We have a new pope! (2 Viewers)

[Xayma]

gays: romans has a few things to say about this. basically to be a christian, you're not expected to be perfect - but God does want you to truly repent of everything that is a sin. and if you haven't repented for a sin and don't at least try to change your ways, then how can you expect his forgiveness?

anyway that's just how i see it...looking forward to the reign of pope benedict XVI!

Gay's do not want God's blessing, they want to be treated the same by humans as heterosexuals are. The church has a large influence on how humans think, humans should not be trying to do God's work for "him". People should not draw up laws based upon religious teachings.

 

[Korn]

Gay's do not want God's blessing, they want to be treated the same by humans as heterosexuals are. The church has a large influence on how humans think, humans should not be trying to do God's work for "him". People should not draw up laws based upon religious teachings.

Well i dont have a problem with homosexuals, but i do follow conservative catholicism that gays shouldnt be admitted as priests.
However I think they should allow married ppl to become priests and clergy, as there is an ever increasing decline in the # of ppl entering clergy

 

[ur_inner_child]

oooooooooooooooooookay imhere4themusic, I'm debating here so don't get angry like last time!

there are QUITE a few muslim girls without head scarves now.... so indeed it can change. They still pray several times a day and such, so change CAN happen.

I believe in God, and I'll critisize all I like. I am all for the core parts of Christianity, just this shit about female priests, abortions, etc, those petty rules, I'll critisize. I may not be a traditional/conservative Christian, but I think I'm loyal to the faith and I disregard the stuff that would probably turn me atheist, if it hasn't in the past.

The pope is meant to represent a large role in Christianity, so it DOES concern me on what he says is right and wrong. The role is meant to be influential, he's in a position of power, and I'm totally interested.

I don't feel that walking away (as a Christian and a thinker) is the mature thing to do. So that point you raised about leaving them and accepting that it won't ever change is a bit pessimistic.

No change would have happened with that kind of attitude. How would Martin Luther King make a speech about equality if he just walked away to accept that things will never change or improve? How would women have had any voice, right to vote or have a career if they accepted things could never improve/change?

Although change may not be total, it can happen, so I don't agree with you telling us to walk away and accept it.....

 

[Rafy]

yup definately just abolish religion.

 

[Korn]

oooooooooooooooooookay imhere4themusic, I'm debating here so don't get angry like last time!

there are QUITE a few muslim girls without head scarves now.... so indeed it can change. They still pray several times a day and such, so change CAN happen.

I believe in God, and I'll critisize all I like. I am all for the core parts of Christianity, just this shit about female priests, abortions, etc, those petty rules, I'll critisize. I may not be a traditional/conservative Christian, but I think I'm loyal to the faith and I disregard the stuff that would probably turn me atheist, if it hasn't in the past.

The pope is meant to represent a large role in Christianity, so it DOES concern me on what he says is right and wrong. The role is meant to be influential, he's in a position of power, and I'm totally interested.

I don't feel that walking away (as a Christian and a thinker) is the mature thing to do. So that point you raised about leaving them and accepting that it won't ever change is a bit pessimistic.

No change would have happened with that kind of attitude. How would Martin Luther King make a speech about equality if he just walked away to accept that things will never change or improve? How would women have had any voice, right to vote or have a career if they accepted things could never improve/change?

Although change may not be total, it can happen, so I don't agree with you telling us to walk away and accept it.....

Martin Luther made his own denomination, Lutherans and ppl can join them if they so wish.
As for Martin Luther King he had little to do with religion and the same for women's right to work

 

[ur_inner_child]

Martin Luther made his own denomination, Lutherans and ppl can join them if they so wish.
As for Martin Luther King he had little to do with religion and the same for women's right to work

you've missed the point

i'm talking about imhere4themusic's point about walking away and accepting that things cannot change

i'm making examples of people who brought change.

If you don't believe in what the Catholics believe in then do the smarter thing. Instead of bantering about it for the rest of time, be the more mature one. Walk away, accept they won't change and don't believe in it.

Clearer now?

 

[Korn]

you've missed the point

i'm talking about imhere4themusic's point about walking away and accepting that things cannot change

i'm making examples of people who brought change.

Clearer now?

It's still irrelevant to walking away from the Catholic Church

 

[ur_inner_child]

It's still irrelevant to walking away from the Catholic Church

um.

well i think it does considering they're in a position of power when it comes to societal values, i mean look how much it influences certain laws?

Comparing This: accepting things that cannot change and walking away from the catholic church

To My Example: martin luther king accepting things cannot change and that "black" people will always be the inferior race.

it has total relevance. how can you sit there and accept dominant discourses that affect you and the society around you if you don't agree? How much will religion affect you? Maybe not so much currently, but it MIGHT, considering its influence over certain countries, their values and laws. Values CAN change. Religion has changed over time, whether you like it or not.

if you still can't see the connection, I think I'll stop talking before I get irritated, cuz it wasn't hard to understand, at least I don't think so.

Cmon Korn, don't piss me off!

 

[Korn]

um.

well i think it does considering they're in a position of power when it comes to societal values, i mean look how much it influences certain laws?

Comparing This: accepting things that cannot change and walking away from the catholic church

To My Example: martin luther king accepting things cannot change and that "black" people will always be the inferior race.

it has total relevance. how can you sit there and accept dominant discourses that affect you and the society around you if you don't agree? How much will religion affect you? Maybe not so much currently, but it MIGHT, considering its influence over certain countries, their values and laws. Values CAN change. Religion has changed over time, whether you like it or not.

if you still can't see the connection, I think I'll stop talking before I get irritated, cuz it wasn't hard to understand, at least I don't think so.

Cmon Korn, don't piss me off!

I like pissing ppl off, so u have given me reason to continue, LOL
There is a big difference between the everyday society and the Catholic Church

 

[jennylim]

hmm i think inner_child is talking about changing values in society reflecting in the church? yes?

well to be honest, i don't think there are many and i don't see why they should. things like ordination of women: yes, i think women can be great spiritual teachers, and i think that they should be able to preach, but not be in a position of authority over men in the church. abortion: no, i think that's killing an unborn child. contraception: protestants have no problem (see monty python's meaning of life)...lol...stuff about not creating a life in the first place (whereas abortion and morning after pill kill it).

fundamentalism is just about going back to what it says in the bible and sticking to it. i don't see much of a problem there, seeing as we believe it's God's word and therefore shouldn't really be changed!

and xayma: i think you're perfectly right about the gays. they should definitely be treated like people. everyone sins and in God's eyes no one is perfect - everyone, and i repeat EVERYONE is on the same level. so i take your point there and completely accept it. but no, God does not sanction homosexuality and neither should the church - it is a sin as seen in the bible and to suddenly flip and change on that issue isn't right.

 

[jennylim]

how did i know this would happen....

lol i did a talk in our school christian group about this. by fundamental, you can learn about the spirit of the teaching and leave out the contextual stuff. so in 1 timothy (where paul says he does not suffer a woman to speak in church - she must be silent) the contextual stuff is about women being silent. the spiritual stuff is about women being submissive to men. he says women can't wear pearls and braided hair to church. contextual: that's how the ephesians prostitutes dressed. spiritual: we should dress modestly in church, focussing on God and not how we look - and not trying to attract guys while we're there cos that's not the point.

the gospel of the NT is about love and forgiveness. and the OT laws were about a) proving that no one can ever be as perfect as God desires - basically showing the level of perfection and b) giving rules and regulations to live by. Jesus was the fulfilment of this - he brought the spirit of the law and he brought grace. see what he did with mary magdalene? she was "caught in adultery" but Jesus said "he who has no sin shall cast the first stone"...and nobody did. as for the slaves: Jesus tells us to respect the earthly laws. "Render unto Caesar" (i realise im flipping versions here but hey). Slavery was a law. Jesus encourages us to abide by laws (as long as they don't blatantly go against his teachings, like emperor worship in the Roman Empire etc). the precepts we take from those quotes are things like obedience, keeping your virginity and so on. which we should do.

 

[spin spin sugar]

i actually think ratzinger will be good for the church. i'm not catholic (good ol' anglican) but i still think that a guy who goes back to the real fundamentals and refuses to be bullied into weakening the truth is going to be a good leader. why liberalise just to accommodate for the public? if they don't agree with the precepts of christianity as they are, there's no point in watering it down to the point where it fails to truly be what it is.

the minority groups mentioned are mainly women and gays. about women: all i can say is that in 1 timothy chapter 2, it says that women should not be in a position of authority over a man. pretty much that's a recurrent theme in the bible - female submission. but it does not outlaw women from evangelising and teaching the gospel as missionaries, or as other teachers. gays: romans has a few things to say about this. basically to be a christian, you're not expected to be perfect - but God does want you to truly repent of everything that is a sin. and if you haven't repented for a sin and don't at least try to change your ways, then how can you expect his forgiveness?

anyway that's just how i see it...looking forward to the reign of pope benedict XVI!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAahahahahaHAHAHAHAHA HOLY FUCKING SHIT!!!!!


PRICELESS!!!!!!!!!

thank you for my entertainment today

 

[spell check]

how did i know this would happen....

lol i did a talk in our school christian group about this. by fundamental, you can learn about the spirit of the teaching and leave out the contextual stuff. so in 1 timothy (where paul says he does not suffer a woman to speak in church - she must be silent) the contextual stuff is about women being silent. the spiritual stuff is about women being submissive to men. he says women can't wear pearls and braided hair to church. contextual: that's how the ephesians prostitutes dressed. spiritual: we should dress modestly in church, focussing on God and not how we look - and not trying to attract guys while we're there cos that's not the point.

the gospel of the NT is about love and forgiveness. and the OT laws were about a) proving that no one can ever be as perfect as God desires - basically showing the level of perfection and b) giving rules and regulations to live by. Jesus was the fulfilment of this - he brought the spirit of the law and he brought grace. see what he did with mary magdalene? she was "caught in adultery" but Jesus said "he who has no sin shall cast the first stone"...and nobody did. as for the slaves: Jesus tells us to respect the earthly laws. "Render unto Caesar" (i realise im flipping versions here but hey). Slavery was a law. Jesus encourages us to abide by laws (as long as they don't blatantly go against his teachings, like emperor worship in the Roman Empire etc). the precepts we take from those quotes are things like obedience, keeping your virginity and so on. which we should do.

don't they talk about homosexuality in the OT amongst all the daugher-killing too?

so why isn't the idea that homosexuality is evil one of the things that we just laugh off as "out of context" like we do with the others?

 

[Rafy]

Hmm all the news organisations are finally refering to him as Benedict. i'll always call him Ratzinger

 

[SashatheMan]

we are all doomed, the new pope will bring destruction to the galaxy

POpe picture

 

[chookyn]

we are all doomed, the new pope will bring destruction to the galaxy

POpe picture

argh, that's freakishly disturbing!

 

[imhere4themusic]

Imhereforthemusic is right, if you don't agree with what they teach then look elsewhere. Personally i agree with the Catholic church's stance on homosexuality but don't agree with their celibacy of priests either.

Ha! Thankyou lol

 

[imhere4themusic]

oooooooooooooooooookay imhere4themusic, I'm debating here so don't get angry like last time!

there are QUITE a few muslim girls without head scarves now.... so indeed it can change. They still pray several times a day and such, so change CAN happen.

I believe in God, and I'll critisize all I like. I am all for the core parts of Christianity, just this shit about female priests, abortions, etc, those petty rules, I'll critisize. I may not be a traditional/conservative Christian, but I think I'm loyal to the faith and I disregard the stuff that would probably turn me atheist, if it hasn't in the past.

The pope is meant to represent a large role in Christianity, so it DOES concern me on what he says is right and wrong. The role is meant to be influential, he's in a position of power, and I'm totally interested.

I don't feel that walking away (as a Christian and a thinker) is the mature thing to do. So that point you raised about leaving them and accepting that it won't ever change is a bit pessimistic.

No change would have happened with that kind of attitude. How would Martin Luther King make a speech about equality if he just walked away to accept that things will never change or improve? How would women have had any voice, right to vote or have a career if they accepted things could never improve/change?

Although change may not be total, it can happen, so I don't agree with you telling us to walk away and accept it.....

Well I'm sorry you can't accept my views but hey, if you did, what fun would that be?! I'm not angry at all.

All I'm saying is this:

I'm not pessimistic, I want change, I don't agree with the church on everything. I am christian also, baptised Catholic then strayed away now attended Anglican masses.. I find them just different takes on the same movie..

Apart from all the wants and changes and needs in todays modern world i still don't think the Church should change. The bible DOES state that sex outside of marriage is wrong and such. Some people question the credibility of the bible. Whether or not it is real or made up it clearly states rules. The people of the church over a long time have come to what THIER UNDERSTANDING of these rules are. To break the rules is a mortal sin.. and to break them but confess on your deathbed like korn suggested probably isn't a sure-fire way to get in to heaven either. So these people, who BELIEVE in this book totally as the AUTHORITY AND WORD OF GOD have decided it's best to follow it or spend an eternity rotting in hell. That is what they believe. I'm not pessimistic in telling anyone to walk away I'm telling you that the church won't change on these things. It just doesn't make sense to me why someone would change their beliefs and basis for all life on earth to cop out for the media and other people. I believe in abortion, but if you want an abortion go do it. The church isn't stopping you they just disagree with it. You will be forgiven if your heart is true anyway. If you don't believe in priestly celibacy become a pope and then have sex. The church won't stop you half way through the act. Contrary to popular belief the Church doesn't control a large portion of the world, directly. It influences the world yes, but if people don't like it, don't be influenced by it.

What I am saying is the Church is not your mother. You can still be a practicsing christian loving Jesus and not go to church, or not go to the catholic church. If you want these views, go to a progressive church, just not the local catholic down the street. The church doesn't slap you on your hand like your mother does when you reach for something you can't have. I acts as an advisory board, it gives you a choice, just like god ironically. It tells you all the facts and then leaves it up to you to decide. Getting the Catholic Church and the Pope to change their views is like getting blood out of a stone, and as much as you hate it; for the rest of your life on this earth they are going to try and change yours instead. Pressuring the church into "change" isn't going to "change" anything. It would be a measly victory over a small argument. People should back off the Pope, he looks like a nice man.

I'm not meaning to offend anyones views again I'm just trying to point out. The very spirit of the first Pope Peter, is still here today. The rock. The church. They are equal and they are not moving. I just don't think the church will change it's views, no matter whether I, you, or anyone else thinks they should.

 

[Rafy]

But most of what the church apparently now stands for isnt derived from the bible

For example Benedict VIII banned clerical marriage in the 10th century not beacuse the bible said it but beacuse it was his own personal view.

And why should the church follow the bible anyway? It is a very shallow and backward way of determining ethical values. It is simply a collection of books written by various people over time . It provides guidance, yes. But it should not be the last say on any matter. It may be wrong as well (If you are dumb enough to take the bible literally, then i pity you)
We shouldnt do what some book written thousands of year tells us. We can think for ourselves.

The catholic church is going backwards. They are not keeping up with changing societal mores. And as i said before they will slowly lose influence in the western world (thats why they are scamming people in Africa and South America to follow catholcism)

 

[Lhyviathan]

They picked a 78 year old, who is going to last 10 years at most.

Funnily enough, John Howard commented that it wasn't "too old".

I reckon Peter Costello must have shitted a brick, when he heard that.