Can you be Christian, and support the existance of the state? (3 Viewers)

[copkiller]

As a Christian I find it disturbing that all the anarchists on this site seem to be fanatical, militant atheists. Tbh, I would actually be quite worried about an anarcho-capitalist society populated by these sorts of morally vacuous nihilists. (Of course a democracy with the same demographics would be worse because they would use it to initiate force).

The bible teaches us that violence and stealing is wrong. It does not mention any exceptions for large organisations that call themselves states. How can Christians possibly justify the existence of a state which demands involuntary payments and uses force against anyone who doesn't pay?

We already have the bible telling us to love thy neighbour, and to care for the poor and the sick and the weak. We don't need the state forcing us to do this. God gave us free will, and if we chose the path of greed and selfishness, that is between us and god.

 

[Cookie182]

Nihilistic, anarcho militant atheist-capitalist reporting in for duty!

 

[murphyad]

On the subject of taxes:

Tithe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Which, even in the time of the bible, became a form of tax.

 

[copkiller]

On the subject of taxes:

Tithe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Which, even in the time of the bible, became a form of tax.

Religion has always been abused by greedy people for their own ends.

The point is, the bible is very clear on the subject.

 

[murphyad]

Yes, and these 'greedy people' as a sum total represent organised religion.

You are right, the bible is very clear on this subject. Look up 1 Corinthians 16:1-2: "On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made."

Originally this was an obligation, but became a tax in short order.

All this from a single Google search.

 

[Iron]

\The bible teaches us that violence and stealing is wrong. It does not mention any exceptions for large organisations that call themselves states. How can Christians possibly justify the existence of a state which demands involuntary payments and uses force against anyone who doesn't pay?

.

Render unto Caesar /thread

But I think that you should at least distinguish the state from government. The concept of the state is rather new and captures both the government and governed. The Bible does not refer to this idea, but only refers to the specific authority of a ruling class.

The role of the government is to maintain by the sword an outward justice in which life is preserved and is thus held open for Christ. If it is unwilling to accept this mission, then the suffering of the Church simply renders service to the witness of the name of Christ. Therefore government is unavoidably related to Christ. It cannot in ether case evade its task of serving Him. It serves Him by its very existence.

Any government rules by divine right. Government is deputyship for God on earth.

 

[Silver Persian]

Um. Were you explicitly trying to parody the socialist take on the "capitalist" state, or was this just a happy coincidence?

 

[khorne]

As an atheist, I find it disturbing, that the document you base all your beliefs on sanctions the following:
-Selling your daughter as a sex slave (Exodus 21:1-11)
-Child Abuse (rofl @ priests) (Judges 11:29-40 or Isaiah 13:16)
-Killing babies (Hosea 13:16 and Psalms 137:9)
-rape: Numbers 31:7-18 NL
-God kills people in 1 Chronicles 21, Deuteronomy 3, Joshua 6, Judges 21, 2 Kings 10:18-27


And if you pull the..."Oh those are out-dated laws", I'm pretty sure that in Luke 16:17 NAB, god makes it clear that it is easier to destroy the heavens and earth, than to change these laws.

So yes...I think it's pretty easy to support existence of state (Refer: Crusades, dark ages, etc)

 

[Handmedown]

Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.

There you go...

 

[Silver Persian]

Were the authorities established in Nazi Germany established by God?

 

[Handmedown]

Were the authorities established in Nazi Germany established by God?

Hitler seemed to think so...

 

[khorne]

Were the authorities established in Nazi Germany established by God?

Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.

You're not questioning the word of the bible are you?

 

[Cookie182]

This thread demonstrates why Christians should leave the politics to the reasoned

 

[Iron]

Were the authorities established in Nazi Germany established by God?

The authority they exercised was from God, not their policies. They went further against natural law than perhaps any regime, but this offered a chance (which was not exploited as much as it could have been) to present the Christian message in its most real form - thru martyrdom: the Christian's highest calling

See Bonhoeffer

 

[Silver Persian]

So, we should respect authorities because they have been established by God; despite the fact that rulers can use their free will to abuse this authority?

 

[khorne]

So, we should respect authorities because they have been established by God; despite the fact that rulers can use their free will to abuse this authority?

Good job...Now you get Christianity.

First rule: Do not question
Second rule: Do NOT question

 

[Iron]

So, we should respect authorities because they have been established by God; despite the fact that rulers can use their free will to abuse this authority?

Yes, because it is in that abuse that the Christian message is most clear.

See: the crucifixion

We are strongest when we are weakest

 

[Silver Persian]

Glad to know Iron supports state sanctioned genocide to teach us heretics a lesson in redemptive Catholocism.

 

[Cookie182]

You'd then have to agree, its one of the most irrational systems of thought...period.

 

[Cookie182]

Glad to know Iron supports state sanctioned genocide to teach us heretics a lesson in redemptive Catholocism.

Hehe

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