Witnessed cheating. What do I do? (3 Viewers)

[BandSixFix]

Well. There is no way to 'prove' it per se unless it's pretty obvious that she wrote on the paper. Observational evidence can be weak, especially if a few other people didn't witness it too. I think it's better to let Karma poison her next meal - if she did it that is. How is she doing relatively in this course compared to you?

 

[WrittenLoveLetters]

Do you always beat her in assessment tasks? Are you smarter than her?

Back in Year 11, she was 1st/2nd for almost everything. But thats not the case now. For Maths, I do not think I am smarter than her. But I outperformed her in the first assessment and was a little under her this time, if anything, we are neck-to-neck.

If you did report her, how do you know she'd know it was you who reported it? Were you the only one who saw her apparently cheating?

It was the end of the school day, everyone was bustling around asking questions and packing their bag to leave. I was the only one amongst that ruckus that went up to her (she was the only one seated) and like friendly chatter, asked her how she went. If she realised that I saw the black pen in her hand and her writing, she would know it was me who reported it - but would I care if she knew? Not really. But I presume she thought I was naive and dumb because she actually had the audacity to continue writing stuff in her working booklet in black.

It's a hard situation to be in, and as awkward as it may be, she shouldn't be entitled to outperform others that were obliging by the conditions.

Think of it like plagiarism - unacceptable.

I find it unacceptable too, everyone should earnestly work for their marks rather than cheating and claiming percentages they didn't earn.

Well. There is no way to 'prove' it per se unless it's pretty obvious that she wrote on the paper. Observational evidence can be weak, especially if a few other people didn't witness it too. I think it's better to let Karma poison her next meal - if she did it that is. How is she doing relatively in this course compared to you?

Yup, definitely why I made this post. All my evidence is observational. And it sucks that I have no one else to back me up. I've mentioned it before, but I can easily identify where she has written and I really don't know if a student would go out of their way to make lies about someone cheating unless I'm that fucked in the head. Comparatively, she is suppose to be better (I don't know about her 2U) than me in Maths, however, we are pretty close in terms of marks.

 

[StudiousStudent]

If you are neck in neck with regard to marks, and she gets just 1 extra point from presumably cheating, it'll stuff your rank.

Express your concerns to the teacher, I'm sure they would know how to handle a situation like this.

 

[InteGrand]

If you are neck in neck with regard to marks, and she gets just 1 extra point from presumably cheating, it'll stuff your rank.

Express your concerns to the teacher, I'm sure they would know how to handle a situation like this.

If you're 1 mark behind someone in the end internally, it generally doesn't make too much difference. Relative gaps between people in terms of marks is important too, not just rank.

 

[BandSixFix]

Yup, definitely why I made this post. All my evidence is observational. And it sucks that I have no one else to back me up. I've mentioned it before, but I can easily identify where she has written and I really don't know if a student would go out of their way to make lies about someone cheating unless I'm that fucked in the head. Comparatively, she is suppose to be better (I don't know about her 2U) than me in Maths, however, we are pretty close in terms of marks.

I think you should go for it - very very discreetly though. You have literally nothing to lose - Maths is one of the, if not the most, objective subject for a teacher to mark. You're protected.

 

[StudiousStudent]

If you're 1 mark behind someone in the end internally, it generally doesn't make too much difference. Relative gaps between people in terms of marks is important too, not just rank.

I'm currently ranked third with someone else in a class, and the teacher said if one of us receives one point more, it's obviously going to impact our rank.
So I'm not quite sure I follow what your saying with regard to marks.

E.g of our marks for assessments to date:
95 me / 92 her
91 me / 93 her
89 me / 90 her

Talk to me like a child.

 

[WrittenLoveLetters]

I'm currently ranked third with someone else in a class, and the teacher said if one of us receives one point more, it's obviously going to impact our rank.
So I'm not quite sure I follow what your saying with regard to marks.

E.g of our marks for assessments to date:
95 me / 92 her
91 me / 93 her
89 me / 90 her

Talk to me like a child.

If you're pretty close to someone and get a lower/higher external exam (just by a little) - it usually stays around the same.

I got the same HSC mark as #4 - #7 in Business Studies when I was #9

 

[InteGrand]

I'm currently ranked third with someone else in a class, and the teacher said if one of us receives one point more, it's obviously going to impact our rank.
So I'm not quite sure I follow what your saying with regard to marks.

E.g of our marks for assessments to date:
95 me / 92 her
91 me / 93 her
89 me / 90 her

Talk to me like a child.

I can't remember the full or exact details, but iirc the distribution of marks is important, not just the ranks. The full process is described in the PDF attached in this quote:

This is not correct.

Although that method may be used by other institutions in other circumstances, it is not used by the Board of Studies NSW to moderate raw school assessment marks. The moderating procedure uses a quadratic function and is non-linear.

You can verify that the transformation is non-linear by inspecting the conversion graph at the bottom of this page. It is a curve rather than a straight line.

The detail of the procedure is explained in the following technical paper, a copy of which is attached to this post:

MacCann, R.G. 1995, The Moderation of Higher School Certificate Assessments using a Quadratic Polynomial Transformation: a Technical Paper, NSW Board of Studies, Sydney.

We implemented a crude web app some years ago to allow students to experiment with the moderating procedure by entering different marks, but it seems to have ceased functioning through the various site upgrades. Perhaps someone can recreate it.

Attachments: View attachment 24602

.

Maybe I'll read through that document again (haven't read it for a while), but I recall that they use a quadratic interpolation (with modification in some extreme or special cases). But iirc if you're really close marks-wise to someone say five ranks above you internally, it should generally be better than being a long way behind the people above you but having a better rank. Best to check out that document for the full details.

 

[Kolmias]

Edit: Re-read what was said. The problem is that if you do report, they won't revert her mark back to the original but rather award her a 0 or harsher penalty. The HSC is cutthroat though, every man for himself. Ultimately, it's your call and in all honesty, I would report the incident. Her being a friend kinda sucks and luckily I haven't got a friend who cheats.

I agree with this statement. The HSC is survival of the fittest and you should take any advantage you get.

 

[Jakulore]

I honestly can't say what to do in this situation. Clearly you are the one who is being unfairly disadvantaged and something should be done about that, but you have no way of determining how the teacher will act or what kind of repercussions she will face, if any.

I have a similar situation in that DURING my Bio half yearly, one of my friends got up and literally asked one of the exam supervisors (who sometimes teaches Bio) if he was doing a question right, to which he was told he was doing it wrong and was told how to fix it. I honestly didn't know what to do at the time and another friend and I just looked at each other like "wtf?". My teacher doesn't know about it, nor have I confronted the person about it... But I feel I will just let it be.

All in all, I suppose that you probably wouldn't be posting about this if you didn't want to report her, so that will probably be the best option for you to have a clear conscience and know that you have been vindicated. Irregardless, I'm sure it won't impact you too heavily if you don't but at the end of the day, why settle for worse than you deserve? Especially when your rank or that one mark could mean all the difference.

 

[leehuan]

Don't report her.

Firstly, you have absolutely zero evidence. What exactly do you think is going to happen?

"Ok thank you for reporting ___ with no evidence at all, we'll give her 0" said no teacher, ever.

If she's able to cheat by just writing in a different coloured pen, then she deserves to get away with it. The system needs to be fixed, not her attitude.

What even

 

[Sien]

Don't report her.

Firstly, you have absolutely zero evidence. What exactly do you think is going to happen?

"Ok thank you for reporting ___ with no evidence at all, we'll give her 0" said no teacher, ever.

If she's able to cheat by just writing in a different coloured pen, then she deserves to get away with it. The system needs to be fixed, not her attitude.

So following your logic, if a murderer gets away with what he or she did, it's the systems fault, not the murderer's. So the murderer doesn't have to change their ways or attitude

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

 

[WrittenLoveLetters]

She has to change her attitude/mindset - if you're not happy with an exam mark, you work harder and smarter for the next. You don't fucking break the trust of teachers giving you the ability to review your paper and have no fucking morals to dishonestly disadvantage others. Fuck your system fixing bullshit.

Anyways.

I reported her. And I told the teacher all my observational evidence. I was then asked if I knew what question it was and told her the page of the exam paper she was on and the area which she wrote in on her working booklet. And did it line up with the teacher who gave her extra marks yesterday? Yes.

 

[Jakulore]

Hopefully it will all work out then, she will lose her marks and she will never do that again.

 

[iStudent]

This is like one of those ethical scenarios they ask you for medicine interviews lol. Friendship or ethics. There's no wrong or right answer and both has solid arguments.

 

[StudiousStudent]

She has to change her attitude/mindset - if you're not happy with an exam mark, you work harder and smarter for the next. You don't fucking break the trust of teachers giving you the ability to review your paper and have no fucking morals to dishonestly disadvantage others. Fuck your system fixing bullshit.

Anyways.

I reported her. And I told the teacher all my observational evidence. I was then asked if I knew what question it was and told her the page of the exam paper she was on and the area which she wrote in on her working booklet. And did it line up with the teacher who gave her extra marks yesterday? Yes.

I'm glad! It's like that terrorism add - if you see something that doesn't add up then report it.

 

[Flop21]

This is like one of those ethical scenarios they ask you for medicine interviews lol. Friendship or ethics. There's no wrong or right answer and both has solid arguments.

Why do they ask it then? To see what kind of person you are?

 

[baktiar77]

I reported her. And I told the teacher all my observational evidence. I was then asked if I knew what question it was and told her the page of the exam paper she was on and the area which she wrote in on her working booklet. And did it line up with the teacher who gave her extra marks yesterday? Yes.

Damn. That was quick. Obviously what you did was fair and just but I think you should have given her the opportunity to come clean to the teacher herself after you have a little chat with her in private and if she refused then you should have went to the teacher.

Anyway, don't let this dishearten you. In my MX1 class, the guy who came first with 93% was honest and told our teacher there was a counting error and he was meant to lose 2 marks and he thus lost his 1st rank. Good to know there are always some honest people still around even in the competitiveness of the HSC.

 

[turntaker]

Who cares bruh. Everyone cheated before.

Plus as others said, you are not the teacher. So nothing can be done.
You have no evidence.

 

[WrittenLoveLetters]

1) I did approach her privately - she said she did no such thing

2) I brought it up to the teacher, her marks were reduced after some investigation etc (I don't know what happened but apparently they questioned her)