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Why do people hate religion? (2 Viewers)

robbie1

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Am I talking to a brick wall?

go and read the Ten Commandments...slowly....and tell me which of them allows for murder, or war....if you find one I will happily step down.

How can you blame "Christianity" for war when its central aspects are love and forgivneness....why dont you talk about Islamic terrorists who justify their actions using the Qu'ran?
 

mr_brightside

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withoutaface said:
1. Being anti-religion does not make someone "confused".
2. I don't have a religion because I don't believe in God. Simple as that.
qft
 

ur_inner_child

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robbie1 said:
with many more insults thrown my way because of my beliefs.
If you find any insults directed towards you, report it
Although constructive criticism against your belief is allowed.
I'm sure you're able to figure which is which. :)
 

Not-That-Bright

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go and read the Ten Commandments...slowly....and tell me which of them allows for murder, or war....if you find one I will happily step down.
Is that the extent of your biblical knowledge?

How can you blame "Christianity" for war when its central aspects are love and forgivneness....why dont you talk about Islamic terrorists who justify their actions using the Qu'ran?
Er... well I do and I have a similar argument with muslims. They say 'No but I KNOW my religion and no one who would do such things is a real muslim', but the fact is what the text its self states or you think it states matters very little - when examining religion we usually look at the way the claimed adherants practice(d) it.
 
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littlewing69

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robbie1 said:
Am I talking to a brick wall?

go and read the Ten Commandments...slowly....and tell me which of them allows for murder, or war....if you find one I will happily step down.

How can you blame "Christianity" for war when its central aspects are love and forgivneness....why dont you talk about Islamic terrorists who justify their actions using the Qu'ran?

Have you read the rest of the OT? Blink and you'll miss the 10C and be back into the bloodshed.

Exodus 15:3 says the "the Lord is a man of war", and the rest of the OT bears this out. Sodom and Gommorah, encouraging the Israelites to commit genocide, etc etc ad nauseum. OT God isn't a terribly peaceful guy. Of course, he mellows out by the time the sequel rolls around, but there is plenty of justification for violence in the Bible for any whacko who wants to become a homestyled Christian jihadi.

One could, for example, justify bombing a gay nightclub on the basis of the Bible's prescription of the death penalty to homosexual 'crimes'. As has happened several times, a Christian could bomb an abortion clinic as a manifestation of God's righteous judgement. A Christian or a Jew could rightly believe that there is Biblical precedent for fighting bloodily for the Holy Land. A Christian could rightly believe that violence/war is justified in freeing a 'mission field' from a hostile regime. Jesus himself said "“Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword.” He goes on to say that his ministry will turn brothers against one another. This seems to me to be a justification for placing religion before all else.

There is perhaps less overt exortation to violence in the Bible than in the Koran, but that's a function not of the God represented therein (it's the same guy), but the way in which the two texts were created. One was written after the fact as a sort of history of God from a human perspective, while the other was a direct revelation from God.
 
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littlewing69

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Not-That-Bright said:
Is that the extent of your biblical knowledge?
It's a pity a lot of Christians have never read the Bible, isn't it....


Er... well I do and I have a similar argument with muslims. They say 'No but I KNOW my religion and no one who would do such things is a real muslim', but the fact is what the text its self states or you think it states matters very little - when examining religion we usually look at the way the claimed adherants practice(d) it.
Bingo.
 
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Which religion are you thinking of? Most religions I know of assert a consciousness after-life :/
Hmm, well perhaps an 'existance' but not necessarily a 'conscience' existance. It is well known that it is possible to see back in time, perhaps all our actions are visible in one way or another.

But they're much further away from dead than the oldies :/
They're also the most likely to be effected, it's to fragile a state for them not to be living and wondering, life is already confusing as it is.

Well, when examining the universality of all the physical laws we see that they must have come to exist at one stage(as they don't vary), and are a direct result of another law(as they are self supporting), therefore no 'physical' action are the cause of any one law(because of their universality) which governs our universe. So, where did the first law come from?(Think Logically)


Nice rhetoric... but you know... How so? Nope you're making unjustified inferences.
Logically, if this universe was created, either the creator is not flawless or creates flaws to test. Correct? (note the 'or' in the strement)

It is not inevitable. It is perhaps very likely that intelligent alien life exists somewhere else in the universe, however our universe is a very big place and spans a wide length of time... the chance of there being intelligent life out there, that can reach us, that is in our timeframe... seems slightly less likely.
Alas, but do you even know of time? Time does not exist to the faint minded, and is purely an illusion of human beings. What we 'know' as time is purely a weak understanding which we fit into our minds to understand everything. The time it takes for the Earth to rotate around the Sun once. (not even really, prior to the copernical model, we used similar time scales to understand time). However, time is measured very differently when done accurately.

Big and finite are two different understandings. You infer that the universe if finite, I challenge that as more ridiculous then the logic which I proposed do you agree?
If it is finite, if life existed naturally on earth, and if we are not from a creator. Then logically the universe is filled with intelligent life.(perhaps in every quarter, of every solar system, in every cluster, of every galaxy.) Waiting to be discovered.

I think often these hints are human delusions. We see order in the chaos when all there is, is chaos. It's much like a puddle gaining consciousness and believing that it must have been created for a purpose... because I mean it gets rain all the time to keep it full and it has this hole that it exists in - it exists, so therefore something wanted it to exist.... but that's just a big ole falacy :)
Lovely how you put it, a puddle is an excellent example, your example perfectly supports your purpose. I'll use a different example. A cup of cofee gaining conscienceness and wondering what is its purpose. Surely, we are more like a cup of cofee then like a puddle of water. Especially as we are unique to anythign we've ever seen, this should make us question. Do you agree?

Well there's alot more evidence that at least, once life got started on earth, we evolved naturally. Going all the way back to the beginning there's no solid naturalistic explanation, but it still matters little... you're claiming that there CAN NOT be a natural explanation - I submit that you better have some damn good proof for that :)
There is little probability of that. But, it is possible.

I don't know whether they necessarily are. But for the most part, atheists generally come from richer backgrounds, have high levels of education and above average intelligence. Perhaps that's why?
Nice, Logical explanation. (That's just how I like them.)

Anyway, to the 'Does God Exist?' Thread if you want to continue to argue.
I'll see you there! Bring your thinking cap and brass knucles, because you'll need them.
 

Not-That-Bright

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Hmm, well perhaps an 'existance' but not necessarily a 'conscience' existance. It is well known that it is possible to see back in time, perhaps all our actions are visible in one way or another.
What? I don't know what you're saying, but I do know that most religions that I've encountered that have an afterlife assert you would have consciousness in this afterlife.

Well, when examining the universality of all the physical laws we see that they must have come to exist at one stage(as they don't vary)
Err... yes they must have come to exist.

and are a direct result of another law(as they are self supporting),
No we don't. There's no proof that these 'laws' came about due to other laws or any such nonsense Sam.

So, where did the first law come from?(Think Logically)
It is just as possible that they all came into existance at the same time.

Logically, if this universe was created, either the creator is not flawless or creates flaws to test. Correct? (note the 'or' in the strement)
No, those aren't the only two options. Either the creator is not flawless, or the creator has flaws, or the creator is flawless and creates flaws to test people or the creator is not flawless and creates flaws to test.

Alas, but do you even know of time?
We understand time quite well.. there's nothing supernatural about it or mystical.

Time does not exist to the faint minded, and is purely an illusion of human beings.
Purely an illusion of human beings? What? That's like saying matter is purely an illusion of human beings.

You infer that the universe if finite, I challenge that as more ridiculous then the logic which I proposed do you agree?
:/ Just because something is finite doesn't negate the fact that it's VERY, VERY big.

If it is finite, if life existed naturally on earth, and if we are not from a creator. Then logically the universe is filled with intelligent life.(perhaps in every quarter, of every solar system, in every cluster, of every galaxy.) Waiting to be discovered.
Perhaps the universe is filled with intelligent life, however I still put it to you that the chance that there is intelligent life, near enough to contact us and in the same time-frame as us makes it even more unlikely that we will ever find such life.

A cup of cofee gaining conscienceness and wondering what is its purpose.
No, not wondering 'what is its purpose' but imagining that the universe was created for it - that's what my example deals with. The cup of coffee example fits just as well as the puddle one, a cup of coffee becomming conscious and imagining that the cup it exists in, that the ingredients it is given, means that the universe was made for it. Never quite realising how insignificant in the broader scheme of things it really was.

I'll see you there! Bring your thinking cap and brass knucles, because you'll need them.
Ok just don't post gay porn, I'm not the biggest fan of it.
 

robbie1

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littlewing69 said:
It's a pity a lot of Christians have never read the Bible, isn't it....
For your information, I read the Bible everyday.

I ask you again to read the Ten Commandments (God's rules which must be followed if you are a Christian) and tell me which of them say war is OK.
 

ur_inner_child

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robbie1 said:
For your information, I read the Bible everyday.

I ask you again to read the Ten Commandments (God's rules which must be followed if you are a Christian) and tell me which of them say war is OK.
unfortunatley religious leaders in history did not just base their ideas on soley the ten commandments.
 

robbie1

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ur_inner_child said:
unfortunatley religious leaders in history did not just base their ideas on soley the ten commandments.
Yes....they were very deluded and ignored the most important aspect of Christianity - to love your neighbour.
 

ur_inner_child

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Well, what would you have done if you really though Jeruselum was the Holy Land and it was under someone else's control that did not particupate in Christianity?

I'm not saying you'd do the same thing, but you can kkiiiinnnndddaaa see why it came to be.
 

lengy

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Religion is a prison. You aren't free to hate in the same sense that you are free to love. You can't have one without the other. You aren't allowed to experience what you want to, feel what you want to, do what you want to. It's all bound up in these idealist rules that are quite often broken. It's hypocritical to call yourself 'Christian' yet break the codes day after day.
 

ur_inner_child

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Nolanistic said:
Say you were held at gunpoint and you had an opportunity to kill a man that was going to kill your entire family. Killing him would not be against the Biiebl. Believe me, I know more about the Bible than you do, you fucking happy clappy goddamn adherent to a bastardisation of Christianity.
No I've asked those sorts of circumstantial murder scenarios eg euthansia, mercy killing, abortion etc to robbie1. He's the type that rules out murder in all cases. Murder is murder and all of it is sinful, regardless of anything.

(And none of that abuse above please).

If anything it shows reason to why I can't identify myself with religious people. If religious thought was consistent and was always about love etc, I think maybe I would've stayed religious.
 

Not-That-Bright

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For your information, I read the Bible everyday.
I ask you again to read the Ten Commandments (God's rules which must be followed if you are a Christian) and tell me which of them say war is OK.
Well the ten commandments tend to come into conflict with some other stuff in the bible, if we take your view of them. So generally people will instead claim that they're circumstancial i.e. As a general rule It's wrong to murder, however murder can be justified in some circumstances, many of which are explained in the bible.
 
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littlewing69

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robbie1 said:
For your information, I read the Bible everyday.

I ask you again to read the Ten Commandments (God's rules which must be followed if you are a Christian) and tell me which of them say war is OK.
If you read it every day, I would've thought you'd be capable of dealing with parts of the Bible that are more difficult than the 10C....

You're right, the 10C doesn't advocate war, but that's not the point. Christianity is not the 10C. They were just ten of many hundreds of rules given to the Jews. The OT is full, as I have already said, of stories of God advocating and participating in wars which I think would fairly be described as Holy Wars. You have yet to address this point without sticking your fingers in your ears and yelling "TEN COMMANDMENTS TEN COMMANDMENTS TEN COMMANDMENTS!!!!". In any case, the Beatitudes are far and away a much better example of Christian aversion to war than the 10C.
 
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littlewing69

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Yes....they were very deluded and ignored the most important aspect of Christianity - to love your neighbour.
Way to misquote Jesus. I think you'll find he prefaces that bit with "and another is like it", having said the most important thing is to love God.

EDIT: I realise this is represented differently in the various gospels, but I think it would be fair to say that Jesus always stressed love of God first.
 

VollDoggy

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Guys this isn't the "Does God Exist?" forum nor is it the "Is War Justified By Religion Forum"(yet to be created), the point is what drives people away from religion? Threatening people into fights is by no means constructive, Christians shouldn't be encouraged to beat people up, nor should anyone provoke such actions

As to add to the war debate it comes down to interpretation of the Bible, Prayer and the how we percieve the world around us. Religion (as in the church side) itself should not be encouraging violence. As Christians we should not go and fight people just because they are doing something that we don't like or we don't agree with their point of view. Any fighting that we do engage in should be under the directive of God, who will rally the neccessary army, to fight and conquer what or whoever needs obtaining or conquering. We have faith in God who will ensure that we do what is right. Too many people, especially in this forum have blamed all Christians for the crusades and the battle for Israel when in reality they (the people of today) did not fight it. Again some actions should not mark a group in general, the problem is that they have. War should be with reason and initiated by God, not man (e.g. WW1 and WW2)

As with all aspects of the Bible war is open to interpretation. It should be interpreted and analysed critically, it may not always be best to take it into our hands, try praying for each other instead of bickering, it makes Christianity look bad!!
 

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i ask this question again
this time someone respond with a good answer
Why dont people hate aethism, over religion?

after all, the majority of killings/deaths throughout history have been caused by aethist.
look at hitler, stalin, the chinese cultural revolution.
clearly aethism has been the product of more evil than religion.
 

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The one thing that's more annoying than the religious christians are the anti-religious people, they dont notice it by they try to impose their beliefs more forcefully than the average christian, and have an illogical overt hatred of christianity because they percieve it to be oppressive (Islam on the other hand is fine ofcourse) - most of the stuff these so called science-adhering anti-religious people show as evidence for their beliefs is no more believable than the christian variations, the difference is that the anti-religionites actually pretend theirs is. I have yet to be questioned on my religion by any christian, pleanty of atheists have done it however - I think everyone should keep their stupid beliefs to themselves, starting with the muslims, then atheists, then christians (in that order).
 

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