Chinese parenting compared to Western (3 Viewers)

[cosmo kramer]

The Asian education system and parents push their kids more in asian countries because there are so many of them they have to fight for everything. I guess the hardworking has been ingrained in them in at least the last 100 years so when parents come over here they do the same to their kids.

That would be the conventional explanation. I don't doubt that it is key to their relatively high achievement. I think there are perfectly good reasons to conclude that it is not the only factor, however.

Have there been any studies done on Asians (you're talking specifically about East Asians, Chinese, Koreans, Japanese etc. right?) that actually show the IQ differences? It's entirely believable. Culture can't play that much of a role in IQ, intelligence and academic achievement. I find it hard to believe that some white bogan with an IQ of 100 whose living on the dole could have become a brain surgeon if only he had grown up with Chinese parents..

Of course there has. There have been major standardizations of IQ tests in Japan and China, as well as Oriental diaspora populations living in Western countries. Some scholars have argued that they score the the same or slightly lower than Europeans, but I think more and more data have accumulated now to the point that we can conclude that there is an existent difference here that is stable. The mistake however is to infer that because there is an IQ difference (to the tune of around 3-5 points), that immediately indicates a genotypic difference. One requires additional information to make that inference.

I would like to see more information collected on the question of the European-Asian IQ gap, but I think that the available data point in the direction of a genotypically produced difference.

 

[Jaundice]

I think culture plays a massive part - well cultural values.

White culture tends to be more cushy and bludgy.

We have do-gooders making sure people don't smack their kids whereas in Asian cultures you can instill fear in your kids by starving them or beating them so they work to the best of their abilities.

We can be content on being a brick layer whereas an Chinese mother would rather die than see her child cast such shame on the family.

Anyway its a combo of things including cultural and social values, over population etc.

 

[cosmo kramer]

When the Oriental parental style is found in European households, it is correlated negatively with academic achievement. Likewise, Oriental children adopted (even when severely malnourished at birth) into European households still outscore the White IQ average. Compellingly, at least for me, the background variables (such as the home environment, peer group, etc) correlate exactly the same with intellectual developmental outcomes in Asians as they do in Whites. To put it non-technically, this means that whatever causes differences in group A is also causing the differences in group B. There is nothing specific to either of the aggreated social experiences of both groups to elevate one above the other with regards to intellectual ability..

 

[cantseecats]

Of course there has...

I realized that Asians worldwide have taken IQ tests, but not that there were any studies which showed a difference between White IQs and Asian IQs. I only did a quick Google search.

Anyway I think the reason not many geneticists write about this stuff even if they believe it themselves is because they realize that bad things would probably come from it. If people realized that the reason East Asians achieve so much is because of their genes then Whites might discriminate against them to even the playing field e.g. not let them into universities). East Asians at the top of the IQ scale might also start discriminating against other groups.

 

[Jaundice]

what an interesting read.

 

[cosmo kramer]

They already do, regardless of what their IQ scores are. Go to Japan or South Korea if you don't believe me.

Geneticists don't talk about this stuff much for the ideological concerns that you described, but also because it is really bad for their careers. Nobody wants to end up like James Watson did, and he co-discovered the structure of DNA. Think about the trouble some small time academic would get into if they broached this subject.

If people realized that the reason East Asians achieve so much is because of their genes then Whites might discriminate against and persecute them -

I don't see why a genotypic difference is a necessary condition for discrimination. It could be used as one sometimes, but we see plenty of discrimination all over the world and we ascribe all group differences to vague concepts such as "privilege" and "culture" Malays systematically discriminate against the Chinese all the time in Malaysia and I don't think they think the Chinese are genetically more intelligent than they are (though Lee Kwan Yew of Singapore thought Malays were thick for this reason). Whites are discriminated against in American universities all the time in favour of underachieving minority groups (and even overachieving minority groups such as Asians) and genetic explanations for group disparities are taboo in that country.

 

[Jaundice]

what do the neuro tests say?

 

[Jaundice]

and did they re test these kids one they were adults?

it would be interesting if neuro development was slower in certain races.

 

[cosmo kramer]

Neuro tests?

There is a brain size difference between Orientals and Whites. It is small but it is there. Brain size correlates about .44 (produces a within family correlation with IQ indicating that it is a functional relationship, that is, one is causing the other and is not merely a confound from latent variables) or so with IQ, but this increases with the technological sophistication of the measure employed. MRI studies and brain imaging is superior to crude skull tape-measure measures, for instance.

Chapter 9.

it would be interesting if neuro development was slower in certain races.

Neurological development is slowest for Asians. I don't have a direct source for this but the paper that I just cited would have it in there somewhere. Africans have the fastest mental and physical development.

and did they re test these kids one they were adults?

Probably both if they were standardizations. One has to norm the tests for different age cohorts to make them useful, after all. They would not be useful for Japanese and Chinese psychologists if they were normed entirely using children.

The Eskimo are also high scorers.

 

[Jaundice]

it would seem logical that there would be differences between races.

interesting with iq though - very interesting. Sounds like the asian races have more potential than the whites.

Gosh this is so interesting.

 

[Jaundice]

also i have to agree with it being a controversial topic.

So much reasearch on races/religion/addiction etc is undertaken. Then mysteriously the reasearch is halted, disappears or is very hard to track.

I remember a while back they were testing the brains of religious people and more heavily religious people compared to agnostic and atheists. Last I heard they found a link between a larger addiction area of brain with more heavily religious beliefs, smoking etc. So these people were apparently more susceptible to addiction.

But i know they were going to do more thorough research on it and then i never heard about it again.

 

[Drongoski]

If people realized that the reason East Asians achieve so much is because of their genes then Whites might discriminate against them to even the playing field e.g. not let them into universities). East Asians at the top of the IQ scale might also start discriminating against other groups.

Do you know why they introduced UMAT and interviewing (a highly subjective thing) as a requirement for the Medical course? In theory, cutoff ATAR for it can be 97+?? (but are no longer published)

 

[Drongoski]

Gosh this is so interesting.

and disturbing.

 

[cosmo kramer]

Do you know why they introduced UMAT and interviewing (a highly subjective thing) as a requirement for the Medical course? In theory, cutoff ATAR for it can be 97+?? (but are no longer published)

To get more low achieving groups like Australoids through the gate?

Does anybody know about positive discrimination for Abos and whatnot in Aussie universties? I've been on this investigative trail for some time.

 

[Jaundice]

I just realised my science books are from like the 80's or earlier. LOL

 

[cosmo kramer]

 

[Bendent]

What would you take:

-A life where you are always told what to do, with no free will,, and forced to get a good-paying job that you hate and forced to do it for the rest of your life. No parties, no true friends, no fun, no hanging out, no social skills. A life where you don't really have a life. (Asian way which you describe)

OR

-Heaps of sex. ( Your definition of Bogans)

none

best parenting is combining best aspects of both cultures (western and eastern).

Though if i had no choice i'd still go with the first choice due to my introverted personality by nature. irl my parents are like the in between perfect combination types.

 

[SylviaB]

[youtube]u-jg90JNksE[/youtube]

 

[xV1P3R]

Wouldn't testing whether a race is indeed more intelligent than another be almost impossible? Your results would be "tainted" if you like by differences in upbringing and the way a familiy's cultural values and ideals are imposed onto a child both consciously and subconsciously. Even if you did standardise the child's upbringing, wouldn't you still have errors resulting from the child's own talent? I mean, even in the article, you have two children brought up pretty much the same way, but one of them was more talented than the other in playing the piano piece.

I think (from my uneducated standing) that everyone is talented in their own area. Under chinese parenting, if a child does excel academically, his/her talent is nurtured whereas under the Western style of parenting, it may go unnoticed?

 

[mcmc55555]

Speaking from experience, Chinese parenting is sick in general and half those fuckers shouldn't be allowed to have kids in the 1st place because no one deserves to go through that kind of abuse. Child abuse is rampant in Chinese families and it needs to be stopped.