Update me on VSU (2 Viewers)

[Not-That-Bright]

What do you mean publicly ignored? The government has stated its case... the opposition has stated theirs. They both disagree - so it comes down to whoever has been given the most power.

I really don't see the issue with it, I just wish more bills could be passed through just as fast.

 

[gerhard]

At least my funds will no longer be directed towards the 'green left' and 'socialist alliance' to whom my SU has such an affinity towards. Why should we pay for the political mileage of groups that represent the interests of a minute few. I have never used a student service, and never intend to. I attend, I learn and I leave..simple

i think its called democracy.

more people vote for green/socialist candidates in elections than liberal candidates. the union is directed towards leftist causes because the voting public have said thats where they want their money to be directed.

 

[frog12986]

Also, forgive me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe I've yet to hear a convincing refutation of the comparison between union fees and taxes. Why should I pay taxes to the government for things I don't use? I have never been hospitalised with an injury, so why should I have to pay tax towards anything but the maternity unit? If I have no obligation to fund childcare places on my university campus, why should I be doing it for the rest of the workplace where the people are earning way more money? There is a whole bunch of federal services that I, as a taxpayer, cross-subsidise because they are regarded as essential - but are somehow not essential when reproduced in microcosm on a university campus. Is this really a consistent stance, or is it just another example of politicians valuing their own ideology over expert opinion (in this case, the AVCC)?

Taxation is an entirely different issue. In one way or another, whether it be direct or indirect, every individual yields some form of benefit from the governemental accruement of revenue. Obviously the issue of proportionality is at fore. Do I recieve benefits and the like that are proportional to my contribution? However, health, education, national security, road networks, economic conditions and the like, all impact upon every individuals life in one way or another and obviously varies according to the persons need...it is not as clear cut as the provision of services by student unions...

However with regard to SUF, there are many students such as myself, who never have and most likely never will gain any direct or indircet benefit or impact from the payment of SUF....

 

[Generator]

What do you mean publicly ignored? The government has stated its case... the opposition has stated theirs. They both disagree - so it comes down to whoever has been given the most power.

I really don't see the issue with it, I just wish more bills could be passed through just as fast.

The Government hasn't taken much note of the opinions expressed by those both outside of parliament and on the ground (and in the case of IR such opinions have been dismissed if they aren't supportive of the Government's stance), and that isn't just restricted to the VSU issue.

What are you trying to argue, NTB? Are you trying to say that the Government's abuses are standard fare?

Edit: Well, my question has been answered. As you already know, I do not agree with your position.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

more people vote for green/socialist candidates in elections than liberal candidates.

Are we talking about the MOST voted for green candidates vs least voted for liberals?

What are you trying to argue, NTB? Are you trying to say that the Government's abuses are standard fare?

I'm arguing that they're not abuses at all. Would have 2 weeks of circle-jerk debate about VSU really have made u happy?

There would have been debates between different members... in the media... in party rooms etc. Why the need for the type of sad rhetorical debate that occurs in the house of reps and less-so (but still alot) in the senate?

 

[Plebeian]

Are we talking about the MOST voted for green candidates vs least voted for liberals?

No, the total amount of green or socialist candidates elected is greater than the total amount of liberal candidates elected (usually by a significant margin).

However with regard to SUF, there are many students such as myself, who never have and most likely never will gain any direct or indircet benefit or impact from the payment of SUF....

That's only true if you believe a vocational, degree-factory university is as valuable to society as one which encourages the development of well-rounded graduates who are more willing and capable to contribute back to society in more diverse ways than simply getting themselves rich.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

No, the total amount of green or socialist candidates elected is greater than the total amount of liberal candidates elected (usually by a significant margin).

Are we talking federal here?

 

[ogmzergrush]

I am glad that VSU has passed, however I'm very upset at how it was passed.

The ends never justifies the means. A dirty deal late in the afternoon just before everybody can go home; more lies from our prime minister; very little debate time. I honestly thought we lived in a democracy.

Our ruling leaders are a bunch of mongs. They lie about debate, they cheat behind closed doors with that evil ultraconservative party Family First, and they waste time on pointless matters so a deal can be made.

I'm going to enjoy my free choice, but I'm going to regret how I came to get it.

A thank you goes to everybody in the Coalition and Family First, sellouts and liars alike (except Joyce who actually crossed the floor).

Edit: I forgot to thank Family First, too.

Democracy is a big word.

Political bullshit aside, I'm pleased that I won't be forced to fund a circus anymore. I regret that it's at the expense of worthwhile endeavours by student unions (Which seem to vary in rarity between Unis). I can only hope that the union improves its spending habits, and the transparency of the process, and manages to justify its existence in that way, encouraging people to support it. I will certainly resume paying these fees once I have decided that the union can in fact be trusted to spend the money in a resonsible manner. Until such a time though, there are far better things to do with it.

And matty, as a boring fuckwit who pretty much does attend just lectures and tutorials, I am happy. Thankyou for your joy at my freedom to choose when and how I spend my money, it means a lot to me

 

[Plebeian]

Are we talking federal here?

No, we're talking about student body elections. frog12986 suggested his student fees were going towards student political groups (like the Greens) supported by a "minute few". The fact that they receive more votes in the student elections indicates that they are not, in fact, supported by just a tiny minority but rather have more support than the Liberals.

 

[ogmzergrush]

No, we're talking about student body elections. frog12986 suggested his student fees were going towards student political groups (like the Greens) supported by a "minute few". The fact that they receive more votes in the student elections indicates that they are not, in fact, supported by just a tiny minority but rather have more support than the Liberals.

Or it might suggest that the only people who give a fuck enough to vote are hippies.

 

[frog12986]

That's only true if you believe a vocational, degree-factory university is as valuable to society as one which encourages the development of well-rounded graduates who are more willing and capable to contribute back to society in more diverse ways than simply getting themselves rich.

I am aware of more 'degree-factory graduates' and 'uneducated' people who more actively and readily contribute to society than those have this 'well-roundedness' to their education. My life exists outside the walls of the university; in a sporting, social and contributive sense. Assisting the community directly is a lot more useful than developing some 'well-roundedness' within the walls of the university..

 

[ogmzergrush]

If they don't vote, they have no-one but themselves to blame.

Blame wasn't really the issue though now was it, I was sure you were trying to say that the majority of people *obviously* support them, seeing as they were elected?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Well considering the attendence turn outs for student elections, I wouldn't boast about the socialist numbers. I think most students are apathetic to student politics, and this reflects how sad they are.

 

[frog12986]

Or it might suggest that the only people who give a fuck enough to vote are hippies.

Hear Hear..

If one hasn't noticed already, those proclaiming the necessity of CSU are those of the extreme-left. This may be primarilydue to the fact that it is the only arena in which they gain any form of political success; within the protective and unimportant walls of the 'leftist factories' we call universities..

 

[Generator]

I am aware of more 'degree-factory graduates' and 'uneducated' people who more actively and readily contribute to society than those have this 'well-roundedness' to their education. My life exists outside the walls of the university; in a sporting, social and contributive sense. Assisting the community directly is a lot more useful than developing some 'well-roundedness' within the walls of the university..

That's an excellent attitude. You'll go far within today's Liberal party, frog.

 

[frog12986]

That's an excellent attitude. You'll go far within today's Liberal party, frog.

Diversity is a wonderful thing..

Life experience and contribution outside the walls of the university is much more relevant than any personal development that results from the 'university life'..

 

[Generator]

Hear Hear..

If one hasn't noticed already, those proclaiming the necessity of CSU are those of the extreme-left. This may be primarilydue to the fact that it is the only arena in which they gain any form of political success; within the protective and unimportant walls of the 'leftist factories' we call universities..

One case doesn't break an argument, but when the argument has next to no substance in the first place... I would consider myself to be of the centre left, and I'm not politically active. I made next to no use of the student facilities and services, bar through purchasing the cheaper broadsheets and making use of the catering services on a semi-regular basis. I'm in favour of universal student unionism, but I am also of the opinion that the associations require reform.

This is BOS, frog, not Question time in the House of Reps (or the NSW Bear Pit). There's no need for such extreme suggestions.

Diversity is a wonderful thing..

Life experience and contribution outside the walls of the university is much more relevant than any personal development that results from the 'university life'..

As expected, you are ignoring the contribution that research makes to society, be it of a scientific, medical, social or purely theoretical nature (amongst others).

 

[gr8cat]

Ahh, so very very happy, about the only thing I've been happy with Howard doing for the last year or two.

No more subsidising private 'facilities' that I don't use - Shock horror - they might have to actually justify their existence through the profits of the people who are using them instead of acting like a compulsory charity that gets it both ways and still manages to elicit sympathy from people.

To the people who whined about how things are going to close down, (Oops that's right, plenty of stuff has already closed down even though they had already gotten their charity money for the year) I couldn't give a rat's arse. Ironic that the famous University cliche for freedom in all matters came to a grinding halt when it came to it's own financial interests. I don't use your facilities, and I don't support the majority of garbage that you protest against under the guise of a unified 'student movement'. Good luck with your facilities next year - Perhaps you and the people working for them might learn the realities of private business.

Good riddance to compulsory student fees.

 

[Collin]

Taxation is an entirely different issue. In one way or another, whether it be direct or indirect, every individual yields some form of benefit from the governemental accruement of revenue. Obviously the issue of proportionality is at fore. Do I recieve benefits and the like that are proportional to my contribution? However, health, education, national security, road networks, economic conditions and the like, all impact upon every individuals life in one way or another and obviously varies according to the persons need...it is not as clear cut as the provision of services by student unions...

However with regard to SUF, there are many students such as myself, who never have and most likely never will gain any direct or indircet benefit or impact from the payment of SUF....

I totally agree. All of us here derive some benefits from taxation revenue and like you said, it's also a matter of proportionality; that is, there are many students who do not benefit at all from the money thrown into the Union's coffers. Again, I agree 100%.

 

[Generator]

Others (suc as myself) would argue that the safety net provided by the SRC and Union is of benefit to all, despite the fact that it's largely ignored till it is actually needed (think of it as a form of insurance). However, we have covered that point before, and few of the VSU ideologues were willing to concede that perhaps there may be an element of truth to such a point of view, so I don't see much point in renewing the debate.