X
xeuyrawp
Guest
It's not very hard - 3 years of $3000 (a lot less than my current, mind you...). By the end of three years, you've payed $7200 incl. discount (excluding all those nasty fees, as well). At *cough* 1% interest compounded twice annually, with me putting $1500 in every sem, I've earnt $12,249.95 with that same money. To pay for the $9000 worth of fees, I then have $3249.95 spare when I pull my investment in July when I graduate.Cyan_phoeniX said:
Definitely correct me if I'm wrong. Personally, I couldn't care less, I don't have any investments in things like shares/stocks/bonds. Really, you need to be clever with your money and stick it in the nearest hole.
Edit: Oh wait, I fucked it up. I put in $9000 ($1500 a sem), when I forgot we were comparing your $7200 ($864 a sem). Too lazy to find the calculator again. The final amount should be closer to $10,000-9,500 or something. The point is, it's significantly larger than the $7200/$9000 needed to pay upfront/eventually.
Double edit: I'm still assuming that you will pay it off immediately, which you don't have to. Consider paying half of it off normally as tax (say takes 5 years), then consider paying the other half of it off using an investment with even the smallest interest compounded over that period + what you put into that fund during uni...
Last edited by a moderator:
Cyan_phoeniX
Active Member
Yeah, it really isnt that hard, is it? 
I'll calculate mine and see what i come up with.
I'll calculate mine and see what i come up with.
ok i have a few points i need to clear up
1. i'm talking about pre 2005 entrants cause from wat i understand post 2005 u have CPI index + 3% interest which makes it like 6-7% a year so i wouldnt suggest deferring
2. my annual hex is more like 6.5k so i donno wat course u guys do and how the figures change
3. 6% retern isnt hard IGN accounts give that (maybe 5.75 close enough) if u were investing i'll be looking at more 9-10% returns. IGN accounts are not fixed locked in u can remove money weneva u want. i know ANZ has a acocunt if u keep a minimum 2k the rest is freely movable and they give 5. something % return so theres plenty of accounts out there that dont require lock in terms.
heres my mafs:
i'll do this for my course which is 4 year course
* focal date: graduation
UP FRONT:
* working with 20% discount if u pay upfront
* 6k fees a year (just cause its easier to work with its actually 6.5k)
* lets say inflation is 4%
$2,400 per semester
using some acst101 maf
2,400 * S (4%,8 periods) * 1.02
= 20992.52
DEFERED:
* $3,000 per semester
* 6% return + 1% as explained previously = 7%
* inflation 4%
3,000 * S (4%,8periods)*1.02 - 210 * S (7%, 8 periods)*1.4
= 26240.64 - 1962.12
= 24278.52
Yes ur better off paying now. HOW DID I COME TO LAST CONCLUSION?
1. first i was talking about just the first year. i made the comment at the bottom that it may be worth wild to pay the last it off
2. we assume we pay it back immediately upon graduation which is unrealistic its ova time. if someone tells me wat the formula of how much u need to pay bak based on income i can work it out for u but assure u it'll drag on ova for like 5-10 yrs by which the discount factor would kcik in even for the last year and since ur onli up by 3k after 4 yrs of uni i'd say that'll get eaten up soon
3. i aslso mentioned that ur company may pay for u meaning u would be just up $1896 anyways
4. someone might say hang on theres a discount factor on if u work and pay bak slowly, but theres also money on the part wen u work and dont have to pay. this can be easily explained away. the extra income u get by paying upfront is equivalent to the bit u would otherwise need to pay bak, but the part NOT paid bak is much larger therefore would get discounted heavier. the onli time wen the amount owing is less then the amount ur going to pay is on the last payment. that will be a miniscure advantage.
**** Now lets consider human factors.
1. opportunity cost of not having that money resulting in inability to pamper gfs leading to being single leading to any other kinds of hell. this point alone suggest derferment =D
2. if u had chosen a course that cost less then mine (as some of the above had suggested, the ammount u would be up by the end of 3 yrs would be even less. Also if ur doing part time then the period is longer therefore discount effect is much greater.
3. anyone been to sam recently. a bottle of coke has risen in price from $2.50 to $3 giving u a 20% inflation figure 0.o it hurts it may seem small but just the change in SAM prices this year will hurt our calculations a lot
EDIT:
4. I cant do maf lol i fixed up the figures in case anyone saw the old ones i didnt use payment at start of period formula i used payment at the end of period accidentally
1. i'm talking about pre 2005 entrants cause from wat i understand post 2005 u have CPI index + 3% interest which makes it like 6-7% a year so i wouldnt suggest deferring
2. my annual hex is more like 6.5k so i donno wat course u guys do and how the figures change
3. 6% retern isnt hard IGN accounts give that (maybe 5.75 close enough) if u were investing i'll be looking at more 9-10% returns. IGN accounts are not fixed locked in u can remove money weneva u want. i know ANZ has a acocunt if u keep a minimum 2k the rest is freely movable and they give 5. something % return so theres plenty of accounts out there that dont require lock in terms.
heres my mafs:
i'll do this for my course which is 4 year course
* focal date: graduation
UP FRONT:
* working with 20% discount if u pay upfront
* 6k fees a year (just cause its easier to work with its actually 6.5k)
* lets say inflation is 4%
$2,400 per semester
using some acst101 maf
2,400 * S (4%,8 periods) * 1.02
= 20992.52
DEFERED:
* $3,000 per semester
* 6% return + 1% as explained previously = 7%
* inflation 4%
3,000 * S (4%,8periods)*1.02 - 210 * S (7%, 8 periods)*1.4
= 26240.64 - 1962.12
= 24278.52
Yes ur better off paying now. HOW DID I COME TO LAST CONCLUSION?
1. first i was talking about just the first year. i made the comment at the bottom that it may be worth wild to pay the last it off
2. we assume we pay it back immediately upon graduation which is unrealistic its ova time. if someone tells me wat the formula of how much u need to pay bak based on income i can work it out for u but assure u it'll drag on ova for like 5-10 yrs by which the discount factor would kcik in even for the last year and since ur onli up by 3k after 4 yrs of uni i'd say that'll get eaten up soon
3. i aslso mentioned that ur company may pay for u meaning u would be just up $1896 anyways
4. someone might say hang on theres a discount factor on if u work and pay bak slowly, but theres also money on the part wen u work and dont have to pay. this can be easily explained away. the extra income u get by paying upfront is equivalent to the bit u would otherwise need to pay bak, but the part NOT paid bak is much larger therefore would get discounted heavier. the onli time wen the amount owing is less then the amount ur going to pay is on the last payment. that will be a miniscure advantage.
**** Now lets consider human factors.
1. opportunity cost of not having that money resulting in inability to pamper gfs leading to being single leading to any other kinds of hell. this point alone suggest derferment =D
2. if u had chosen a course that cost less then mine (as some of the above had suggested, the ammount u would be up by the end of 3 yrs would be even less. Also if ur doing part time then the period is longer therefore discount effect is much greater.
3. anyone been to sam recently. a bottle of coke has risen in price from $2.50 to $3 giving u a 20% inflation figure 0.o it hurts it may seem small but just the change in SAM prices this year will hurt our calculations a lot
EDIT:
4. I cant do maf lol i fixed up the figures in case anyone saw the old ones i didnt use payment at start of period formula i used payment at the end of period accidentally
Last edited:
X
xeuyrawp
Guest
Mine's 2.4%.dracover said:
a) It's HECS-HELP, not hex,
b) most importantly, considering you base your whole argument on it, my HELP fees are $2100 per semester. $1500-1800 a semester is what you can expect for a National Priority to Band 1 Student at Macquarie in first year.
I've looked high and low for how much one gets taxed. I still can't find it. I do believe that it's around 5%.
On the point of paying it back immediately:
me said:
?
Definitely. =P
Definitely, but assuming you did your course part time, you'd have other resources which were valuable to you, eg working (money), spending time with family, watching TV, etc. Therefore the discount is essentially the same at any given point in time, because the discount only relates to how much you pay back, which in turn relates to how many units you take. You can't get a discount on 5 units when you're only doing 2 units part time. If you were doing 2 units part time, you could also be earning money. So really, I don't see what this has to do with anything.
I really hope you're joking.
Anyway, noone's yet addressed my point that the rate of taxation is so low, and, despite one odd example to which noone else's seemed to back up, financial institutions do not see it as a problem. Obviously they don't see it as a problem because such a low taxation is not a large burdon on many people.
Edit: found it. Lol, it's 38k threshold now. I'm sure most people could handle making voluntary payments (which actually reduce your compulsary payment %) before they earn over 38.
Last edited by a moderator:
1. my point about part time is that it means u study longer so a 3 yr course is 6 yrs meansing the compund effect is much greater so the investment 7% will make it more worth wild to defer
2. and yes besides the inability to do mafs i cant spell etierh ... yeah HECS
3. about fees. i'm a HECS student so should be cheaper i rem my first year was like almost 7k so i donno maybe my courses are more expensive?? wats the band 1 thing? is there different costs for different levels or something?
4. about the tax issue i'm pretty sure its tax deductable for 1 and that its onli on the part ova watevak i fink so u realli onli paying bak a very small sum
5. about banks and if they care as far as i understand it they just work it out as if u had a deduction on ur income. so just like if u had a membership to some prestigous sports club thats gonna cost u 1k a year. so it does affect home loans if ur after one. but i dont think it'll be as bad as say u already have oustanding personal loans and such
2. and yes besides the inability to do mafs i cant spell etierh ... yeah HECS
3. about fees. i'm a HECS student so should be cheaper i rem my first year was like almost 7k so i donno maybe my courses are more expensive?? wats the band 1 thing? is there different costs for different levels or something?
4. about the tax issue i'm pretty sure its tax deductable for 1 and that its onli on the part ova watevak i fink so u realli onli paying bak a very small sum
5. about banks and if they care as far as i understand it they just work it out as if u had a deduction on ur income. so just like if u had a membership to some prestigous sports club thats gonna cost u 1k a year. so it does affect home loans if ur after one. but i dont think it'll be as bad as say u already have oustanding personal loans and such
Last edited:
X
xeuyrawp
Guest
Oh, I see. That makes sense. My apologies.dracover said:
National Priority: Education (+some humanities/soc sci to go with), nursing,
Band 1: Humanities and social sciences, etc,
Band 2: Commerce, science, etc,
Band 3: Medicine, law.
Commerce-related units are in band 2, so a bit more expensive than band one. No idea how much, though. I remember doing a history subject which was tacked onto National Priority because educ. students had to do it, and that was significantly cheaper than my band 1 subjects. Then again, my LAW1xx subject costs the same as my current AHST3xx subjects. I never realised there's such an increase in unit cost as you go up in level.
Thanks for the clarification. Obviously everything affects a loan application, but I seriously doubt it alone merits paying back your HECS-HELP fees. The main thing is that the bank doesn't consider it a debt for the total amount, but rather an ongoing tax.
X
xeuyrawp
Guest
Unless by house you mean car, cardboard box, cupboard, large paper bag, small paper bag, prison, or telephone booth, I suppose you're right. =/AsyLum said:
GoodToGo
Active Member
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2004
- Messages
- 1,144
- Gender
- Undisclosed
- HSC
- N/A
I've never actually heard of HECS being paid by the employer outside of teaching, but that'd be awesome.dracover said:omg u mean there are other kinds of houses besides those?:rofl:
but personally i'm hoping for a graduate position that pays for HECS many banks and financial institutions do that so fingers crossed
X
xeuyrawp
Guest
My brother's company is currently paying for his Masters in IT. Otherwise the fees would be huge, especially since he'd just finished paying off his undergrad stuff.GoodToGo said:
I think it's not uncommon... I read a thing about it in one of the law journals (possibly a uni one?), it said that a lot of professionalised areas are increasingly paying for employees to get postgrad qualifications.
Cyan_phoeniX
Active Member
Was there something wrong with the maths in my last post? I've tried to follow your arguments as to why deferring is better, but really can't understand it. :/ Mainly, whats this CPI index about exactly and why is it so important? Preferably use an example.