 'moderate GOP' it would seem, but it just ends up being an impotent mix-up of strange free market principles and superficially socialised structures. Very forced - not at all what they desire, but they realise they need change to win votes.
 

Iron

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Looks like no way out for McCain. On current projections, he needs to pinch about 100 electoral votes from Obama to get over the line.
Too close (Miss + NC) will give him +25
Marginal Dem (Nevada, Florida, Ohio) will give +52
Needs moderate Dems (Colorado, NM, Virginia) for remaining +27

Total wipeout. Read somewhere that McCain needs to personally find, capture and turn in Osama to Bush on day before election

/horserace
 

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