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I am saying that most Australian-Lebanese I have argued this with go down that path and its embarrassing, there's quite a few on here like "zazzy". Your background is? I'd prefer to just say your Australian, but it wouldnt be realistic. Your Islam had to come from somewhere overseas...

I'm a seasoned debator on the topic and it is one of the most common (if not embarassing rebuttals I get all the time). Quite frankly I am sick of AUSTRALIANS (you either are or your not) with cultural ties to Lebanon and a "professed" kinship to Islam thinking they know what Islam is. Most...

Exactly. I'm arguing that if any (and its small) "moderate" movements exist, they are within secular nations influenced by secular values (the enlightenment). True Islam is still stuck in the 7th century when it was first revealed. In fact, Islam markets itself on this fact- that unlike...

And please don't bring up Lebanon with "Christians and Muslims" living side-by-side, its a poor excuse for an Islamic country. The nation can't decide what it is. Probably a major reason why your here right now, not there. Edit: Define a "normal" (non-extreme)[ muslim life which is fully...

Once the apologist, always the apologist. Obviously you can't be reasoned with. Try reading my full post and my other posts are always of the highest quality unlike your bias. Islam was born and bred over there- I'm not saying that certain aspects aren't politicised i.e. the Shiite v Sunni...

I'd argue that strict adherence to any religious doctrine is extreme. The nature of Islam is that it is very much an extreme view. It makes huge claims for itself and suppresses criticism, albeit kills its own people for apostasy if Islamic law is in place. Islam is plain and simple- it’s...

Science is independent of individual perception. That's why two external observers can verify a scientific claim. Try doing that with religion. Eg- In the late 19th, many people still believed in the all-encompassing "Luminiferous aether". The famous Michelson-Morley experiment...

Please provide a working framework of "Australian".

The middle east really offers all that to non-muslims, ey? And Christmas rocks. It is more lucrative the thought of getting gifts and stuffing yourself full of great food. What can muslim holidays offer the average, secular Australian?

Yea dude I'm an atheist, I fully accept evolution as the current best explanation we have for the origin of species... I underlined that because I was using the american conservatives lingo...in that they stupidly (as you point out) go on about evolution being a theory as though that somehow...

That's true. But is this warped view safe? I mean when its motivating hate against non-believers, wars, terroism, attrocities against science (*news today, only 39% of American's "BELIEVE" in the theory of evolution??) All hardline followers (and there is millions upon millions, not a...

The word god is meaningless anyway, it is just...a word. Consider this statement: -How did the universe come to be? "oh that's an easy one, god made it" Then ask yourself, how educational was that? Did you really learn something- or did it just evade the question, specifically "how"...

If you actually think about the religious paradigm, it is the willing hope to be a slave. As Hitchens says, a celestrial North Korea. Biological death is the only freedom- if a "spiritual world" exists, what escape there be?

How do you explain this to the atheist, secularly married couple who have had 25 long and happy years and are still going? For them, your statement=0 Your saying "nothing" has to be at the centre of it.

The day will come though, when we get our republic. The Queen will dissipate. I'll help draft our "declaration of independence" and the new constitution which clearly states something in the spirit of: "Parliment shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting...

Oh yes, and that is why I feel very sorry for the "minority" of Americans who beleive in the values of the enlightenment and the truth of their constitution. That's why I said its ironic, as America is more "secular" (legally) then say Australia, but not in practice. Australia, not being a...

lol fair question. Let's put it to Bainesy. I'm an Anglo-Saxon, "white", atheist Aussie "surfer" myself, But I fucking despise bogans- "Yea braaaaa!"

I said that all along. Just distribute X amount of "personal or spiritual" leave to every working Aussie. Use it on Xmas or a Hindu festival. No one cares.

The irony is, nations like America which are officially legislated as clearly very secular (being a republic), still hold this falsism much closer to their hearts then the average Aussie. You keep bringing up the "majority"- but really, do you not think those statistics are biased or...

Exactly. If you think the "offical state" position= the majority of people's persuasion, then your a retart. Of course, historically our founding fathers were Christians (atheism etc, not a good idea back then- at least not in public). We are still offically tied to the Queen- a...