• Best of luck to the class of 2024 for their HSC exams. You got this!
    Let us know your thoughts on the HSC exams here
  • YOU can help the next generation of students in the community!
    Share your trial papers and notes on our Notes & Resources page
MedVision ad

WTF?? standard scales better then advanced english? (1 Viewer)

live.fast

Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Messages
501
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
N/A
Hey
I was checking SAM out, comparing marks between advanced and standard, and when I put in 90 / 100 for each, standard english scaled higher up, to like 94 - 95.2, better than advanced english!!!

im just wondering, is that correct???

does a band 6 in standard scale better than a band 6 in advanced???

wtf is up wif daaatttttt!!!!!
 

imprsiv

Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2005
Messages
44
Gender
Male
HSC
2007
live.fast said:
Hey
I was checking SAM out, comparing marks between advanced and standard, and when I put in 90 / 100 for each, standard english scaled higher up, to like 94 - 95.2, better than advanced english!!!

im just wondering, is that correct???

does a band 6 in standard scale better than a band 6 in advanced???

wtf is up wif daaatttttt!!!!!

Umm i think it is a hsc mark of 90. Which means after scaling you still scored a band 6 in Enligh standard. Which i heard only 10 people in the state end up getting, while 15% of the state get band 6 for english advanced after scaling for their hsc mark. ?????????????????????????
 

Rekkusu

Currently: Away
Joined
Mar 6, 2005
Messages
1,113
Location
UNSW
Gender
Male
HSC
2005
You have to understand that SAM is nothing more but a programmed software by BoS (Not Board of Studies :) ) personnel to estimate your UAI.

Scaling differs from year to year, dependant upon the projected number of students taking the course, and the Range of marks attained from students, almost like determining the UAI marks required for you to get into the degree you want in the Main Round.

Also, don't make the mistake of choosing a course based simply on it's scaling. ;)
 

uhawww

Flakes
Joined
Sep 2, 2006
Messages
1,380
Location
Sydney
Gender
Male
HSC
2006
Getting a band 6 in Standard English is like getting close to 100 in Advanced English. VERY VERY few people manage to get a band 6 in standard.
 

Rekkusu

Currently: Away
Joined
Mar 6, 2005
Messages
1,113
Location
UNSW
Gender
Male
HSC
2005
Yup, it's equally as hard to get Band 6 in Advanced English (i.e. Close to 95), it's easy somewhat to hit the band5 to low band6 though in Adv English.
 

ianc

physics is phun!
Joined
Nov 7, 2005
Messages
618
Location
on the train commuting to/from UNSW...
Gender
Male
HSC
2006
The reason why so few people get band 6 in standard is that the Board of Studies adjusts all the marks for the Standard modules paper down, based on the relative performances of the standard and advanced candidatures in Paper One. So this means if you're getting 20/20 for the modules sections, this would equate to about 17/20 (i think!) So if this is done for 3 sections, about 9 marks have been deducted just because you're doing standard.

The reason why they do this is to stop the really smart people doing the less challenging standard course and hence getting "easy marks". It doesn't really affect the average standard student. While this is a good idea, I think it is a little unfair for standard students who have worked extremely hard throughout the year and improved dramatically, only to be pushed down because of the level they chose.

So essentially it's the fiddling that the Board of Studies does rather than UAC's scaling that affects the marks of people doing standard.

If youre capable of getting a good band 5 in standard you really should be doing advanced to maximise your marks.
 
Last edited:

Forbidden.

Banned
Joined
Feb 28, 2006
Messages
4,436
Location
Deep trenches of burning HELL
Gender
Male
HSC
2007
There is no difference in scaling between Standard and Advanced English.

Advanced English just allows you to study the English Extension 1 & 2 courses so if you aren't interested in English you are better off in English Standard.
 

Rekkusu

Currently: Away
Joined
Mar 6, 2005
Messages
1,113
Location
UNSW
Gender
Male
HSC
2005
There is one major difference though in the HSC Syllabus

Paper 1
This is common to both Standard & Adv Students

Paper 2
Standard students do their Modules Paper, and Advanced students do a different Modules Paper.

Even the texts studied are completely different :)
 

live.fast

Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Messages
501
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
N/A
IM STILL CONFUZZZLEDDD!!!!!!!1
....
from waaatt i heard, itz sumfink like dizzz??
standard = shittier aligning of marks i.e need higher raw mark
than advanced
this means less standard students = band 6
so those who get band 6 = madder scaling den advanced
i.e 90 in standard iz wayy better by UAC standards den 90 in advanced.

am i riteee???? or otherwise Wtf???
 
Last edited:

A l

Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2004
Messages
625
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
N/A
Most of you are misinformed. English (Standard) and English (Advanced) scale equally. A detailed explanation of the result in SAM that makes it appear not to be the case is below:

RAW MARKS, ALIGNED MARKS AND SCALED MARKS
First of all we must distinguish between raw marks, aligned marks and scaled marks:

RAW MARKS - The marks that result directly after marking. It is the original mark totalled from marking your paper. It depends on the difficulty of the paper. If the paper was hard, then the raw marks would be low and if the paper was easy, then the raw marks would be high.

ALIGNED MARKS - The marks that you receive in your HSC and the marks you enter into SAM. They are based on certain standards required for certain bands. They are not dependent on the difficulty of the paper. Threfore no one is disadvantaged from having an easier exam or harder exam than previous years. For example, a mark of 90 in English (Standard) in 2001 is the same "level" as a mark of 90 in English (Standard) in 2006. It doesn't matter whether the 2001 exam was harder than 2006 or vice versa, the resultant mark should be roughly the same.

SCALED MARKS - These are the marks that have undergone "scaling". They are used for the calculation of the UAI. Scaled marks are dependent on the strength of one candidature relative to the entire state.

What is the relationship between these 3 types of marks? Here's a flowchart to show (can't find the BOS one):
HSC EXAM ---> Marking ---> RAW MARK
RAW MARK ---> Standardising/Aligning ---> ALIGNED MARK (HSC MARK)
RAW MARK ---> Scaling ---> SCALED MARK ---> UAI

***NOTICE how there is no direct relationship between ALIGNED MARK and SCALED MARK. I'll explain the significance of this later.


English Paper 1 - Area of Study
English (Advanced) and English (Standard) students take a common examination. This allows English (Advanced) and English (Standard) students to be ranked against each other appropriately. GENERALLY SPEAKING, English (Advanced) contains more talented students at English than English (Standard). Therefore it is these talented students that have access to higher marks in Paper 1. This is why there are more band 6 results in English (Advanced) than English (Standard). The fact that English (Advanced) students tend to score higher than English (Standard) students in Paper 1 means that the English (Advanced) students have access to the higher marks.

HOWEVER, let's take this hypothetical or imaginary situation. What if English (Standard) students performed BETTER than the English (Advanced) students in Paper 1? That would mean that English (Standard) students have access to higher marks because they came out on top in Paper 1. Consequently more band 6 results would arise in English (Standard) than English (Advanced).
If one English (Standard) student excelled beyond the entire English (Advanced) cohort in Paper 1, then it is likely that he or she would obtain 99-100 in English (Standard) or very close to it.

Notice how this is all dependent on the performance of the candidature in Paper 1. The difference in distribution of marks between English (Advanced) and English (Standard) overall is established by the difference in distribution of marks between English (Advanced) and English (Standard) in Paper 1. Since English (Standard) students generally don't perform as well as English (Advanced) students in Paper 1, this is why there are few band 6 results in English (Standard). Of course, there are some talented English (Standard) students who hammer most of the English (Advanced) students in Paper 1 and it is these students who score up to band 6.


English Paper 2 - Modules
Paper 2 is different to both English (Advanced) and English (Standard) candidatures. Now since this time they vary in content and difficulty, the common scale is no longer applicable for Paper 2. HOWEVER, the Board of Studies adjusts the distribution of marks in Paper 2 to MATCH the distibution of marks in Paper 1. So say for example, the highest mark in Paper 1 in the whole state was 90% and the lowest was 10%, then the highest mark in Paper 2 would be 90% and the lowest in Paper 2 would be 10%. It doesn't matter whether that Paper 2 happened to be English (Advanced) or English (Standard).

Notice how this is again dependent on Paper 1, the paper which allows for a common scale. Thus, neither English (Advanced) students nor English (Standard) students are advantaged or disadvantaged in this process. The marks we are talking about here are RAW MARKS.


Resultant Raw Marks
After adjusting Paper 2 in accordance to Paper 1, the result is that the RAW MARKS of English (Advanced) and English (Standard) students are similar if they performed similarly well in Paper 1. For example, a raw mark of 80 from an English Advanced) student is equivalent to a raw mark of 80 from an English (Standard) student. Assuming they maintained their ranks and achieved equal marks in Paper 2 after adjustment, the same raw mark indicates that they performed equally well in Paper 1.


Aligning and Scaling
Keep in mind that ALIGNED MARKS and SCALED MARKS are completely different marks.

English (Advanced) are English (Standard) are SCALED THE SAME.
However, English (Advanced) and English (Standard) are ALIGNED DIFFERENTLY.
Equal RAW MARKS are scaled to become equal SCALED MARKS within both English (Standard) and English (Advanced).

Equal RAW MARKS are aligned to become different ALIGNED MARKS between English (Standard) and English (Advanced).


The common misconception
What most of you incorrectly perceive is that there is a direct relationship between ALIGNED MARKS and SCALED MARKS***. Remember that the marks you enter into SAM are ALIGNED MARKS (the marks on your HSC results). Now keep in mind that English (Advanced) and English (Standard) align differently. Since they are not aligned equally, then the RAW MARKS that correspond to the same ALIGNED MARK would be different. For example an ALIGNED MARK of 85 in English (Advanced) would correspond to a LOWER RAW MARK than an ALIGNED MARK of 85 in English (Standard). Since the RAW MARK is higher in English (Standard) for the same ALIGNED MARK in English (Advanced), then the resultant SCALED MARK would be different between both of them, because they are different RAW MARKS (Remember that they scale equally).

Imagine this hypothetical situation:

Say an ALIGNED MARK of 85 corresponded to a total RAW MARK of 75 in English (Standard). Pretend that the SCALED MARK from 75 becomes 80 (it's not what actually happens, just pretend it's all +5 for the sake of making it easier to understand). Now say, an ALIGNED MARK of 85 corresponded to a total RAW MARK of 72 in English (Advanced). The SCALED MARK from 72 would become 77 (using the pretended +5). Now if you entered 85 in both English (Advanced) and English (Standard) in SAM, then the 85 for English (Standard) would have the greater SCALED MARK (as shown above).

Remember that I mentioned above that the same RAW MARK for English (Standard) and English (Advanced) are equivalent to each other.

Now if an ALIGNED MARK of 85 corresponded to a total RAW MARK of 75 in English (Standard), then what mark would correspond to a RAW MARK of 75 in English (Advanced)? Pretend this is 87. By scaling, both would become 80 (remember RAW MARKS are scaled to become SCALED MARKS). Therefore if you enter that in SAM, the scaled marks are EQUAL, because the RAW MARKS were scaled the SAME.

This is what gives the appearance that English (Advanced) students are disadvntaged. However, if you had access to the RAW MARKS (which they use for scaling), you would realise that is not the case.

***Remember that ALIGNED MARKS and SCALED MARKS have no direct relationship and you can't compare between them. They are different types of adustments to the same RAW MARK.


Hope that clarifies everything....:)
 

sando

HSC IS EVIL
Joined
Oct 31, 2005
Messages
1,123
Gender
Male
HSC
2006
so many people hav this misconception
 

live.fast

Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Messages
501
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
N/A
LOLLLz im still lost!!

just one question -

...as long as u get like say top 10 in state in english standard, you´ll get scaled mad...yea???? it wont bugger you up??
 

sando

HSC IS EVIL
Joined
Oct 31, 2005
Messages
1,123
Gender
Male
HSC
2006
of course getting top 10 in any course will not "bugger u up"
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

Top