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[666_blessings]

While we're on the topic... what exactly is postmodernism can you tell me please?
Because i've always been confused about what it is.

Pomo is basically the literary era starting about mid 1900's. It's difficult to define like most of the other eras but one to look at it would be a reaction against the modernist era (famous modernist writers include TS Eliot, James Joyce, Virgininia Woolf). That's not to say that the modernsit era has ended. Lit. eras are never quite as clear cut as to have a demarcation line.

All lit eras have a set of techniques which define it and pomo is no different. Because it is still in its developing stages, there will be more techniques introduced (some great, others not so good). The most prominent ones are: aleatory writing, parody, pastiche, magic realism and absurdism.

Hope that clears thigns up a bit. If you have any further questions, drop me an email.

 

[jhakka]

You're joking, right?

People that manage to get into the showcase, are seen by the markers to be of a notch higher than the submitted material, overall; and as a side note thats not necessarily based on the highest overall HSC mark.

There are apparently only two types of postmodern works. Ones that do extremely well, and ones that do extremely bad.

I too had made the same assumption as well on postmodern works, but those postmodern works that "abuse postmodernism" in such a way to allow them to do all sorts of "crazy things", tend to be those that are extremely bad, and recognised to be so by the markers, through reading the actual work AND the reflection statement AND, the optional read, the journal. Refer to any of the postmodern works, and if you encounter something you don't understand something in it; then refer to the reflection statement. Anything that does "crazy things" without a basis, is NOT postmodernism!

There's a difference from simply not understanding a work at all and thus not appreciating it (and thus saying its a bad work), and understanding it, and not appreciating it (but admitting, and understanding why it is a good work).

Saying that a few of the works in the showcase are terrible is just plain arrogance, and an insult to, not only the author, but the markers that labelled it to be tops.

My own bitterness aside, you have to remember that the markers are just teachers. That means that they are certainly not the authority on what is or is not good writing. Just because they think it is a good work doesn't mean that it is. For the most part it just fulfills the criteria set out by the Board of Studies.

In any case, I have not enjoyed a single Showcase short story to date because I think that most of them are intellectual masturbation, and that the author is overreaching. Unfortunately that seems to the the key to Ext 2.

Oh, and I also think that those who do Postmodernism in Extension 1 have an unfair advantage. Correct me if I'm wrong, but most Showcase works are postmodern-esque.

 

[glitterfairy]

^^ Is some of that wise to say, considering the company we keep? lol.

In regards to postmodernism:

EE2 has always been subjective and likely always will be. Furthermore, there will always be a "trend" of some kind, and in this case it is postmodern works. It is only natural for some of the lazybums out there to fall upon it as an easy tool ("fragmentation here, confusing bit here, yup, I'm done") but as it has been mentioned above - truly terrible works are often recognised as such, and one would hope after years of lazy people falling on the "easy way", people would discover that one truly does not exist.

That being said, a great part of the HSC is knowing how to work the system... and the further away I drift from the HSC, the more often I say that... :S

 

[jhakka]

I said Showcase short stories. Last time I checked, Katie did poetry.

And yes, HSC is all about what the markers want. Even if you write something killer, if they're not looking for it, it won't get the marks.

Someone said to me on this forum somewhere, if you want to write your own thing, do it on your own time. If you want marks, work out what they want, and write it.

 

[glitterfairy]

^^^ Sorry. I was jumping the gun a little.

Nice advice about what to write and when, though.

 

[OutOfOrder]

So markers are generally looking for Postmodernist writings?

damn.

 

[glitterfairy]

In a general off-the-record sense, yes-ish. However, you can still score quite highly with a non-postmodern work, and you can still score quite low with a pathetic wannabe pomo work, so somewhere in between is your happy medium.

 

[jhakka]

My mate did a choose your own adventure cri-fi and got 48/50. There is hope, yet.

 

[glitterfairy]

Ooh! One of the girls in the HSC the year before mine also did a choose-your-own fiction MW, and did very well.

How remarkable that we dissemble when we are faced with no single authoritative reading? (ok. Something is REALLY messing with my head. I blame Jane Austen!)

 

[jhakka]

Jane Austen is just... yuck.

In any case, anything I said above is just a generalisation. Everyone stands some chance (even if it's not much of one) regardless of what genre/form/whatever you use.

What they want is for you to know the form, genre and appropriate content for your work. But a bit of po-mo won't go astray if it's good. Bloody po-mo. Bloody bloody.

 

[666_blessings]

Unfortunately, the fun composing part of EE2 also happens to come with a whole pile of research into medium and subject matter. When pomo is good, it's great. When it's bad, it brings the plague with it.

 

[black_man]

What they want is for you to know the form, genre and appropriate content for your work. But a bit of po-mo won't go astray if it's good. Bloody po-mo. Bloody bloody.

what would you feel are elements of postmodernism? i'm not sure exactly what are sort of derivatives of the form. would things like conceptualism, aestheticism, and metaphysical sort of influences be considered vaguely postmodern?

i'm sorry to ask, i'm not really well read on the subject at all

 

[jhakka]

Neither am I, actually. I never studied it in Extension 1, and I had (and still have) no inclination to write in that style myself.

For the most part (the stuff that shits me because it's not in the least bit genuine), its just "weird for the sake of being weird" (when people abuse it).

If you want a bit of good pomo-esque stuff, check out Llyrai's major work, which can be found in the 2004 BOS Showcase. And if you want reliable info on it, I'd ask around in the Extension 1 forum.

 

[Alimoe_KG]

You're joking, right?

People that manage to get into the showcase, are seen by the markers to be of a notch higher than the submitted material, overall; and as a side note thats not necessarily based on the highest overall HSC mark.

There are apparently only two types of postmodern works. Ones that do extremely well, and ones that do extremely bad.

I too had made the same assumption as well on postmodern works, but those postmodern works that "abuse postmodernism" in such a way to allow them to do all sorts of "crazy things", tend to be those that are extremely bad, and recognised to be so by the markers, through reading the actual work AND the reflection statement AND, the optional read, the journal. Refer to any of the postmodern works, and if you encounter something you don't understand something in it; then refer to the reflection statement. Anything that does "crazy things" without a basis, is NOT postmodernism!

There's a difference from simply not understanding a work at all and thus not appreciating it (and thus saying its a bad work), and understanding it, and not appreciating it (but admitting, and understanding why it is a good work).

Saying that a few of the works in the showcase are terrible is just plain arrogance, and an insult to, not only the author, but the markers that labelled it to be tops.

Personally, i think 90% of postmodernist writing is a vehicle for intellectual pretentiousness (which isn't really a bad thing for ext 2. ) and a coverup for bad writing (inexcusable). That's all it is. It's the most stupid way of thinking i've ever come across. It has no ideological base, it's theories all contradict each other and in the end, it's just about being skeptical and challenging the dominant paradigms. Well people have been doing that since freakin Jesus. Intertextuality, fragmentation and all that other crap have all appeared 200 years before the 60s. We only regard postmodernism as an important way of thinking now because more people seems to be more criticial and skeptical than they were in the past. But the only reason people are adhereing to such postmodernist ways of thinking is because they know they can dope some silly english marker into thinking they've actually composed something good when in fact it's just an online blog copy and pasted in fragmented form.

 

[jhakka]

I personally agree with the above, but as I have no solid knowledge of the style of writing/thinking, I won't present it as fact.

 

[Alimoe_KG]

Fort Street Trial question for postmodernism:

"Postmodernism rules. Ok"

Discuss this question referring to etc.

- That question in all it's intellectual ambiguity and in the end, intellectual vacuousness, reflects PERFECTLY the course of postmodernism it's set for.

So in fact, it's actually the perfect question.

Too bad no one knew how to do it.

 

[666_blessings]

Thanks to all the other anti-pomo folks. "intellectual masturbation" is possibly the best euphemism for pomo i've heard in a long time.

 

[slipper]

My own bitterness aside, you have to remember that the markers are just teachers. That means that they are certainly not the authority on what is or is not good writing. Just because they think it is a good work doesn't mean that it is. For the most part it just fulfills the criteria set out by the Board of Studies.

In any case, I have not enjoyed a single Showcase short story to date because I think that most of them are intellectual masturbation, and that the author is overreaching. Unfortunately that seems to the the key to Ext 2.

Oh, and I also think that those who do Postmodernism in Extension 1 have an unfair advantage. Correct me if I'm wrong, but most Showcase works are postmodern-esque.

Agree with every point you have made.
In triplicate.