VSU Protest Today (1 Viewer)

[walrusbear]

walrusbear, look at the "where do you stand" thing, it's not that everything here is so right wing, it's that you're left wing. From my perspective, everything here is so leftwing.

Your arguments are ideological too i.e. "...collectivism is good"
Valued university as more than a consumer product? wtf? how does wanting union membership to become voluntary mean that we value it less?

i'm not that leftwing, i'm very moderate really
it's just that this country's standards have shifted so far right.
there's a lot of extreme capitalist indoctrination that can be seen in most posters here.

 

[Korn]

i'm not that leftwing, i'm very moderate really
it's just that this country's standards have shifted so far right.
there's a lot of extreme capitalist indoctrination that can be seen in most posters here.

Im actually a member of Young Labour & I support VSU

 

[Not-That-Bright]

we'll have to wait and see, but personally i'm very cynical of this VSU shite.
i'm guessing the union will die.

Well i think you're wrong. But if you're right, the only people I will feel sorry for is the people who were recieving union-supported childcare.

i'm certain it was an ideological attack from the government, borne out of their contempt for intellectualism and unions.
nowhere has nelson actually sold this policy as an actual reform for unions or in anyway enhancing or enriching university life.

Possibly it was, they fundamentally believe unions are defunkt and they saw this when they looked at university unions. They also believe in the right to have some choice, i.e. "hey maybe i don't want to be a part of the union!"

btw, how many jobs in the union are going to be lost with VSU passed?

Don't know, don't particulary care. They can try to join the workforce like the rest of us, why should they get jobs in the union that aren't essentially wanted (if they lost their job they musn't have been wanted) while everyone else has to work hard?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

i'm not that leftwing, i'm very moderate really
it's just that this country's standards have shifted so far right.
there's a lot of extreme capitalist indoctrination that can be seen in most posters here.

Oh come on
Don't you remember the flood of anti-howard, anti-bush threads? Just because some of us are right wing doesn't mean the majority of us are. I think you'll find from the "where do you stand" thread, most people are LEFT WING! *shock horror*.

 

[walrusbear]

Well i think you're wrong. But if you're right, the only people I will feel sorry for is the people who were recieving union-supported childcare.


Possibly it was, they fundamentally believe unions are defunkt and they saw this when they looked at university unions. They also believe in the right to have some choice, i.e. "hey maybe i don't want to be a part of the union!"


Don't know, don't particulary care. They can try to join the workforce like the rest of us, why should they get jobs in the union that aren't essentially wanted (if they lost their job they musn't have been wanted) while everyone else has to work hard?

hahahah
of course union jobs aren't REAL jobs.
well i can see why you're happy with VSU with that contempt for unions

 

[walrusbear]

Oh come on
Don't you remember the flood of anti-howard, anti-bush threads? Just because some of us are right wing doesn't mean the majority of us are. I think you'll find from the "where do you stand" thread, most people are LEFT WING! *shock horror*.

if most of us were left wing this 'silent majority' in support of VSU wouldn't exist, would it?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

ummm well they're not.
If they got their job, without the same level of competition that the rest of us face in the market then it's not a 'real job'. If there is no need/want/desire for them to work in that job, and the only reason they have it is because they're a part of the union, then I feel no sorrow at them losing their job.

edit: well i do believe there are some people out there who simply go "Hey! You're not taking my $600", even if they are usually left wing on most issues. I'd also like to point out that pretty much all the vsu threads (but the one started by neo_o) have been started by people PRO-VSU.

 

[Korn]

if most of us were left wing this 'silent majority' in support of VSU wouldn't exist, would it?

In correct, im a member of Youn Labour, yet I support VSU, so does this disprove ur theory

 

[walrusbear]

Im actually a member of Young Labour & I support VSU

you're in Young Labor and voted against unions??
(VSU is NOT a vote for unions, i swear its bullshit. even the government isn't pretending it's a viable option, just some extra money in students pockets)

i joined usyd labor club last year
been meaning to join the party at some stage

 

[walrusbear]

In correct, im a member of Youn Labour, yet I support VSU, so does this disprove ur theory

well it's a confounding example

i'm more confused than anything??
doesn't opposing unionism lie at odds with your support for the Labor party?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

How funny was it before the election last year when the union (tasmanian wood choppers or something) came out in support of the Liberals. I swear, that was the most baffling sight.

 

[Korn]

you're in Young Labor and voted against unions??
(VSU is NOT a vote for unions, i swear its bullshit. even the government isn't pretending it's a viable option, just some extra money in students pockets)

i joined usyd labor club last year
been meaning to join the party at some stage

I dont doubt that it is against unions, but I find it more important to support individuality and a freedom of choice, especially since the unions have achieved much of why they were created, so their usefulness is coming to an end

 

[walrusbear]

ummm well they're not.
If they got their job, without the same level of competition that the rest of us face in the market then it's not a 'real job'. If there is no need/want/desire for them to work in that job, and the only reason they have it is because they're a part of the union, then I feel no sorrow at them losing their job.

edit: well i do believe there are some people out there who simply go "Hey! You're not taking my $600", even if they are usually left wing on most issues. I'd also like to point out that pretty much all the vsu threads (but the one started by neo_o) have been started by people PRO-VSU.

i guess it's foolish to label people like that with any political stance really
seems they don't really found their beliefs on much with ideas that silly

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Well unions were created so that workers would have more power and a better working standardetc. However these days they're often corrupt and alot of workers have migrated from the unions (now that at least SOMETIMES it's possible for them to).

I'd say work standards are getting harder, but I honestly can't see how it would be possible to turn australia back into the workers paradise it once was without a loss in production that would lead to a general drop in the standard of living for all australians.

 

[walrusbear]

I dont doubt that it is against unions, but I find it more important to support individuality and a freedom of choice, especially since the unions have achieved much of why they were created, so their usefulness is coming to an end

they still have relevance
they're the only form of student representation we have
if you're at odd ends with admin you're on you're on

i should suggest that unions don't REALLY impede individuality or freedom of choice
aside from a moderately large fee at the start of each year
btw, i think this freedom of choice and individuality ironically undermines and limits the foc and individuality of select others

 

[stamos]

some people DON'T want that life, and you can call them greedy and evil but they're just normal people like you who like making friends outside of uni.

a university education means more than attending lectures and tutes
In my experience it's extremely difficult to get high marks in uni without being active in campus life. Cocurricular participation has a huge effect on your personal development. People who come to uni solely for their classes are missing out on a huge chunk of the education with which university can provide you.

The reason that companies are always out to hire people with huge amounts of extra curricular activity is because they have gotten a more comprehensive education. What you learn outside of class is intergral to your university education.

Assume that VSU will mark a decline in the participation levels for extra curricular activity. The government will still have to invest the same amount of money in education, yet those who graduate will be of a lesser quality than those who were under the USU system. In effect, I think that the government is damaging its own investment.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Well that could be true, but you could still get together with people from your uni to study, talk, etc.
I don't think cocurricular participation really leads to good marks, i think an interest in learning and being willing to talk to people outside of class etc leads to good marks.

 

[walrusbear]

Well unions were created so that workers would have more power and a better working standardetc. However these days they're often corrupt and alot of workers have migrated from the unions (now that at least SOMETIMES it's possible for them to).

I'd say work standards are getting harder, but I honestly can't see how it would be possible to turn australia back into the workers paradise it once was without a loss in production that would lead to a general drop in the standard of living for all australians.

but completely removing unions leaves us upon to so many problems.
there is no representation for the workforce, which leaves everyone upon to mass exploitation from corporate bodies

though i'm guessing your cynicism for unions doesn't extend to corporate entities

 

[Korn]

they still have relevance
they're the only form of student representation we have
if you're at odd ends with admin you're on you're on

i should suggest that unions don't REALLY impede individuality or freedom of choice
aside from a moderately large fee at the start of each year
btw, i think this freedom of choice and individuality ironically undermines and limits the foc and individuality of select others

I also mean the workers unions, for instance when they go on strike, if ur a member of the union ur expected to go on strike and r shunned if you go to work. Also in my chosen career path unions arnt really relevant

 

[stamos]

Well that could be true, but you could still get together with people from your uni to study, talk, etc.
I don't think cocurricular participation really leads to good marks, i think an interest in learning and being willing to talk to people outside of class etc leads to good marks.

yeah that's a good point, but i reckon it's a combination

people 'could' do that and get together, but i think that the general trend would be towards less participation

edit: also, people may have an interest in learning life skills from extra curricular participation, but the environment has to cater for that- otherwise they won't be able to do it