Way to chuck out John Howard! (3 Viewers)

[thorrnydevil]

1. He and hist mate Brendan Nelson raised hecs debts to the point we'll be paying them off for the rest of our life

There was no other possible way of funding a university system, you should be glad you have the facilities for tertiary education

2. He underfunds the entire education system so we will only end up with private school education which with all the hecs debts we'll be paying anyone without a shitload of money will not be able to afford in future

Look at this tool: http://www.dest.gov.au/Ministers/Media/Nelson/2004/07/n802110704.asp
He is not underfunding the education system, he is trying to even up funding so all children get an even slice of the pie.

3. He locks up people who have fled from the worst of conditions and wonders why they go crazy

He locks up people who have come through different countries which have embassies, who break the law, destroy there papers and are possibly dangerous. I know I wouldn't want a possible murderer on the streets.

4. He and his govt won't give ne more money to hospitals despite the fact that every hospital between blacktown and the central coast is almost constantly on code red or code black(emergency patients only or risk of fatality patients only respectively) while he boasts of a huge surplus

Hospitals are covered under STATE GOVERNMENT. The Commonwealth give funds to the States to fund the hospitals, its up to them if they are going to re-direct the funds.

5. he seems to think that fighting other people's wars ie iraq is going to get the US to help us in a time of need - the only time they helped us (Pacific War) Macarthur screwed us over and the australian troops had to dig us out of a big hole as the Japanese almost took port moresby

That time Macarthur screwed us over saved our arses. If it hadn't been for the Yanks we wouldn't be writing in Chinese.

6. he sets up a "free trade" agreement with the US that is hardly free trade and that screws over our sugar, dairy, cane, beef and entertainment industries.

The FTA has possibly set our place in the world economy.

7. He lied about the children overboard, he has refused to admit there were no WOMD

There were most definetly WMD in Iraq, its been proven, he didn't know about the Children Overboard situation...its called bad intelligence.

 

[neo o]

1. He and hist mate Brendan Nelson raised hecs debts to the point we'll be paying them off for the rest of our life

1) That's obviously an exaggeration.
2) How can you claim that raising HECS fees is unfair? Your university education is subsidised none the less, and additionally by going to university you gain something which is debatedly more valuable then what you pay off on the HECs debt anyway - a university degree.

2. He underfunds the entire education system so we will only end up with private school education which with all the hecs debts we'll be paying anyone without a shitload of money will not be able to afford in future

1) Not everyone goes to uni. Under that logic not everyone will be paying a HECs debt.
2) There will always be 'free' public education.
3) That point really doesn't make sense, I suggest you revise it.

3. He locks up people who have fled from the worst of conditions and wonders why they go crazy

crazy? Please cite specific examples with references. Additionally, he locks up people because they are illegal immigrants, and there is a question of whether they fled from 'the worst of conditions'.

4. He and his govt won't give ne more money to hospitals despite the fact that every hospital between blacktown and the central coast is almost constantly on code red or code black(emergency patients only or risk of fatality patients only respectively) while he boasts of a huge surplus

Please cite specifics.

Additionally you may want to check out the budget - after social security payments, health gets the second largest amount of funding.

Also, the state government provides most of the funding for hospitals and pre-tertiary education. So complain to our Labor government instead

Additionally, the reason the surplus isn't spent on health is an economic one. Currently the economy is in a period of growth, and the surplus reflects this. By spending this surplus he'd be encouraging inflationary pressures. (The government already copped some flack from analysts for the family bonus, for this reason).

5. he seems to think that fighting other people's wars ie iraq is going to get the US to help us in a time of need - the only time they helped us (Pacific War) Macarthur screwed us over and the australian troops had to dig us out of a big hole as the Japanese almost took port moresby

1) If it wasn't for the Americans we'd be living in Japan Down Under. This is an unarguable fact.

2) There are other reasons for fighting this war besides 'the US helping us in our time of need' including

- Stabilising (hopefully) a turbulent region by installing a second friendly democracy (the first being Israel).

This isn't the US's war, this is our war as well, since Sadam was a threat to Australia as well as the United States. WMDs work just as well here as in the US.

he sets up a "free trade" agreement with the US that is hardly free trade and that screws over our sugar, dairy, cane, beef and entertainment industries.

Explain the effect of the agreement on dairy and beef. Additionally, sugar isn't 'screwed over' they just didn't benefit from the agreement. Also, sugar is a dying industry due to low world prices and our inability to compete with cheap pacific rim and south american producers - sugar was already screwed, and any farmer in sugar should be getting the hell out of it regardless

PS : cane = sugar, no need to mention the same thing twice.

7. He lied about the children overboard, he has refused to admit there were no WOMD

1) He was misinformed
2) There is no conclusive proof that there WASN'T any WMD.

 

[neo o]

There was no other possible way of funding a university system, you should be glad you have the facilities for tertiary education


Look at this tool: http://www.dest.gov.au/Ministers/Media/Nelson/2004/07/n802110704.asp
He is not underfunding the education system, he is trying to even up funding so all children get an even slice of the pie.


He locks up people who have come through different countries which have embassies, who break the law, destroy there papers and are possibly dangerous. I know I wouldn't want a possible murderer on the streets.


Hospitals are covered under STATE GOVERNMENT. The Commonwealth give funds to the States to fund the hospitals, its up to them if they are going to re-direct the funds.


That time Macarthur screwed us over saved our arses. If it hadn't been for the Yanks we wouldn't be writing in Chinese.


The FTA has possibly set our place in the world economy.


There were most definetly WMD in Iraq, its been proven, he didn't know about the Children Overboard situation...its called bad intelligence.

Your sentiment is appreciated.

 

[twiddla]

There was no other possible way of funding a university system, you should be glad you have the facilities for tertiary education


Look at this tool: http://www.dest.gov.au/Ministers/Media/Nelson/2004/07/n802110704.asp
He is not underfunding the education system, he is trying to even up funding so all children get an even slice of the pie.


He locks up people who have come through different countries which have embassies, who break the law, destroy there papers and are possibly dangerous. I know I wouldn't want a possible murderer on the streets.


Hospitals are covered under STATE GOVERNMENT. The Commonwealth give funds to the States to fund the hospitals, its up to them if they are going to re-direct the funds.


That time Macarthur screwed us over saved our arses. If it hadn't been for the Yanks we wouldn't be writing in Chinese.


The FTA has possibly set our place in the world economy.


There were most definetly WMD in Iraq, its been proven, he didn't know about the Children Overboard situation...its called bad intelligence.

Hang on do i need to be more specific - lets go through one by one
1. They have ripped us off with hecs - may I remind u that the liberal party actually anounced a surplus for all but one of his budgets - so where does the money come from? There was once a time where u didn't need to pay for university. now some degrees are $100 000 plus under hecs - something that alot of families canot afford - that is a third of a house

Brendan Nelson stated that most Australian families could borrow to pay hecs - given the max educational loan from a bank is 25 000 i think that is going to be a bit hard, besides it just creates a debt cycle - How is that fair

2. The education prob. If u notice the fact that he has increased the funding to private schools by almost 150%, schools that do not need the extra funding - all this will do is increase the gap between the rich and the poor! I don't see why a school that has swimming pools, ovals and tremendous amounts of rescources needs more money - it is like giving icey poles to eskimos - or trying to wash a fish -absolutely pointless esp educaion wise

3. On the second point you have swallowed the Libs propaganda whole - have u ever heard of refugees that have papers? Have u also heard of something in this country called inocent until proven guilty?

4. I am talking about funding across the board - it is not a matter of distributing funds , there just aren't enough to support any hostpital be it in the city or the country and i'm not just annoyed at the federal govt about this it is also to do with the state govt. Last time I had a seizure something that should hospitalise me there was one hospital in the entire state that wasn't on code red or code black! thus i wasn't hospitalised

5 If u know nething about ur history then you will realise that the Japanese got to in sight of Port Moresby, there next conquest was to take Australia they had already started to bomb Darwin and Sydney. macarthur ordered them to hold up until re inforcements arrive a tactic that was both irrational stupid and would havbe made it impossible to win in those conditions. It was in fact the Australians in New Guinea who fort back against macarthurs orders and pushed the Japanese back to Buna through Kokoda again. The Austrlians were the first to actually beat the Japanese in a battle something the Americans COULD NOT DO No we wouldn't be able to speak Chinese if the Japanese had taken Australia. While the battles of Midway and the Coral Sea were important - by that time the Japanese had decided against taking Australia!!!

6 The FTA has not been of benefit to any of these industries. It basically means we are only allowed to sell a small quantity of our product to the yanks while their market is still protected. Luckily there were changes which ensured we at least still had a little bit of Australian entertainment content guaranteed. However any new media can have NO content restrictions placed on it!!

7. Well lets look at the childrem overboard - the pictures were manipulated by the dept to show what they wanted bull shit the PM didn't know what in fact happened.
The WOMD - have they found any so far? - Richard Butler the head of the team stated that they couldn't find any weapons of mass destruction!! I'm not saying there weren't ne in the first place but they were a bit behind the ball in getting to iraq to find them and there was not any when they attacked!

 

[leetom]

I find your posts amusing thornydevil.

The Japanese don't speak Chinese.

You must be the only person left on this world to still think Iraq had WMD at the time of invasion.

And your stance towards boat people is very disturbing. You want every one them locked up so no murderers are out on the streets. Do you really think a refugee would give up their old lives, sell their belongings, and risk the extremely dangerous journey to Australia to hope for a better life would do all that just to start murdering people?

who knows, this girl COULD HAVE A KNIFE!

 

[thorrnydevil]

I find your posts amusing thornydevil.

The Japanese don't speak Chinese.

You must be the only person left on this world to still think Iraq had WMD at the time of invasion.

And your stance towards boat people is very disturbing. You want every one them locked up so no murderers are out on the streets. Do you really think a refugee would give up their old lives, sell their belongings, and risk the extremely dangerous journey to Australia to hope for a better life would do all that just to start murdering people?

who knows, this girl COULD HAVE A KNIFE!

Sorry, I've got China on my mind...my mum is going there tomorrow.

Yes, I think every refugee should be locked up until there identity can be found, and to see what they really where escaping.

 

[thorrnydevil]

Or as far as we know they could be like this.

 

[leetom]

Or as far as we know they could be like this.

Move on. 21st century now. Age of fearing of anything without blue eyes and white skin is OVA.

 

[malkin86]

are there any proposed alternatives to mandatory detention?

 

[mervvyn]

Hang on do i need to be more specific - lets go through one by one
1. They have ripped us off with hecs - may I remind u that the liberal party actually anounced a surplus for all but one of his budgets - so where does the money come from? There was once a time where u didn't need to pay for university. now some degrees are $100 000 plus under hecs - something that alot of families canot afford - that is a third of a house

While I don't exactly love the uni funding changes and wholeheartedly agree that more money should go into education, tertiary and otherwise anyway, there are two things:
-It is no longer financially feasible to have free uni education. There is a surplus, but that entire surplus probably couldn't meet demand and is just as necessary to split over other areas. The plus side of HECS is that you have to have an income before you start paying it back - yes it's a debt, but it's an investment too.
-There are NO hecs places that will incur debts of $100,000. Even with the 25% increases, the top band courses that are $8000 pa now would be $10000pa next year. Medicine at UNSW for example is 6 years, which is one of the longest undergrad degrees around, would only incur $60000 or $70000 if you do the BA/MBBS 7 year combined. This is not to mention that most courses are neither that expensive or that long, and while it's a significant debt no doubt, you still have the option to pay it off with your income later - upfront is not compulsory - and the highest debt courses generally have the best earning potential. It's not perfect, i agree, but it's ok (provided you can get a place, but that's a different story)

3. On the second point you have swallowed the Libs propaganda whole - have u ever heard of refugees that have papers? Have u also heard of something in this country called inocent until proven guilty?

Agreed, the problem with mandatory detention is A) the conditions involved and B) the length of detention. I can understand wanting to detain, but I don't understand why it's necessary to keep them in the desert for 3 years doing nothing except becoming bitter.

6 The FTA has not been of benefit to any of these industries. It basically means we are only allowed to sell a small quantity of our product to the yanks while their market is still protected. Luckily there were changes which ensured we at least still had a little bit of Australian entertainment content guaranteed. However any new media can have NO content restrictions placed on it!!

Just because the FTA does not benefit a given industry does not mean it is instantly worthless. As neo_o noted, sugar is a struggling industry even with govt subsidy, but they do not lose out in the FTA, they just don't gain, and it's simlar for other industries. The key point is that some gain, some don't gain, but who actually loses because of increased import competition from the US?
That said, the US-Aus FTA doesn't really cement our place in the worl economy like thorny said - it's good diplomatically on an official level, but it's probably kinder to the US because they were relatively unwilling to make major concessions in areas we wanted, like beef. Luckily our beef is doing reasonably well, because apart from the drought, it happens to be mad cow free and sells quite well, and it's a similar story for other products. The FTA may or may not open the door to cheap imports from the US via Mexico thanks to NAFTA like Canada experienced, does anyone know?

 

[thorrnydevil]

as far as i know this could be one of your neighbours ...it probably isnt...BUT YOU CAN NEVER BE SURE!

http://lesani.fotoweb.cz/fotky/20031227_dedov/380 Time to fun with airsoft guns - Cucka.JPG

http://lesani.fotoweb.cz/fotky/2003... bacha, jinak dostanete kulickou do zadku.JPG

Well considering AK-47's and handguns are illegal in Australia it would be a little hard to get your hands onto one.

You would be right if we lived in America, but guess what, were not.

 

[thorrnydevil]

BUT BUT YOU CAN NEVER BE TO CARFUL!

But but unlike Afghanistan and the Middle East we don't have a huge arse gun problem, do we. I'm pretty sure you cant walk to your local ammo store and get an AK-47 or an Uzi.

 

[thorrnydevil]

--------------------------------------------

now seriously what are the chances of a small kid with an AK 47 landing in northern Australian...i think you should fear a farmer that goes nuts with a 22 in your area

That wasn't the point of the picture.

 

[thorrnydevil]

??????????????

and then you post a pic of a veyr young boy holding an AK ?

So what does that mean thorny devil ...clarify

Well leetom put up a photo of a little girl and said "who knows, this girl could have a knife" so I put up a photo of a child with an AK-47.

 

[thorrnydevil]

note the qualifiers in leetoms statement

'COULD' also the girl didnt have a gun...its called irony...demonstrating the stupidity of anyone actually seriously considering that a kid under the age of 5 poses any real threat...





IRONY

I know what Irony is fool. The reason I posted a picture of a child with an AK-47 is called comparison. Now, your probably picking up sarcasm.


SARCASM

 

[leetom]

I know what Irony is fool. The reason I posted a picture of a child with an AK-47 is called comparison. Now, your probably picking up sarcasm.


SARCASM

So thorny, you are prepared to defend the detainment of small children by throwing around a picture of an african kid with an AK.

What did you tye into Google to find that kid anyway? "Non-white kid with AK" ?

 

[samuelblayden]

This is something funny i saw on the Greens website while i was doing geography homework.

Seven easy steps to chuck out John Howard:

1. Create a "new folder" on your computer.
2. Name it "John Howard"
3. Send it to the recycle bin. (the bin must be empty prior to this step)
4. Empty the recycle bin.
5. Your computer will ask you: "Do you really want to get rid of "John Howard"?
6. Answer calmly, "Yes," and press the mouse button.
7. Repeat, as required.

Lame but kinda funny!

very good john howard sucks up the greens

 

[Korn]

write the name John Howard on a piece of paper and then throw it in the bin

 

[zahid]

I heard Howard likes NUNU.

is that true?

 

[Korn]

I heard Howard likes NUNU.

is that true?

I dont know, whats NUNU