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Chinese parenting compared to Western (3 Viewers)

cosmo kramer

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Wouldn't testing whether a race is indeed more intelligent than another be almost impossible?
No. It is done all the time. What those intellectual differences mean, however, is another matter altogether.

Your results would be "tainted" if you like by differences in upbringing and the way a familiy's cultural values and ideals are imposed onto a child both consciously and subconsciously.
I think I get that you're asking "Wouldn't finding out whether one population is more intelligent than other due to genotypes be almost impossible?" There are several methods that provide differing degrees of inferential certanity to finding out whether variation between two populations is mediated by genotypes or enviromental variance. One, as you said, is to control for enviroments** to see whether a gap between populations still persists despite a matched equality on broad socioeconomic indicators percieved to be pertinent to the development of intelligence. For instance, when U.S census defined populations are matched for socioeconomic status and compared via the SAT test, an equality in test score is not reached in the slightest.




This is likewise true for proper IQ tests, such as the WAIS.



Of course, persistent inequality in spite of matching on socioeconomic indicators is hardly enough to establish dispositive proof of a genotypic difference. They certainly point, and strongly, in my opinion, in that direction, but theoretically the control of broad socioeconomic indicators can not control for all environmental influences that (putatively) influence IQ. Other lines of evidence can also point in the direction of a basic genetic disparity, and the data, compared vis-a-vis the data that supports the position that there is an intellectual equality between the races, can be evaluated to determine whether it more parsimoniously explains all of the available information and thus is most plausible and likely to be so over its alternative. Truly dispositive evidence employing means via what is available is currently possible, but would be incredibly unethical to attain. For example, one could conduct an experiment where one would take random samples of theWhite and Negro populations and then force them to have sexual intercourse, randomly. Then the children cross-fostered at random in Negro and White homes. You could then put the results into an analysis of variance, those data could then be analysed and then it would be possible to determine the extent to which the difference between the populations would be attributable to genotypic and environmental influences..

I mean, even in the article, you have two children brought up pretty much the same way, but one of them was more talented than the other in playing the piano piece.
Wouldn't this answer your question? If two children raised in separate homes and locales that have been specifically engineered in such a way to be identical down to the most minute detail environmentally were not intellectually equal, wouldn't it be plausible to suggest that the difference between the two is mediated by a genotypic difference?

Under chinese parenting, if a child does excel academically, his/her talent is nurtured whereas under the Western style of parenting, it may go unnoticed?
I don't think this is really plusible. It isn't as if Whites are NAMs in comparison to Orientals; Orientals don't do that much better than Whites. They are extremely overrepresented in Australian universities to be true, but this is partially due to the fact that they are imported on the basis of their skills. The Orientals in Australia are probably not representative of Orientals as a whole...





**controlling for environments is not necessarily the best idea, as to a considerable degree it is likely that environments are themselves the products of the genotypic predilections of parents. If an intellectual gap between two populations is diminished or eliminated via the control of socioeconomic status of the parents for instance, one cannot attribute this as unequivocal proof that the gap between the two populations was environmental in origin because when one controls for environments they are also controlling for genotypes. Adoption studies instead may prove more useful, as long as the correct methodologies are implemented.
 
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xV1P3R

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So are you saying that differences in the children's genes resulting in intellectual differences suggests that there possibly be a correlation between intelligence and genotypic differences between races. Makes sense, thanks!

I think I was getting at your point about adoption studies; how I attribute cultural differences in values and ideals rather than genotypic differences to a child's "success" if you like. I see your point from your graphs that there are definitely racial differences, I just feel an adoption study as you suggested would provide us with a more complete understanding.
 

cosmo kramer

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I just feel an adoption study as you suggested would provide us with a more complete understanding.
There have been many done. Going over all of them, Eyferth, Moore, and Tizard are supportive of the argument that there are no intellectual differences between the races (at least for Negroes and Whites), on the surface anyway. I have individual thoughts on each of these studies; they all have one major, gaping flaw that prevents the unequviocal conclusion that the differences in intellectual ability between Negroes and Whites is environmental in origin from being drawn, and, in the case of Eyferth, several major flaws that make it practically useless. There are about five studies that support the hereditarian hypothesis (differences are genetic); the best transracial adoption study ever done is included amongst these, the MTAS. It provides much stronger evidence than any of the adoption studies that support the environmental hypothesis because of its longitudinal construction.
 
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xV1P3R

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Interesting stuff. Might read into it when I have more time.
 

BlueTomato

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article: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...9713528698754.html?mod=WSJ_hp_us_mostpop_read

Does this article sound true for any of the asian students on this board?

I would say the article is pretty spot on for SOME parents , me being a malaysian chinese this is exactly the typical behavior of which certain families practice.The chinese people believe that the only way to succeed in live is to study hard, get smashing grades and top it up with a high paying career which in turn pressures the child to always wanting to be the best and to overcome hes fellow mates, For eg : even if my sister scored a couple of A's she wud be scolded for the remaining grades that do not exude such qualities.However this isnt the case for every other family , i believe that generally the chinese parents do conform to such ways however there are different levels of restrictions for each child, My sister was always allowed to go to sleepovers , parties as long as she came back n did her homework ;) , In the chinese family we have a more strict and disciplined routine,oh yea our parents do cane us and shit when we were younger but i was considered lucky cause my dad did not condone to the typical practices and really helped us to develop a more open mind about things (he converses with us in english,and we cud basically drink or party or whatever we wanted) so...yea
 

Jimmy Recard

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oh china is the only world where female suicide rate is higher than male suicide rate
 

Bread_2_Toast

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focus more on driving m8
i had an asian fella tailgate me for 20mins before rear ending my car at the lights
 

Bendent

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there are two types. there's a new generation (those rich parents who spoil their kids due to one children) that gets looked down upon/talked crap from their own kids, then there's the typical asian parents that are unreasonable and evil. the recent spoiled ones are now becoming more prevalent.
 

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