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VSU Protest Today (1 Viewer)

Generator

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*Another bump*

http://www.smh.com.au/news/National...tudent-unionism/2005/06/15/1118645857307.html

Govt stands firm on student unionism
June 15, 2005 - 4:25PM


The federal government has rejected a last ditch plea by student leaders from universities across the country to soften its stance on the introduction of voluntary student unionism.

A 30-strong delegation of heads of student organisations, led by National Union of Students (NUS) president Felix Eldridge, arrived at Parliament House in Canberra to make their appeal to Education Minister Brendan Nelson.

But Dr Nelson ruled out any compromise, saying the government is not entertaining any sort of retreat from the legislation which has been presented in parliament.

"Whilst there are some people around the country who seem to want to see some softening in relation to voluntary student unionism, under no circumstances ... will the government consider any sort of retreat from the current position," he told reporters.

Under laws expected to pass once the government gains control of the Senate in July, students will no longer have to join student unions and pay compulsory union fees.

The changes would mean the introduction of user pays to subsidised services such as childcare, health care, food, entertainment, sporting clubs, accommodation advice, counselling and student support services.

The Australian Olympic Committee has said scrapping compulsory union fees for tertiary students could take $100 million out of university sports programs around the country.

NUS NSW President Sarah-Jane Collins said while ending voluntary student unionism will affect each campus and its student associations differently, no-one would benefit.

"In general, student associations expect to face huge revenue losses, serious membership retention issues and a significant drop in the level of advocacy, services and representation compared to what is currently provided," she said.

"Many associations are revenue neutral, not-for-profit, service-based organisations that exist purely to provide support and services for students on their campus."

The NUS is pushing for greater dialogue between the government and universities, their administration and student unions - all of which are opposed to the legislation in its current form.

But Dr Nelson firmly ruled out any review.

"The government and the Liberal Party has, for a long period of time, believed very strongly that students should be free ... to choose whether or not they will join a student union guild or association," he said.

"In this day and age, students are perfectly able and capable of making decisions as to where and how they will spend their money.

"They have anywhere from $140 to $600 a year forcibly removed from them when they enrol at a university (when) what they primarily want is an education."

Dr Nelson said he encouraged students to join sporting, cultural, social, and political organisations but under no circumstances should they be forced.

He said it was the third occasion the legislation had been put up in its present form, including once just before the last election.

As such, all coalition candidates who contested the last election had done so on a platform of voluntary student unionism being introduced.
The final two paragraphs are interesting. As it stands within the article's text, 'As such, all coalition candidates...' is just a cheap attempt at legitimising what is nothing more than an ideological attack. I cannot understand why he is unwilling to even consider a review or the introduction of a services fee that is administered by the universities rather than the student associations. If he was truly interested in 'freeing' the students he would seek to reform the system to ensure that essential services are protected but that the student associations become voluntary, or he would discuss the issue with all rather than just those students forever whinging about having to support what should be an altruistic ideal.
 
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Frigid

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i'm waiting for a high court challenge from the NUS as to the constitutional validity of VSU legislation. :rolleyes:
 

withoutaface

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If services are essential to gaining a tertiary education, then there are measures in place to ensure that the universities themselves can foot the bill for these services.
 

Generator

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withoutaface said:
If services are essential to gaining a tertiary education, then there are measures in place to ensure that the universities themselves can foot the bill for these services.
Sadly, essential welfare and academic support services are not essential, calculon, and the universities are not permitted to levy a fee for their provision, and if they are provided without such a fee then they are sure to detract from our actual classroom learning experience given that the funds must be diverted from somewhere.
 

Phanatical

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The thing is that with one year's worth of student fees, we could probably pay for ten years worth of essential services on campus - most of the money goes to waste.
 

walrusbear

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did anyone else find that article infuriating?

nelson is such a cock

i'm yet to find any valid reason to support VSU other than utter selfishness or idiocy
it is facing severe opposition on pretty much every admin level outside of government. yet once again the liberal gov INSISTS on being stubbornly close-minded. There is a strict refusal of progressive dialogue.

is there any other way to view this other than ideological antagonism?
 

Not-That-Bright

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i'm yet to find any valid reason to support VSU other than utter selfishness or idiocy
Get over yourself, self-righteous prick.

vsyou.org said:
It's obvious that the students who lose out under compulsory membership are the ones who don't buy things on campus, or participate in structured social events. Student politicians reckon that's a fair punishment. What's less obvious is that the students who don't get involved are disproportionately likely to come from disadvantaged backgrounds.


They don't have time for clubs, volunteering, campaigning and boozing, because they have to travel to uni from outside the affluent Eastern Suburbs, have onerous work or family commitments, or come from a non-English-speaking background.
Student organisations are, in any case, unsustainable. They could not afford to cater to all students, if all students decided to join volunteer programmes, sports teams and clubs. We're often told that UNSW has a very active student body: that's why our fees are among the most expensive in the country.
USU is all about greed, the greed of those who have to keep what a good life they have by charging us for services we don't use (to fund THEIR service).
 
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walrusbear

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Not-That-Bright said:
Get over yourself, self-righteous prick.




USU is all about greed, the greed of those who have to keep what a good life they have by charging us for services we don't use (to fund THEIR service).
thanks for that angry and stupid quip

how is promoting university community & culture greedy and self-righteous?
 

Not-That-Bright

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You were being self-righteous by claiming that pro-vsu people are greedy and anti-vsu people aren't, which is obviously not true.

It's not greedy to promote university 'community & culture', but it's greedy to force that on people because it's beneficial to you. If EVERYONE participated in everything then union fee's would be through the roof, the reason they're not through the roof is because the the people who don't live near uni and who don't have the time to participate in activities help pay for the activities of those who can.
 

withoutaface

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People who oppose VSU are afraid that next year they will only get what they pay for, as opposed to getting more than what they pay for this year because there are so many people that don't use any of the services. The argument of maintaining a university community is stupid because those that would be excluded from the community under VSU (ie those who don't pay the fees) are those that aren't participating in it at the moment anyway. I will be joining the union next year, and, yes, under USU I probably would get more benefits. My argument is not selfish, it is the argument of those who want others to continually shell out their own money for little to no benefit that is selfish.
 

Generator

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Little to no benefit? As has been argued over and over, a service does not have to be used by a particular person in order for it to be of benefit. That idea appears to be alien to many on this forum, though.
 

Not-That-Bright

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Well if there is some mysterious benefit they gain from paying money towards clubs/societies/political campaigns I'm sure they'll eventually realise this and pay the money.

I'd like to hear what benefits you claim are gained that are so great as to disadvantage the poorer students in the university and deny people the right to choose whether they believe the cost outweighs the benefit. I might think it would be good for everyone to join the gym, but I don't force everyone to.
 

withoutaface

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Generator said:
Little to no benefit? As has been argued over and over, a service does not have to be used by a particular person in order for it to be of benefit. That idea appears to be alien to many on this forum, though.
It may be of benefit to somebody else, yes, and in the end I suppose it comes down to whether a person values the right of an individual over the right of the administration.
 

Generator

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Keeping true to form, I see, NTB. Why is it that you always seem to ignore the obvious, in this case the support, welfare and advocacy services provided by the associations?

At least calculon can recognise my point (to a degree), even if he does not agree with it.
 

walrusbear

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you just don't get it

university isn't a product
unions aren't about monetary benefits

i'm calling the VSU stance 'selfish' for this reason

not some self-righteous kick
 

withoutaface

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Generator said:
Keeping true to form, I see, NTB. Why is it that you always seem to ignore the obvious, in this case the support, welfare and advocacy services provided by the associations?

At least calculon can recognise my point (to a degree), even if he does not agree with it.
If the associations themselves were run more effectively then you might have a point, but as it stands the SRC would prefer to spend their time embezzling students' money than using it to represent them.
 

Not-That-Bright

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If university isn't a product then why the hell does it cost me so much?
Unions aren't about monetary benefits, they're about providing services to some at the expense of many tho.

Keeping true to form, I see, NTB. Why is it that you always seem to ignore the obvious, in this case the support, welfare and advocacy services provided by the associations?
How much exactly would it cost to simply provide advocacy? I imagine very little.
 

Generator

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I'm not against reform, just against the unjustified attack on the associations that satisfies nothing beyond an uncompromising ideological position. I'm sure that you will find that most of those who favour a proper debate are of a similar mind.
 

walrusbear

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withoutaface said:
If the associations themselves were run more effectively then you might have a point, but as it stands the SRC would prefer to spend their time embezzling students' money than using it to represent them.
why not reform them then?
 

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