Catholic Church and HIV/AIDS in Africa. (2 Viewers)

[ablle]

My suggestion that it be locked was ignored, then with Iron no longer a moderator...when the cats away...

Freedom prevails!

 

[Tully B.]

My suggestion that it be locked was ignored, then with Iron no longer a moderator...when the cats away...

Hmmm, and it only reached #2 after you suggest it be locked. Maybe if we all suggest it, it will jump to #1. HSC Timetables is up there at the moment. Come on people, this AIDS stuff is important!


... although we don't seem to be talking about it anymore.
What do you think, Lentern? Do you think that the Catholic Church can be given partial blame for the magnitude of the AIDS epidemic in Africa? I hear that your Catholic, so I'm hoping for quite an intriguing response, similar to that of the much-exonerated Iron.

 

[SylviaB]

Freedom prevails!

A winner is you.

 

[Lentern]

Hmmm, and it only reached #2 after you suggest it be locked. Maybe if we all suggest it, it will jump to #1. HSC Timetables is up there at the moment. Come on people, this AIDS stuff is important!


... although we don't seem to be talking about it anymore.
What do you think, Lentern? Do you think that the Catholic Church can be given partial blame for the magnitude of the AIDS epidemic in Africa? I hear that your Catholic, so I'm hoping for quite an intriguing response, similar to that of the much-exonerated Iron.

I through my two cents in ages ago and Iron told me to shutup.

I like to think myself a progressive catholic and I do actually think the Catholic Church has got it wrong re contraception. But I don't think we are accountable in that what we recomend does actually work when applied, people who abstain don't get aids. There is a fallacy emerging I fear that the church's view is "if you must have ex-marital sex, atleast don't do so with contraception." That has never been the church's view and I think arguing that it does weakens the arguement of intelligent critics like yourself who raise a serious issue. It to me is a bit like the people who say John Howard and Alexander Downer knew the SIEVX was out there sinking and decided that they shouldn't rescue the victims because of the potential political fallout. An impossible suggestion which has undermined the views of many intelligent people who dissagreed with Howard's refugee policy.

The other reason I find it absurd that the church be held accountable is that it does not police or enforce this view. It is a discouragement and it is not a discouragement of contraception it is of sexual immorality. The condemnation of contraception is a clarification that it is still against our doctrines to have ex-marital sex even if a little contraption will prevent a child or disease coming from it.

 

[Tully B.]

I through my two cents in ages ago and Iron told me to shutup.

I like to think myself a progressive catholic and I do actually think the Catholic Church has got it wrong re contraception. But I don't think we are accountable in that what we recomend does actually work when applied, people who abstain don't get aids. There is a fallacy emerging I fear that the church's view is "if you must have ex-marital sex, atleast don't do so with contraception." That has never been the church's view and I think arguing that it does weakens the arguement of intelligent critics like yourself who raise a serious issue. It to me is a bit like the people who say John Howard and Alexander Downer knew the SIEVX was out there sinking and decided that they shouldn't rescue the victims because of the potential political fallout. An impossible suggestion which has undermined the views of many intelligent people who dissagreed with Howard's refugee policy.

The other reason I find it absurd that the church be held accountable is that it does not police or enforce this view. It is a discouragement and it is not a discouragement of contraception it is of sexual immorality. The condemnation of contraception is a clarification that it is still against our doctrines to have ex-marital sex even if a little contraption will prevent a child or disease coming from it.

Best argument I've seen from your side of the aisle for a long time.
If I were a Catholic, and against contraception, this is probably the view I would hold.
However, I'm not Catholic, and do believe that the influence that they have over the African populous does equate to partial (if only minute) blame with regards to the size of the AIDs epidemic in Africa.

I also believe that the Church does enforce their view. I don't have a "citation" as of yet, but I am reasonably certain that they prevent the education of the African people about contraception. Assuming this is true, would you then equate this to partial guilt?

 

[iMiraj]

... I dont see why all these people take so much interest in other people's sex lives...

If the afros want to fuck till they drop with viruses dont stop them... Do you have ANY idea about the concept known as Darwin's Theory of Evolution?

The more they fuck the more likely one of them will develop a genetic defect that will cure AIDS...

Burn the condoms.

 

[SylviaB]

• The US was the largest and most succesful donator of contraception to Africa.
• Spread of HIV was decreasing and program is declared successful.
  
• Catholics pressure US government into stopping, or at least greatly reducing, this donating of contraception.
• Instead, the US now has absintance education programs.
• These programs are essentially useless, and are much more expensive than contraception
  
• donation.

Before the catholic church interfered, the AIDS problem was being fixed, but because of their actions, now it's not. Simple as that.

catholics are more concerned with what they view as "moral" rather than fixing the problem.

That's all there is to it.

Also: protip, there are way too fucking many people in Africa as it is, and so contraception helps married couples control how many childrren they have.

Oh but who cares because they're sinning right.

 

[ablle]

Source? Or is it your general knowledge.

 

[moll.]

... I dont see why all these people take so much interest in other people's sex lives...

If the afros want to fuck till they drop with viruses dont stop them... Do you have ANY idea about the concept known as Darwin's Theory of Evolution?

The more they fuck the more likely one of them will develop a genetic defect that will cure AIDS...

Burn the condoms.

You sound like a National Socialist.

 

[Kwayera]

... I dont see why all these people take so much interest in other people's sex lives...

If the afros want to fuck till they drop with viruses dont stop them... Do you have ANY idea about the concept known as Darwin's Theory of Evolution?

Hahaha clearly you don't.

The more they fuck the more likely one of them will develop a genetic defect that will cure AIDS...

Hahaha once again, you have no idea what you're talking about. Unless you're referring to the CCR5-Δ32 mutation!

 

[iMiraj]

Xd yeah I dont know what im talking about but i know that sooner or later in a few million years they will adapt to it XD

 

[Tully B.]

... I dont see why all these people take so much interest in other people's sex lives...

If the afros want to fuck till they drop with viruses dont stop them... Do you have ANY idea about the concept known as Darwin's Theory of Evolution?

The more they fuck the more likely one of them will develop a genetic defect that will cure AIDS...

Burn the condoms.

That is absolutely, without a doubt, the stupidest thing I have heard in the last 2, maybe even 3 hours. If you truly believe any of the things you have said, than I pity your stupidity and despise your utter immorality.

Shooting yourself would not be an example of Darwin's Theory of Evolution, but it would nonetheless improve the quality of this oh-so-sullied world.

 

[Lentern]

Best argument I've seen from your side of the aisle for a long time.
If I were a Catholic, and against contraception, this is probably the view I would hold.
However, I'm not Catholic, and do believe that the influence that they have over the African populous does equate to partial (if only minute) blame with regards to the size of the AIDs epidemic in Africa.

I also believe that the Church does enforce their view. I don't have a "citation" as of yet, but I am reasonably certain that they prevent the education of the African people about contraception. Assuming this is true, would you then equate this to partial guilt?

In regads to wielding influence over Africans anyone whose sexual lives the church has influenced would not have aids. That is the fallacy I spoke of before; we don't say "if you must have ex marital sex atleast don't use a condom." The church discourages ex marital sex in its entirety and has done little more than stress that the inability to create life through this sex beyond the institution of marriage does not excuse it.


As for our role in preventing education i'm not entirely sure what you are suggesting. We may not teach it ourselves, that is hardly unreasonable. If we encourage or lobby governments to dedicate their finite resources to matters elsewhere I don't think that is unreasonable. I think when I say enforce I mean beyond the democratic capacity any institution has within a sovereignty. We don't attempt to in anyway punish someone for ignoring us, the worst we really do is demand they apologise to god or leave the club.

I understand and fully appreciate there are unfortunately some groups who will be quite harsh on someone who has been excomunicated but we don't sanction that. Rome has never sanctioned people taking matters into their own hands in such a way and has made several statements against it.
We can not be held accountable for people doing evil and claiming to do so in our name when we have expressly disowned it.


But in my opinion the core reason why I don't think we are to be held accountable is that anyone who heeds our advice will be at a low risk of aids. Anyone who decides to have ex marital sex can hardly blame church influences for their contracting the disease, they chose to conduct themselves outside of our recomendations. The church does alot of stuff I dissagree with, so much so some weeks I decide not to go to mass because of my dissapointment with the institution; this however is not one of those things.

 

[NEO NAZI]

If the catholic church didnt touch kids in africa then maybe there wouldnt be aids.

BUT if africans didnt touch the lions, elephonts and monekys then there definatley wouldnt be aids.

BUT BUT BUT!!!!

If this thread didnt exist, aids wouldnt either.

 

[I Study Hard]

Useless comment, but I'll point out all it's flaws anyways. Countries in Africa that are muslim dominated actually have the lowest percenatge of HIV/AIDS.



Well said, If less people blamed the church and started recognising the individuals responsibilty far more progress would be made in the HIV/AIDS situation

Wouldn't that be because they stone people who commit adultery?? I know, another useless comment. Just thought i'd put it out there.

 

[nhg]

Can i just ask the nazi guy why he bothers?

 

[SylviaB]

Well said, If less people blamed the church and started recognising the individuals responsibilty far more progress would be made in the HIV/AIDS situation

But condoms WERE WORKING!


You're just pushing your religious views on people whose lives are already bad enough.

Anyone who would consider themselves remotely moral would put the welfare of these people above pointing the finger at them.

There is a problem. We had a solution. You took the solution away and are now blaming them, when the problem could have been fixed with a few condoms.

 

[Laika_]

because he isnt actually serious

 

[doggieslover]

Some interesting facts:
President Museveni of Uganda
"We are being told that only a thin piece of rubber stands between us and the death of our Continent ... they (condoms) cannot become the main means of stemming the tide of AIDS."

Please see
Ugandan Abstinence AIDS Prevention Program Equivalent to a Highly Effective Vaccine, Researchers Find

"Uganda has recorded declining rates of HIV infection since 1993. Although HIV prevalence among pregnant women rose from 24 per cent in 1989 to 30 per cent in 1992, by 1999 it had dropped to 10 per cent, according to the latest figures from the AIDS Control Programme (ACP) in the Ministry of Health. Among patients suffering from sexually transmitted diseases at Uganda's leading hospital, Mulago, HIV infection rates fell from 44.2 per cent in 1989 to 23 per cent in 1999."

I have to tell you that it looks as though abstinence works, and to tell you the truth it makes sence. Condoms break, we all know it, where as if a person doesn't have sex, or has it with only one partner, then it cannot spread very far.

I think the media has been unfair to the Catholic Church in this area.

 

[Lentern]

But condoms WERE WORKING!


You're just pushing your religious views on people whose lives are already bad enough.

Anyone who would consider themselves remotely moral would put the welfare of these people above pointing the finger at them.

There is a problem. We had a solution. You took the solution away and are now blaming them, when the problem could have been fixed with a few condoms.

The church is not intervening to stop people getting condoms if they want them, they are saying the American government shouldn't have to provide them. If you think you are moe moral than the church go spend your $900 for african condoms.