Illegible writing (2 Viewers)

[Herm1]

Has anybody heard anything about losing marks because your writing is illegible or hard to read? I was marked down in one of my trial assessments for school because my handwriting was "supposedly" illegible, but I thought it wasn't too bad. Has anybody heard of any similar incidents that have happened in the actual HSC? If so, what happened?

 

[rogerlam]

not losing, but rather not gaining the marks you would of gained if it were legible

 

[D94]

not losing, but rather not gaining the marks you would of gained if it were legible

This.

Markers are told to give marks (ie. see the merit in the responses), not take away. If they can't read your writing, how can they give the mark?

 

[aphorae]

Has anybody heard anything about losing marks because your writing is illegible or hard to read? I was marked down in one of my trial assessments for school because my handwriting was "supposedly" illegible, but I thought it wasn't too bad. Has anybody heard of any similar incidents that have happened in the actual HSC? If so, what happened?

No, usually what happens is if they totally can't read it i.e. every 3rd word, it will get sent to a typist who will decipher it etc. and type it up and hand it to the marker (obviously spelling errors and whatnot are included.)

In some cases the senior marker + someone will sit down and decipher it together and award the mark, but not usually since it takes too long.

In other cases e.g. you can't read a word every half a page, they kind of just continue and get the idea of what it says, but the thing is that it (subconsciously) disrupts the 'flow' of writing, so even though it may not actually be awkward, it feels awkward and doesn't seem fluent. But they never purposely deduct marks for bad handwriting

 

[cem]

No, usually what happens is if they totally can't read it i.e. every 3rd word, it will get sent to a typist who will decipher it etc. and type it up and hand it to the marker (obviously spelling errors and whatnot are included.)

In some cases the senior marker + someone will sit down and decipher it together and award the mark, but not usually since it takes too long.

In other cases e.g. you can't read a word every half a page, they kind of just continue and get the idea of what it says, but the thing is that it (subconsciously) disrupts the 'flow' of writing, so even though it may not actually be awkward, it feels awkward and doesn't seem fluent. But they never purposely deduct marks for bad handwriting

As a marker for the last 20 years I have never come across an essay being typed because the writing is illegible.

I have sat down with my SM on a number of occasions and have attempted to decipher as much as we can and then awarded a mark. The SM has then repeated the process with the second marker who also awards a mark based on their reading of what they can.

The rule is simple - if we can't read it we can't mark it.

We do what we can to read it but there is no outside assistance given.

As for a typist - if a marker can't read it why would a typist be able to do so? Is that then fair to the students whose work is only somewhat illegible - no it isn't. As I said I have been marking for 20 years and have never heard of a typist for illegible work and I have come across some very bad ones - one I remember we gave 5/25 and 6/25 to despite the student writing over 8 pages - of which we could make out about 1 word every couple of lines and the occasional phrase that was relevant.

 

[jamesfirst]

What would be illegible ??


like a scribble-like writing ??? Because a lot of times my writing seems illegible to my eyes yet it is readable....

 

[harrisony]

Every essay type response I have done since year 7 has had teachers commenting on how hard my handwriting is to read. Feels good to know that they try and decipher it, kinda feels bad having put my teachers through all that pain

 

[aphorae]

As a marker for the last 20 years I have never come across an essay being typed because the writing is illegible.

I have sat down with my SM on a number of occasions and have attempted to decipher as much as we can and then awarded a mark. The SM has then repeated the process with the second marker who also awards a mark based on their reading of what they can.

The rule is simple - if we can't read it we can't mark it.

We do what we can to read it but there is no outside assistance given.

As for a typist - if a marker can't read it why would a typist be able to do so? Is that then fair to the students whose work is only somewhat illegible - no it isn't. As I said I have been marking for 20 years and have never heard of a typist for illegible work and I have come across some very bad ones - one I remember we gave 5/25 and 6/25 to despite the student writing over 8 pages - of which we could make out about 1 word every couple of lines and the occasional phrase that was relevant.

idk, this is what my tutor who marks said to me, maybe it was a certain centre then (?) another mod C senior marker/supervisor/whatever she was told me that usu they only remark if there's a discrepancy of 5 marks, but she always remarks if there's a difference of 4. She also makes them only come in when it's light because she doesn't want them tired, and lets them take breaks + gives them chocolate -> all of that is kind of unfair as well (esp the first part), but it happens

typist has a longer time to decipher it was my thought

 

[powlmao]

My writing is so bad

At least it is just readable

 

[BOSBOY]

She also makes them only come in when it's light because she doesn't want them tired, and lets them take breaks + gives them chocolate -> all of that is kind of unfair as well (esp the first part), but it happens

typist has a longer time to decipher it was my thought

All wrong. There are NO typists, all markers work the same hours, meal breaks are taken at the same times.

 

[anguscoble]

We were told by our school last year they implemented the idea that if handwriting was illegible then marks would be taken off but since it was the first year they would go easy on it. But they said for this year tell your students that we are going to take the handwriting into account, after all they can only give marks on what they can read

 

[aphorae]

All wrong. There are NO typists, all markers work the same hours, meal breaks are taken at the same times.

pm'd

 

[cem]

All wrong. There are NO typists, all markers work the same hours, meal breaks are taken at the same times.

Exactly - the hours are specified by the BOS - 4.00 - 6.30 then dinner and then 7.30 - 9.00 (the only change is that in order to help with the clearing of the car parks at the end of the evening sometimes some groups leave one night at 8.45 and the next at 9.15.

Everyone has dinner at the same time.

Saturdays can be slightly different but generally it is 8.30 - 12.30 and 1.30 - 4.30 with a morning and afternoon tea break of 10 minutes as well.

The lighting can be hard on the eyes in the facilities at the Showground at Homebush at times - as can the heat.

All SM do usually provide chocolate or other snacks - my group all bring in things as well to the group 'snacks' collection - lollies, chocolates etc.

 

[aphorae]

Exactly - the hours are specified by the BOS - 4.00 - 6.30 then dinner and then 7.30 - 9.00 (the only change is that in order to help with the clearing of the car parks at the end of the evening sometimes some groups leave one night at 8.45 and the next at 9.15.

Everyone has dinner at the same time.

Saturdays can be slightly different but generally it is 8.30 - 12.30 and 1.30 - 4.30 with a morning and afternoon tea break of 10 minutes as well.

The lighting can be hard on the eyes in the facilities at the Showground at Homebush at times - as can the heat.

All SM do usually provide chocolate or other snacks - my group all bring in things as well to the group 'snacks' collection - lollies, chocolates etc.

hmmm maybe i was misinformed or she was exaggerating. or maybe she was just talking about saturday. what is up with this though, neither of you referred to it:
another mod C senior marker/supervisor/whatever she was told me that usu they only remark if there's a discrepancy of 5 marks, but she always remarks if there's a difference of 4. ?

 

[BOSBOY]

Essays are re-marked if the difference between the two marks is more than 1/3 of the maximum mark. So if an essay is out of 15 then the two marks cannot be further apart than 5.

So 8 and 12 is OK, (8 + 12)/2 = 10 marks for the essay.

But if the first two marks are 6 and 12 then there is a 3rd mark (say 8). Then (6 + 8 + 12)/3 = 8.7 for the essay.

If a supervisor uses a difference smaller than 1/3 then they are not treating the students on that question the same as students on other questions and subjects. The HSC is supposed to be fair and consistent for all students.

 

[cem]

hmmm maybe i was misinformed or she was exaggerating. or maybe she was just talking about saturday. what is up with this though, neither of you referred to it:
another mod C senior marker/supervisor/whatever she was told me that usu they only remark if there's a discrepancy of 5 marks, but she always remarks if there's a difference of 4. ?

The BOS sets its discrepancy level for each subject - some years I have know it to be 5 and sometimes 4. It is not up to the the SM as the SM's are given the discrepant scripts by the clerical staff and they are told what the level has to be by the SOM who gets it directly from the BOS.

SM's will be check marking during the marking process and advising on scripts as well as fixing discrepancies so the level has to be high enough not to overload them and it is the BOS who decides what that level will be.

After the bundle of scripts are marked the clerical staff take them away, remove the first mark page and returns the bundle with only the second mark sheet to another marker. After the second marker has marked the bundle the two mark sheets are scanned and the computer highlights the ones that are discrepant and the clerical staff then take that bundle to the SM with the discrepant ones marked. I have heard of SM who then do a manual check and try to change marks that are 4 even though the stated figure is 5 but as that is unfair on others that are 4 apart my SOMs over the years have actively discouraged that action - the SM only gets to have both sheets if there is one or more scripts at or above the discrepant level so what happens if there is a bundle with 5 scripts at 4 but none at 5 - they don't get the third mark whereas a set of 4 in a bundle with a 5 would get one.

The Saturday breaks are also set - but at each subject level. You can't just have a group taking a break as it would disturb the other markers in that subject and even in the other subjects marking in the same shed e.g. usually Modern History, which I mark, will be in a shed with two or three other subjects so we all take our breaks at the same time to reduce disturbance to other markers.

 

[aphorae]

have actively discouraged that action
^ Wait, but it still happens? I don't know, but that seems kind of dodgy - well it's a nice thought, but as you/she suggested, not many other people do it. I looked her up and she still senior marks, and she told us about the 4 mark discrepancy re-mark a few weeks ago... :/ Meh, I'm assuming those discrepancies don't happen too often anyway.

 

[cem]

have actively discouraged that action
^ Wait, but it still happens? I don't know, but that seems kind of dodgy - well it's a nice thought, but as you/she suggested, not many other people do it. I looked her up and she still senior marks, and she told us about the 4 mark discrepancy re-mark a few weeks ago... :/ Meh, I'm assuming those discrepancies don't happen too often anyway.

deleted

 

[HelenaJean]

there's someone who will take an illegible paper and type it up word for word so that it can be marked (source: english teacher who does marking and year advisor).

They can only speny a teeny tiny amount of time on each paper; 10 mins on a paper beause it's messy might give it an unfair advantage over the previous paper that only got 3 minutes, or vice versa.

edit) i'm also just going off what i've heard. my bio teacher says it's handed around a couple times before given to the seniour marker and if they can't read it, too bad. I'm assuming it changes from subject to subject.

Whatever the case, i'd rather function under the thought that somehow it will be marked despite my messy handwriting

 

[Riproot]

tl;dr
I had to cross out a few words and rewrite them today because I couldn't read them. Lol