2007 Federal Election - Coalition or Labor/Howard or Rudd? (2 Viewers)

[withoutaface]

Every degree/trade in University or TAFE fulfils a purpose and given that Universities were established as centres of thought, it would be redundant to claim that Arts degrees are irrelevant. Many courses in humanities, arts and natural sciences could be deemed of little value with regards to employment, but it doesn't make them less relevant because they don't generate greater profits for businesses. Without them, scientific and cultural advancement would be slowed. Universities primarily are there to create thinkers, so bashing people that actually fulfil its purpose makes no sense to me. There is nothing wrong with people entering the workforce through University - a huge amount of people use it as a means to enhance their career prospects - but another significant amount of people also use it to enhance their knowledge, which shouldn't come under attack by angry people that think University is ONLY there to create workers.

And this is off topic and boring, so [more words here].

If you're doing it to enhance your career prospects, you're rendering, through your better education, a valuable service to the rest of the community. If you're doing it to enhance your knowledge, you're providing a service which is only of benefit to you, and there's no reason the taxpayers should fund such self interested pursuits.

 

[Mabs]

Vote Libertarian! Heh, I will when there's a serious party.

 

[withoutaface]

Vote Libertarian! Heh, I will when there's a serious party.

At least vote 1 LDP in the senate this year, if they don't get up your vote will just go to your next preference.

 

[Lachlan18]

If you're doing it to enhance your career prospects, you're rendering, through your better education, a valuable service to the rest of the community. If you're doing it to enhance your knowledge, you're providing a service which is only of benefit to you, and there's no reason the taxpayers should fund such self interested pursuits.

Taxpayers won't have to fork out the entire bill when these "self-interested pursuits" will inevitably be paid through via the HECS system. Enhancing one's knowledge is akin to getting "better education", and so I don't see how one is more valuable than the other, other than the fact that one is more profitable to a business and one is not. And even then, if someone is studying business, then they're often not studying it for the greater good of the country, but more likely for their own self interested pursuits also. One could argue that welfare systems should be removed also as it props up people that are no longer considered "assets", or scrap the medicare system, as people are using the taxpayer to go to the GP to seek their own medical advice, etc.

I don't understand why there is so much antagonism, and I also don't understand why it's a matter of caring. Taxpayer funded money will always be spent; if we complained about where it went all the time, we'd never end up spending it.

 

[Lachlan18]

Actually, I can't be bothered continuing this debate. It's boring and this country has too many angry people attacking Arts degrees anyway, so I'll agree to disagree. I'm going away from this forum forever to live my life as it is! Free from all this hostility, with great happy friends and family! <3 Adios forever! *logs out 4 lyfe*

 

[Lebanese Lover]

Although you claim to have left the forums in your little tantrum I still think this pathetic little diatribe needs to be discredited.

Taxpayers won't have to fork out the entire bill when these "self-interested pursuits" will inevitably be paid through via the HECS system. Enhancing one's knowledge is akin to getting "better education", and so I don't see how one is more valuable than the other, other than the fact that one is more profitable to a business and one is not.

It has already been explained to you that study for productive careers will benefit others wheras study of things like the arts purely for the purposes of your own edification do not. Study it if you want to waste your time, just dont expect government support. Yes, HECS is a form of government support. You are not paying the full cost of your degree and you are recieving an interest free loan.

And even then, if someone is studying business, then they're often not studying it for the greater good of the country, but more likely for their own self interested pursuits also.

Of course, business people are naturally greedy capitalist pigs, unlike benevolent arts students. Give us a break. Although business people are producing goods and services for their own profit, they are still producing something that is ultimately of value to others. Unlike arts for the sake of arts types.

One could argue that welfare systems should be removed also as it props up people that are no longer considered "assets", or scrap the medicare system, as people are using the taxpayer to go to the GP to seek their own medical advice, etc.

Umm yes, I would argue that. The welfare system is highly wasteful, as are government supported arts degrees. Seems a fair analogy.

I don't understand why there is so much antagonism, and I also don't understand why it's a matter of caring. Taxpayer funded money will always be spent; if we complained about where it went all the time, we'd never end up spending it.

Perhaps if so much money wasnt being wasted we wouldn't be paying so much tax in the first place!

 

[Iron]

What a week. It would be glorious to smash into a 60:40 lead.
Howard seems so very rattled. It's not right. He may desert. World construction... impoding. Body... rejecting.

 

[jb_nc]

What a week. It would be glorious to smash into a 60:40 lead.
Howard seems so very rattled. It's not right. He may desert. World construction... impoding. Body... rejecting.

I think the odds for a Coalition win are still very blown out. 60/40 would never happen in TPP, though.

Granted if Libs/Nat do win this election it would be an unbelievable comeback and Howard's coup de grâce, I think they have better a better chance than the polls and odds dictate. I think a lot of people are like me and still haven't chosen who they'll vote for until closer to the date.

 

[_dhj_]

I think the odds for a Coalition win are still very blown out. 60/40 would never happen in TPP, though.

Granted if Libs/Nat do win this election it would be an unbelievable comeback and Howard's coup de grâce, I think they have better a better chance than the polls and odds dictate. I think a lot of people are like me and still haven't chosen who they'll vote for until closer to the date.

Nah I think Liberal chances are far lower than you would suspect. The fact that Howard has been PM since we were young has lulled our generation into thinking that his reign will last forever. But older generations are quite familiar with changes in government. They sense that the change ought and will happen this election.

 

[Rafy]

I think those are good odds for the Libs.

I still think the Libs are in a much better position that the polls disclose.

"Sportingbet Australia CEO Michael Sullivan made the point that the Coalition odds haven’t been so long for the past 11 years.

“In years of betting on the Federal Election, we haven’t seen a political party written off by punters the way Howard and the Coalition have been in the past two months,” he said, “it’s unprecedented.”

http://www.ozpolitics.info/election2007/betchart-probs.png
http://www.ozpolitics.info/election2007/betchart-odds.png

Oh and the coalition recovery stalled, polls are moving back to Labor: http://www.ozpolitics.info/election2007/pollchart-aggregated2007September.png

 

[Lindsay Tanner]

http://www.ozpolitics.info/election2007/betchart-probs.png
http://www.ozpolitics.info/election2007/betchart-odds.png

Interesting.

 

[Iron]

Nah I think Liberal chances are far lower than you would suspect. The fact that Howard has been PM since we were young has lulled our generation into thinking that his reign will last forever. But older generations are quite familiar with changes in government. They sense that the change ought and will happen this election.

I think I was reading in the weekend Australian that 18-35s are 4.something million voters, cf 5.something 35+. They were saying that 2007 may be the one where gen-ys start to seriously rival the baby boomers in political power.
If this government is thrown out, Australian politics will have been re-written by us - The coming of age, dawning of a new era, free ride for similar bloodthirsty young lawyers like us everywhere.

an edit later: jesus is using his mind-reading powers for bad

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

"Sportingbet Australia CEO Michael Sullivan made the point that the Coalition odds haven’t been so long for the past 11 years.

“In years of betting on the Federal Election, we haven’t seen a political party written off by punters the way Howard and the Coalition have been in the past two months,” he said, “it’s unprecedented.”

http://www.ozpolitics.info/election2007/betchart-probs.png
http://www.ozpolitics.info/election2007/betchart-odds.png

Oh and the coalition recovery stalled, polls are moving back to Labor: http://www.ozpolitics.info/election2007/pollchart-aggregated2007September.png

I don't get it. It all seems very inconsistent.

 

[jimmayyy]

Haha poor bitter deluded libs.... truth is, you guys have no chance of winning the election and howard has no chance of winning in Bennelong. That's undeniable.

not at all a "poor deluded lib" and well aware of the fact his chances are slim, i just think keating was a fuckwit.

 

[Ubik]

It's going to be close.

Fuck polls. People are apathetic and comfortable, and come election day Howard is the safe option. He'll recover a lot on the day.

Rudd's performance has also been impressive. He's almost mediocre and bland enough to pull it off.

If the government hadn't introduced workchoices they would easily have won another term. They pwned themselves.

 

[Nebuchanezzar]

Fuck polls. People are apathetic and comfortable, and come election day Howard is the safe option. He'll recover a lot on the day.

Even if that were true (and I don't believe it is), he's admitted that he won't be leader for a whole term. People don't seem to want Peter "20%" Costello to be running their country, and I certainly think that'll factor in on election day too.

And when polls are consistently high like they are here, I don't really think that logic you're using will hold. Surely if it were true, then Latham would have lost in a 60/40 scenario, no?

 

[chicky_pie]

my friend's 6 yr old sister got a enrolment form to enrol for this year's election :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

 

[withoutaface]

If Howard loses Bennelong I will eat my hat and post it on youtube. Anyone who wants to hold me to that is welcome to do so.

EDIT: And I'd challenge _dhj_ to match my offer if he's so certain that Maxine will soon be the new member for Bennelong.

 

[Iron]

EDIT: And I'd challenge _dhj_ to match my offer if he's so certain that Maxine will soon be the new member for Bennelong.

Does that include the scenario of Howard leaving before or during the election?

 

[Iron]

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,,5660186,00.jpg

I used to think that Howard's hands were his major feature. He certainly thinks they are. You can see the proud way he uses them, to suggest immense strength and surgeon steadiness. Indeed, he's well regarded for his monkey-grip handshakes.
Now, especially since he scratched his head and motioned for GWB to return from walking off the stage at APEC, I see them more as rat claws.