Why we need religion.... (2 Viewers)

[lengy]

I meant in terms of having a comment on the article. Can't be bothered ranting about it. I care about my Atheism, can't I be indifferent or apathetic towards religion? Or do I have to lust for it's destruction 24/7 as well?

 

[S1M0]

lets [/thread]

There's only one way a thread like this can go, and it ain't pretty.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

There's only one way a thread like this can go, and it ain't pretty.

Civil war? I really don't follow you.

 

[S1M0]

Civil war? I really don't follow you.

A Flame war.


Much like the Israel vs Palestine flame war, except that it'll be Athiest vs Theist.

 

[KFunk]

Quoting article:

Yet you rarely have to look far to be reminded of the indispensability of God and religion .

To show examples of religious individuals/groups doing 'good' things does little to prove that god/religion is indispensable (I assume they mean in a moral sense). In particular, the argument has the potential for dodginess if by 'indespensable' they mean 'necessary if a judaeo-christian set of moral values is to be upheld - thus making them important'. To my mind this argument (if it is the intended one) seems to beg the question in some respects.

What the examples seem to display is a certain brand of morality being acted out by religious individuals. The author concludes, based on the underlying assumption that this kind of morality is important, that these people are important - needed or indispensable, in other words. However, the underlying assumption of the importance of the judaeo-christian ethic already asserts the importance of such religions, insofar as they exist as reservoirs for this particular set of values.

What has the author shown? Simply that they agree with the values of certain religious groups. (Edit: The argument seems to model the assertion 'Religion is important from a religious perspective'... which is pretty vacuous really)

 

[Slidey]

Then KFunk saved the day, and they all lived with a roller-coaster of emotions ever after.

 

[KFunk]

Who wants to enter the tunnel of ethical skepticism? It's fun, I swear!

 

[Tulipa]

You all realise that the Vatican endorsed Hitler?

And institutionalised religion on a large scale has often been responsible for some of the most heinous acts in the past few thousand years right?

 

[_dhj_]

Quoting article:



To show examples of religious individuals/groups doing 'good' things does little to prove that god/religion is indispensable (I assume they mean in a moral sense). In particular, the argument has the potential for dodginess if by 'indespensable' they mean 'necessary if a judaeo-christian set of moral values is to be upheld - thus making them important'. To my mind this argument (if it is the intended one) seems to beg the question in some respects.

What the examples seem to display is a certain brand of morality being acted out by religious individuals. The author concludes, based on the underlying assumption that this kind of morality is important, that these people are important - needed or indispensable, in other words. However, the underlying assumption of the importance of the judaeo-christian ethic already asserts the importance of such religions, insofar as they exist as reservoirs for this particular set of values.

What has the author shown? Simply that they agree with the values of certain religious groups. (Edit: The argument seems to model the assertion 'Religion is important from a religious perspective'... which is pretty vacuous really)

This post made me smile on the inside.

 

[bazookajoe]

You all realise that the Vatican endorsed Hitler?

Only because the Concordat signed in 1933 with Hindenburg, not Hitler, stated that the bishops had to take an oath of allegiance to the government. And when Hitler violated the Concordat in 1937, Pope Pius XI protested against Nazism through an encyclical throughout German churches.

You realise, of course, that the British government endorsed Hitler as well? As well as numerous other governments at that time

 

[Tulipa]

Oh yes.

I'm just pointing out that even the Church thought Hitler was an okay dude to begin with.

They aren't removed from it.

And the encyclical meant little, they could've done much more to stop it considering that one of the oaths of Nazism was to swear allegiance to the church. People would've listened if they knew that the Church was against him.

 

[snowbunny]

i wish religion didn't exist...

would make the world alot simpler and peaceful

but thats just my opinion

 

[ur_inner_child]

i wish religion didn't exist...

would make the world alot simpler and peaceful

but thats just my opinion

If God wasn't real, and religion was just an institutional sham, it's still a way to access hope, optimism and meaning. You might say that you can obtain all of these without religion, but not everyone in this world, with their various situations has a "strong" state of mind.

 

[_dhj_]

If God wasn't real, and religion was just an institutional sham, it's still a way to access hope, optimism and meaning. You might say that you can obtain all of these without religion, but not everyone in this world, with their various situations has a "strong" state of mind.

In that sense I think the existence of religion is natural. When so many ask questions there will be those that purport to have the answers. At the risk of trivialising the issue, it's simply a case of demand driving supply, and suppliers trying to influence demand through marketing.

 

[lengy]

So the weak minded resort to religion to get them through the day?

 

[ur_inner_child]

So the weak minded resort to religion to get them through the day?

Hence my if's and but's. I didn't like phrasing it as "strong" and "weak" minded people in the first place.

Again, if God is fake, and religion is a scam, I'll say the following:

So this guy, who happened to be religious, lived in slavery his whole life had his whole family got raped, tortured and murdered. And you're going to tell him that this is all there really is for him?

If religion is his way to live on, keep his sanity and moral compass intact and daresay, move on, then why not let him believe what he wants to believe? Why the fuck not? And you're going to tell him he's unintelligent, illogical or ignorant for doing so?

 

[_dhj_]

So this guy, who happened to be religious, lived in slavery his whole life had his whole family got raped, tortured and murdered. And you're going to tell him that this is all there really is for him?

If religion is his way to live on, keep his sanity and moral compass intact and daresay, move on, then why not let him believe what he wants to believe? Why the fuck not? And you're going to tell him he's unintelligent, illogical or ignorant for doing so?

Okay sure but that's part of the reason why he takes the slavery shit, otherwise he would unite with his fellow slaves and overthrow the owner. In fact the social changes like gender and racial equality, the sexual revolution etc. tended to coincide with the secularisation of society.

 

[lengy]

I see what you did there.

 

[HotShot]

You all realise that the Vatican endorsed Hitler?

And institutionalised religion on a large scale has often been responsible for some of the most heinous acts in the past few thousand years right?

And you endorsed the Vatican??.. At one point in stage there must been a man who wasnt religious - but then he became and then passed his learnings onto others.

If religion is his way to live on, keep his sanity and moral compass intact and daresay, move on, then why not let him believe what he wants to believe? Why the fuck not? And you're going to tell him he's unintelligent, illogical or ignorant for doing so?

Actually religion can be quite the opposite. Practising religion often requires strict discipline, maybe not eating certain things at a particular time, praying in certain manner, preaching etc etc .. maintaining cleanliness.

So you will find people who are well off, are often religious because its the religious underlying values - of respect, discipline and self-control that helped them to be successful.

In this case people can adopt religion as manner of progressing in life. Whilst others may find other suitable ways to do so.

But to blame religion for the problems of the world - is quite simply what a stupid person would say.

 

[lengy]

Religion/Lack Of Religion doesn't kill/rape/pillage/manipulate/sodomise/genocide/discriminate people, people kill/rape/pillage/manipulate/sodomise/genocide/discriminate people.