• Best of luck to the class of 2024 for their HSC exams. You got this!
    Let us know your thoughts on the HSC exams here
  • YOU can help the next generation of students in the community!
    Share your trial papers and notes on our Notes & Resources page
MedVision ad

what proof is there that god exists? (1 Viewer)

sweet_16

New Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2009
Messages
26
Gender
Female
HSC
2011
Thank you very much for your question.

One important point we need to understand in the first place is that the existence of God cannot be proved in the same way you prove the existence of a physical object. This is simply because God is not a physical object. Any physical object is subject to your five senses. In simple terms, you can see, hear, smell, touch or taste a physical object. This is not possible in the case of God, as He (swt) is a Transcendental Being [existing on a level beyond our sensual perception].

There are people who argue that the only form of knowledge available to humans is experiential knowledge or experimental knowledge, gained primarily by the use of outer senses. This led to the belief that human beings are constituted in such a way that the knowledge of reality is always unavailable to them; and so it resulted in a renewal of attention to the everyday world of appearances. The knowledge of here and now became the only object of human knowledge and concern. Thus from this point of view, the project of seeking knowledge of reality behind appearances must be abandoned, because it is beyond the scope of human understanding.

Now think: Can’t there be a way of “being” [existing], that is not susceptible of being perceived by the limited capabilities of humans through their defective senses?

I hope that the implications of the two expressions I used above [‘limited capabilities’ and ‘defective senses’] are evident to any thinking person. The claim that something does not exist, because you haven’t seen or heard it, etc. is untenable. When we consider the limitations of our sensual perception and of our reasoning powers, it is not necessary that we understand everything. We can speak meaningfully about everything simply on the basis of our perception. So to speak of “proof” with regard to a Transcendental Being becomes irrelevant.

What we can do is to point out facts which lead to a constant and inescapable awareness of the presence of God. It is clear that logically we cannot rule out the possibility of more things existing than can be perceived by our senses or can be arrived at by our reasoning. As for Man, there are two dimensions to his existence: One of matter and the other of spirit.

Reduced merely to the level of material existence, Man becomes a machine, or a mere animal at best. But think of a machine that rebels against being a machine; or of an animal that refuses to be an animal. That is what man is! What is it that makes him rebellious, angry, disappointed, frightened or hopeful? What is his dimension that gives him his imagination, his artistic genius, his creative urge? Why does he have nightmares and sweet dreams?

It is not matter that does it; evidently it is his spirit that makes him so different from animals. So to base our knowledge of the world and our philosophy of life simply on the material side of our existence to the complete exclusion of the spiritual dimension, is undoubtedly faulty. The strength of Islam as a philosophy and as a way of life is that it does not separate man’s material life from spiritual life, and that it seeks a balance between the two dimensions of human existence.

We should understand that human spirit is a reality incommensurable with material realities, and that it owes its existence only to God. Thus dear brother, if we ponder over the phenomena of the world around us and over the complexities of our own existence, we are bound to conclude that God is the Reality behind all appearances. The Holy Qur’an says in Surah 2, verse 164, the meaning of the following:

[FONT=Verdana, Helvetica]*{Behold! in the creation of the heavens and the earth; in the alternation of the night and the day; in the sailing of the ships through the ocean for the profit of mankind; in the rain which God Sends down from the skies, and the life which He gives therewith to an earth that is dead; in the beasts of all kinds that He scatters through the earth; in the change of the winds, and the clouds which they Trail like their slaves between the sky and the earth;- [Here] indeed are signs for a people that are wise.}*[/FONT]​
[FONT=Verdana, Helvetica]That is to say the external signs we see in the universe should necessarily lead a wise person to the Ultimate Reality behind it all. And that is how we arrive at the realization that Allah Almighty is the Moving Power behind all life and all existence.

And Allah knows best.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Helvetica][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Helvetica]allah means god


[/FONT]
 

AJ92

Member
Joined
May 21, 2009
Messages
34
Gender
Female
HSC
2009
^^ Once would have been enough. Havent you ever heard of editing?
 
Joined
Jun 14, 2009
Messages
225
Gender
Male
HSC
N/A
thank you very much for your question.

One important point we need to understand in the first place is that the existence of god cannot be proved in the same way you prove the existence of a physical object. This is simply because god is not a physical object. Any physical object is subject to your five senses. In simple terms, you can see, hear, smell, touch or taste a physical object. This is not possible in the case of god, as he (swt) is a transcendental being [existing on a level beyond our sensual perception].

There are people who argue that the only form of knowledge available to humans is experiential knowledge or experimental knowledge, gained primarily by the use of outer senses. This led to the belief that human beings are constituted in such a way that the knowledge of reality is always unavailable to them; and so it resulted in a renewal of attention to the everyday world of appearances. The knowledge of here and now became the only object of human knowledge and concern. Thus from this point of view, the project of seeking knowledge of reality behind appearances must be abandoned, because it is beyond the scope of human understanding.

Now think: Can’t there be a way of “being” [existing], that is not susceptible of being perceived by the limited capabilities of humans through their defective senses?

I hope that the implications of the two expressions i used above [‘limited capabilities’ and ‘defective senses’] are evident to any thinking person. The claim that something does not exist, because you haven’t seen or heard it, etc. Is untenable. When we consider the limitations of our sensual perception and of our reasoning powers, it is not necessary that we understand everything. We can speak meaningfully about everything simply on the basis of our perception. So to speak of “proof” with regard to a transcendental being becomes irrelevant.

What we can do is to point out facts which lead to a constant and inescapable awareness of the presence of god. It is clear that logically we cannot rule out the possibility of more things existing than can be perceived by our senses or can be arrived at by our reasoning. As for man, there are two dimensions to his existence: One of matter and the other of spirit.

Reduced merely to the level of material existence, man becomes a machine, or a mere animal at best. But think of a machine that rebels against being a machine; or of an animal that refuses to be an animal. That is what man is! What is it that makes him rebellious, angry, disappointed, frightened or hopeful? What is his dimension that gives him his imagination, his artistic genius, his creative urge? Why does he have nightmares and sweet dreams?

It is not matter that does it; evidently it is his spirit that makes him so different from animals. So to base our knowledge of the world and our philosophy of life simply on the material side of our existence to the complete exclusion of the spiritual dimension, is undoubtedly faulty. the strength of islam as a philosophy and as a way of life is that it does not separate man’s material life from spiritual life, and that it seeks a balance between the two dimensions of human existence.

we should understand that human spirit is a reality incommensurable with material realities, and that it owes its existence only to god. Thus dear brother, if we ponder over the phenomena of the world around us and over the complexities of our own existence, we are bound to conclude that god is the reality behind all appearances. the holy qur’an says in surah 2, verse 164, the meaning of the following:
[font=verdana, helvetica]*{behold! In the creation of the heavens and the earth; in the alternation of the night and the day; in the sailing of the ships through the ocean for the profit of mankind; in the rain which god sends down from the skies, and the life which he gives therewith to an earth that is dead; in the beasts of all kinds that he scatters through the earth; in the change of the winds, and the clouds which they trail like their slaves between the sky and the earth;- [here] indeed are signs for a people that are wise.}*[/font]​
[font=verdana, helvetica]that is to say the external signs we see in the universe should necessarily lead a wise person to the ultimate reality behind it all. And that is how we arrive at the realization that allah almighty is the moving power behind all life and all existence.

And allah knows best.
Allah means god
[/font]
suck me off
 

theism

Resident Apologetic
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
1,047
Location
Within the interwebz
Gender
Male
HSC
2009
^^ Once would have been enough. Havent you ever heard of editing?
i'm surprised she didn't do it a 5th time..

5 being a significant number for muslims and all..

anyway yeah people have 'risen' from the dead.
IIRC there were several cases in africa.

there was also a few cases in the united states.
google them they'll come up
 

ClockworkSoldier

Clockwork Army
Joined
Sep 4, 2008
Messages
1,899
Location
Melbourne
Gender
Male
HSC
2008
Kinda like analysis, logic and stubborness? You didn't just hear it, thought it sounded convenient and went along with it? I think we all do that, all the time. You didn't reason your way into clothing, sustenance, entertainment, etc. In fact I would wager that you have of yourself created nothing. Everything you have ever utilised was something that was convenient and you just went along with it, else you wouldn't have made such a pompous and pitiful argument as that.

You're not as smart as you think you are boy.
Who said I think I'm smart? Heh. I don't think I'm smart, quite the opposite actually.

The points you presented about clothing etc. are rather invalid. Those things are drummed into you from a young age. It is "immoral" or "socially unacceptable" to not wear clothes in public, a rule created by the bible, yes.

Religious views are often drummed in from a early age, but I know many people who have heard "the word of god", and simply followed without any consideration of hard facts. These people aren't analytical or logical. They are mules. These people get extremely aggravated when I point out FACTS proving other than their belief system.

Define "created". I am a musician, and have "created" my own songs, my own mix of styles, even designed and built my own instrument... Not a conventional instrument like what you recognize, but something from my own ideas. Sure, I utilized conventional tools to make it, but there is not one like it in the world.

Besides, I wasn't presenting an argument, I was responding to a post.

Don't call me boy, you arrogant, condescending fuck.
 
Last edited:

theism

Resident Apologetic
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
1,047
Location
Within the interwebz
Gender
Male
HSC
2009
You mean doctors resuscitating their patients (CPR)? Cus I don't think that counts.

Or if you mean otherwise, how were they brought back to life? Was jesus there again? Why doesnt it happen more often? 300,000 people die a day around the world from accidents, murders, suicides, etc... why aren't they brought back to life?
Matthew 10
Jesus Sends Out the Twelve
1He called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out evil[a] spirits and to heal every disease and sickness.

2These are the names of the twelve apostles: first, Simon (who is called Peter) and his brother Andrew; James son of Zebedee, and his brother John; 3Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus; 4Simon the Zealot and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him.

5These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: "Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. 6Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel. 7As you go, preach this message: 'The kingdom of heaven is near.' 8Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy,drive out demons. Freely you have received, freely give.


and no it wasn't the doctor resuscitating them.
it was when they were pronounced dead,
then they came back to life.


when i was working in ministry, i had heard of this word of faith healer, who was a doctor working in sydneys western suburbs.

he would pray for his patients, and they would be healed.
(he asked if he could pray for them before he did)
what was very interesting was that the NSW department of health actually took him to court to stop praying for his patients because they were getting healed.

very interesting and controversial

anyway guys i have to pack my bag and leave for retreat.
be back in a few days
 

J O K E R

New Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
16
Gender
Male
HSC
2009
Some People Ask Show Me God, Here's something

Look at the sun, If You Cant Bare to look at the creation, how can u bare to look at the creater. do you agree?
 

ad infinitum

Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2009
Messages
312
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
N/A
There's no complete proof on 'either side' of the Zeus, fairy and unicorn debates. Why is it that you knuckle heads keep hammering your dense heads on this point- this isn't one of your hammer hitting classes at TAFE. Go look up what science is, how demarcation works and how and truth is inducted.
 

thongetsu

Where aren't I?
Joined
Nov 9, 2008
Messages
1,883
Gender
Male
HSC
2010
God does not exist in my opinion. If he created man in his image, when we find aliens it'll be WTF man. I belive life does exist out there, we just haven't found it yet. The universe is so vast. The chance of other life not being created is infinitismal.
 

ClockworkSoldier

Clockwork Army
Joined
Sep 4, 2008
Messages
1,899
Location
Melbourne
Gender
Male
HSC
2008
There's no complete proof on 'either side' of the Zeus, fairy and unicorn debates. Why is it that you knuckle heads keep hammering your dense heads on this point- this isn't one of your hammer hitting classes at TAFE. Go look up what science is, how demarcation works and how and truth is inducted.
Don't knock TAFE dude.

Lol.
 

Japanese_rambo

New Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2009
Messages
14
Gender
Male
HSC
N/A
sel-explanatory,im currently a non-believer.so enlighten me with your'e insight,any way you can and persuade me with near unconditional certainty that any kind of "god" exists and what does this mean for my life.

My friend, GOD is not something that someone needs to prove or show you.
It is a way of life, a belief in one self, and represents reflections of yourself on others. To question it, is destroying its good. Just enjoy it. I do not go to church by the way. i do not go to the other places of worship either. But god is in my heart.

When your scared, need help or are really nervous.. do you say help me god? Why dont you need to see him then?

God can be as big or little in your life as you want to be.

Hope you find your answers.
 

mirakon

nigga
Joined
Sep 18, 2009
Messages
4,221
Gender
Male
HSC
2011
Some People Ask Show Me God, Here's something

Look at the sun, If You Cant Bare to look at the creation, how can u bare to look at the creater. do you agree?
How can I see a 'creater' if I haven't even heard of such a thing?
 

mirakon

nigga
Joined
Sep 18, 2009
Messages
4,221
Gender
Male
HSC
2011
There's no complete proof on 'either side' of the Zeus, fairy and unicorn debates. Why is it that you knuckle heads keep hammering your dense heads on this point- this isn't one of your hammer hitting classes at TAFE. Go look up what science is, how demarcation works and how and truth is inducted.
F---. Someone please neg rep this buffoon. I've had enough of the crap spiels of ad infinitum.
 
Joined
Dec 18, 2007
Messages
3,411
Gender
Male
HSC
2009
Uni Grad
2013
God does not exist in my opinion. If he created man in his image, when we find aliens it'll be WTF man. I belive life does exist out there, we just haven't found it yet. The universe is so vast. The chance of other life not being created is infinitismal.
Thisx87697910^78907603257890325
 

Sharii

New Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2009
Messages
5
Gender
Female
HSC
2010
you just need to have faith. and even if there isnt a god out there it gives people comfort to believe that there is and believe that there is a higher power. I myself have doubted the existence of god but it comes down to what you want to believe. There is really no way toprove the existence of god but some of us are willing to take a chance.
 

theism

Resident Apologetic
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
1,047
Location
Within the interwebz
Gender
Male
HSC
2009
I don't think that would it would qualify as "being brought back to life" if they just died for a few seconds. If they had been dead for like, a week, a month, a year, then maybe. And like I asked, why doesn't it happen more often?
mm was hours i think..
and not just '1 or 2' but more longer hours

why don't you win the lottery more often?


And that healer thing is just a bunch of rubbish. Many people are out there claiming to be "healers", but are actually people trying to con the needy and desperate.
i agree with you there. many.. but not all.


(I've seen it on today tonight).
are you trolling or what?


And your court statement is preprosperous. Simply preprosperous. Going to court to get an injunction to stop someone from praying... lol
i think so too
 
Joined
Jun 12, 2009
Messages
352
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
N/A
you just need to have faith. and even if there isnt a god out there it gives people comfort to believe that there is and believe that there is a higher power. I myself have doubted the existence of god but it comes down to what you want to believe. There is really no way toprove the existence of god but some of us are willing to take a chance.

Which God are you talking about......?
Zues? Rah? Thor? Ganesh? Jesus?
how do you know which one to pick?
Oh wait, let me guess, you parents picked for you..yea, you see, that's how every single cult survives, due to evolution by natural selection, we absorb what our parents tell us during early childhood.
 

NumCha

New Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2009
Messages
1
Gender
Male
HSC
2010
Obviously there is no absolute proof of any God.
If there was then their would only be 1 religion.

and if there was absolute proof of all Gods being a sham
then the world would be full of Atheists

Religion thrives off the fact that it can't be proven false.
much like :Russell's Teapot: Theory
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

Top