Virginia Tech Shootings (Merged) (4 Viewers)

[wheredanton]

Re: Virginia Tech Shootings

Finland (and Switzerland, which also has high gun ownership but a low incidence of gun crime) also has compulsuary miltary service.

So?

Connect the dots for the slow person.

It seems that nations with high gun ownership but low gun crime have compulsuary miltrary service.

The gun regulations also seem to be very strict. Semi Automatics have to be in a special gun safe. Licencing is strict.

It's not as though you can have your weapons laying on the coffee table in America.

I'll scouring the internet to see if there is a requirement that guns be kept under lock and key in Virginia. Post it here if you find it.

Virginia Gun laws
ASSAULT WEAPONS
Are there limitations on assault weapons and magazines? No
No state restriction on the sale or possession of military-style semiautomatic assault weapons like the AK47 and Uzi.

CHILD-SAFETY LOCKS
Must locking devices be sold with guns? No
No state requirement that guns be sold with child-safety locks that could prevent a tragic accident. Child-safety locks cost as little as $10 and could save lives if sold with firearms.

GUN SHOW CHECKS
Are background checks required at gun shows? No
No state requirement that a Brady criminal background check be done on people buying guns at gun shows if they are sold by "private" individuals or gun "collectors." Gun shows can operate on a "no questions asked, cash-and-carry" basis, making it easy for criminals and even juveniles to buy as many guns as they want at gun shows, including assault weapons.

JUVENILE POSSESSION
Are minors restricted from possessing guns? Partial
State law restricts juveniles under 18 from possessing handguns or assault weapons without parental permission or authorized supervision. But there are no restrictions on juveniles possessing other rifles or shotguns.

JUVENILE SALE
Is it illegal to sell guns to kids? Partial
State law restricts selling or giving handguns to juveniles under 18, and other firearms to juveniles under 12. There are no limits on selling or giving kids 12 or older rifles, shotguns or even assault weapons - without even parental permission.

Um, the PRC is a socialist republic. Cuba is a socalist republic.

I clarified before. But you neglected to read that.

I refered to the socialist or left leaning welfarist nature of the Finnish government, not it's system of government.

 

[walrusbear]

Re: Virginia Tech Shootings

War on Drugs.

say what?

 

[scarybunny]

Re: Virginia Tech Shootings

People say "Guns don't kill people; people do".

But I think the guns help. If you just stood in front of someone and said "BANG", I don't think you'd be killing too many people. Maybe if they had a dodgy heart...

[/eddie izzard]

On topic- This is one of those freak psycho killing sprees where the only way to prevent it would have been to get the murderer some psychological help a while back. People who want a gun will get a gun. Less guns is good, though, because it means less accidental deaths.

 

[jb_nc]

Re: Virginia Tech Shootings

Virginia Gun laws

I'll scouring the internet to see if there is a requirement that guns be kept under lock and key in Virginia. Post it here if you find it.

Myth: “Safe storage” laws protect people
Fact: 15 states that passed “safe storage” laws saw 300 more murders, 3,860 more rapes, 24,650 more robberies, and over 25,000 more aggravated assaults in the first five years. On average, the annual costs borne by victims averaged over $2.6 billion as a result of lost productivity, out-of-pocket expenses, medical bills, and property losses. "The problem is, you see no decrease in either juvenile accidental gun deaths or suicides when such laws are enacted, but you do see an increase in crime rates."

Fact: Only five American children under the age of 10 died of accidents involving handguns in 1997. Thus, the need for “safe storage” laws appears to be low.

Fact: In Merced California, an intruder stabbed three children to death with a pitchfork. The oldest child had been trained by her father in firearms use, but could not save her siblings from the attacker because the gun was locked away to comply with the state’s “safe storage” law.

Can cite.

 

[wheredanton]

Re: Virginia Tech Shootings

Myth: “Safe storage” laws protect people
Fact: 15 states that passed “safe storage” laws saw 300 more murders, 3,860 more rapes, 24,650 more robberies, and over 25,000 more aggravated assaults in the first five years. On average, the annual costs borne by victims averaged over $2.6 billion as a result of lost productivity, out-of-pocket expenses, medical bills, and property losses. "The problem is, you see no decrease in either juvenile accidental gun deaths or suicides when such laws are enacted, but you do see an increase in crime rates."

Fact: Only five American children under the age of 10 died of accidents involving handguns in 1997. Thus, the need for “safe storage” laws appears to be low.

Fact: In Merced California, an intruder stabbed three children to death with a pitchfork. The oldest child had been trained by her father in firearms use, but could not save her siblings from the attacker because the gun was locked away to comply with the state’s “safe storage” law.

Can cite.

I said nothing about possessing knowledge about whether keeping guns under lock and key lowered or increased gun crime.

I was simply contradicting your assertion that

It's not as though you can have your weapons laying on the coffee table in America.

...which from what I can find is untrue. Unless of course you can find me somewhere the requirement in Virginia state laws that guns be kept under lock and key.

As for your study I'm pretty sure there are other citable studies out there that directly contradict yours. In any case statistics like those can be distinguished on local conditions. American statistics are unlikely to be applicable to Australia or any other nation and vice versa.

 

[jb_nc]

Re: Virginia Tech Shootings

I said nothing about possessing knowledge about whether keeping guns under lock and key lowered or increased gun crime.

I was simply contradicting your assertion that

Answer: some states have lock-up laws, some states do not.

 

[scarybunny]

Re: Virginia Tech Shootings

Oh and just maybe the college should have gotten people to hide in their rooms BEFORE the second group of 31 people were killed. When two people are found shot dead on campus methinks that just continuing with the day is not a good idea.

20/20 hindsight, I suppose.

 

[jb_nc]

Re: Virginia Tech Shootings

Good luck for your distant aunt/uncle and lets hope she/he does not siphon off public money like most argentinian leaders in a secret bank account in the bahamas.

lol. Argentinians just can't resist.

American statistics are unlikely to be applicable to Australia or any other nation and vice versa.

Ok, here are some random Australian statistics that might appeal to you.

Myth: Gun control in Australia is curbing crime

Fact: Crime has been rising since a sweeping ban on private gun ownership. In the first two years after gun-owners were forced to surrender 640,381 personal firearms, government statistics show a dramatic increase in criminal activity. In 2001-2002, homicides were up another20%.

From the inception of firearm confiscation to March 27, 2000, the numbers are: Gun murders up 19%. Armed robbery up 69%. Home invasions up 21% The sad part is that in the 15 years before national gun confiscation: Firearm-related homicides dropped nearly 66%. Firearm-related deaths fell 50%

Fact: Gun crimes are rising throughout Australia after guns were banned. In Sydney alone, robbery rates with guns rose 160% in 2001, more in the previous year.

Can Cite.

 

[Evergreen]

Re: Virginia Tech Shootings

WOW. HOLY SHIT GUYS. i just found out this guy was korean. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/17/AR2007041700456_4.html?hpid=topnews

man i cant believe this. i not only feel for the victims, but also the shooter's parents. they did nothing wrong and get this kind of shit news...:burn:

 

[HotShot]

Virgina Tech Massacre

ABC (america) News report:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjTrwLpbbVw
Fox News report:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uLLjTa6GKE

1. 2nd time in less than a year - the campus was shut because of a shooting
2. 7.15am? wtf...
3. thats it - congregation to begin the 'healing process' - gee americans take these too lightly.


So it is safe to carry gun around? Think it of like this compare university of other countries where gun ownership laws are stricter and tell me if which university is safer? american or rest of the world?

A person with a gun can kill many people. A person with a knife with can kill one or two not as many

Had there been guns been illegal in the first place - the korean dude wouldnt have go the gun in the first place and would be at his place playing CS instead.

The police shot him.

 

[Ged Janet]

Re: Virgina Tech Massacre

True. I know it's hard to change a Constitution-like-document, but America really should eliminate the Article in their Bill of Rights that states each person has the 'Right to be armed'.

 

[iamsickofyear12]

Re: Virgina Tech Massacre

This kind of shit is why if I lived in America I would carry a gun.

 

[breaking]

Re: Virgina Tech Massacre

America is a joke of a country, their govt is a bunch of pathetic murderers. u wanna noe y they take things like a boody massacre so lightly? same reason they used to enter Iraq and kill any hope for innocent people. now, christian arabs there that had protection under govt rule, now have none!

the american govt-not ppl, believe they are superior and that every action they take, for instance invading my home country, is allowed. and as for the soldiers they sent, most are pathetic and cowardly, hiding behind the 'green zone'. an insult to my people, if they dont want to engorse in 'normal' arab life- one which they so carelessly sabataged, then they should just piss off! the 'green zone' is also an insult to real soldiers who fought in wars under no protection...and they want us to feel sorry for them, 'risking their lives' .bulfukincrap! the only ones i'd feel sorry for are the lives they devestaded, not shallow soldiers who hide under the 'green zone' . sadly this covers most australian soldiers..wheres the spirit the ANZAC had? and y r they evenn there in the first place? cuz howard is bushs lil dog
pathetic.

 

[Tulipa]

Re: Virgina Tech Massacre

True. I know it's hard to change a Constitution-like-document, but America really should eliminate the Article in their Bill of Rights that states each person has the 'Right to be armed'.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Yeah right.

Uh huh. You go right ahead and delete a couple things out the documents that the United States of America was founded and built on. While you're at it, why don't you just eliminate free speech? You know, that's really pesky these days. I mean, it's not that big a deal right?

 

[xXeMoxXxCoRexX]

Re: Virgina Tech Massacre

So it is safe to carry gun around? Think it of like this compare university of other countries where gun ownership laws are stricter and tell me if which university is safer? american or rest of the world?

A person with a gun can kill many people. A person with a knife with can kill one or two not as many

Had there been guns been illegal in the first place - the korean dude wouldnt have go the gun in the first place and would be at his place playing CS instead.

The police shot him.

April 26, 2002 : At Gutenberg Gymnasium in Erfurt, Germany, 19-year-old Robert Steinhäuser killed 16 people and himself within just 10 minutes. Among the dead were 12 teachers, the school secretary, two students and a policeman. Steinhäuser had been expelled from the school one year prior to the attack.

March 27, 2002 : Thirty-three-year-old Richard Durn opened fire at a town hall in western Paris, calmly shooting at 40 people, killing eight of them. He committed suicide by jumping out of the fourth floor of police headquarters after he was captured.

September 26, 2001 : A 57-year-old attacker forced his way into the parliament of the Swiss canton Zug and opened fire. He killed 14 people before turning his gun on himself.

June 8, 2001 : Former janitor Mamoru Takuma rampaged through an elementary school in the Japanese city of Osaka. He stabbed eight children to death and wounded a number of others. He was sentenced to death and was hanged in September 2004.

May 22, 1997 : In north-eastern Brazil, a former soldier killed 17 people. First he murdered his wife and mother-in-law before leaving his home and firing randomly at people on the streets. The reason for his attack appears to have been rumors about his apparent homosexuality.

April 28, 1996 : Thirty-five people were killed and a further 37 wounded when 28-year-old Martin Bryant went on a rampage in the town of Port Arthur on the island of Tasmania in Australia. Bryant opened fire in a café with an automatic weapon before moving to the neighboring gift shop and then the parking lot outside. It took hours before the police were able to capture the killer.

March 13, 1996 : In the deadliest attack on children in United Kingdom history, 43-year-old Thomas Hamilton opened fire in a school gymnasium, killing 16 five- and six-year-olds and one teacher in the Scottish town of Dunblane. Hamilton then committed suicide.

September 23-24, 1995: In the French town of Toulon, a 16-year-old student killed his step-father, his half-brother and his mother on the evening of Sept. 23. The next morning, he continued his rampage, killing a further 10 victims.

December 6, 1989 : Twenty-five-year-old Marc Lepine killed 14 women and wounded a further 13 people at the École Polytechnique at the University of Montreal in the worst school massacre in Canada's history. He then took his own life. In a letter he left behind, he indicated a hate for feminists as a motive for the shooting.

June 11, 1964 : In Volkhoven near Cologne, Germany, an army veteran stormed a school, killing eight children and stabbing two teachers to death.

And then there's events like Beslan, or the fact that places like Johannesburg, South Africa has 50 murders per day.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Re: Virgina Tech Massacre

Yeah Gun control doesn't work. If you want a weapon you can gain access to it.

Government control doesn't work. There are millions of Gun owners in the world, one of them committed a crime.

He bought it man. As much as I'm completely iffy on whether gun control will stop gun crimes, I'm fairly sure at the very least it will serve as somewhat of a burden for angsty teens that just had their girlfriend dump them (though we have had the example of a teen bringing a crossbow instead).

 

[iamsickofyear12]

Re: Virgina Tech Massacre

He bought it man. As much as I'm completely iffy on whether gun control will stop gun crimes, I'm fairly sure at the very least it will serve as somewhat of a burden for angsty teens that just had their girlfriend dump them (though we have had the example of a teen bringing a crossbow instead).

There are already too many guns out there. The really psychotic people are going to be able to get their hands on one whether they buy it legally or illegally.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Re: Virgina Tech Massacre

There are already too many guns out there. The really psychotic people are going to be able to get their hands on one whether they buy it legally or illegally.

I agree. But wouldn't it serve as more of a problem for your angst-ridden teen who's just on a whim gotten crazy enough to decide to shoot people if he had to have criminal connections or go out searching for a gun?

 

[iamsickofyear12]

Re: Virgina Tech Massacre

I agree. But wouldn't it serve as more of a problem for your angst-ridden teen who's just on a whim gotten crazy enough to decide to shoot people if he had to have criminal connections or go out searching for a gun?

For some people yes, that's why they have waiting periods, but for someone who is crazy enough to kill 30 people I don't think even that's enough to stop them.

 

[undalay]

Re: Virgina Tech Massacre

BAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Yeah right.

Uh huh. You go right ahead and delete a couple things out the documents that the United States of America was founded and built on. While you're at it, why don't you just eliminate free speech? You know, that's really pesky these days. I mean, it's not that big a deal right?

Idiot.

free speech? wtf that still exists? since when?