Update me on VSU (4 Viewers)

[MoonlightSonata]

Considering Australia is a sporting nation, with its athletes held in higher esteem than most, i would hope that uni sport is protected. I wouldn't mind paying uni fees next year if it meant the sport stayed and politics left. That way, we all win.

I would.

People go to university for the primary purpose of learning and getting a qualification. Why should I have to pay for sport? How is sport in any way related to academic learning?

The only fees that I think are justifiable for compulsory unionism are essential services fees. Sport is not an essential service.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

wtf is with the obsession with sport! I see sport as little better than playing a computer game, if you're worried about 'health' then just keep gyms subsidised...

 

[j_hakka_v2]

I would.

People go to university for the primary purpose of learning and getting a qualification. Why should I have to pay for sport? How is sport in any way related to academic learning?

The only fees that I think are justifiable for compulsory unionism are essential services fees. Sport is not an essential service.

Ah what brilliance you speak of! Who gives a damn about sport? If you want to proceed forth into the realms of mediocrity through sport, then do so - but not at the cost of other, more academically inclined students who wish to earn their degree and get into the workforce. It is a fallacy that Australia has not one world-class university because of our primordal fixation with throwing a ball around.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

How good would Australia be if we spent as much money on the more accademic hobies than on sport? Sport is a hobby, and it is taught in our schools, praised in our culture....

It's bullshit.

 

[walrusbear]

I would.

People go to university for the primary purpose of learning and getting a qualification. Why should I have to pay for sport? How is sport in any way related to academic learning?

The only fees that I think are justifiable for compulsory unionism are essential services fees. Sport is not an essential service.

sport is integral to the university as an insitution, not to mention many individuals within it.
if you want to get a degree from a university you should be expected to support its structure and pay compulsory fees, imo.
if our society begins to view tertiary education as no more than a user-paid degree factory then we are only cementing a descent into mediocrity.

 

[Sarah]

I would.

People go to university for the primary purpose of learning and getting a qualification. Why should I have to pay for sport? How is sport in any way related to academic learning?

The only fees that I think are justifiable for compulsory unionism are essential services fees. Sport is not an essential service.

It depends what these "essential services" cover.

If you're talking about food, subsidised photocopying at the union stores well I don't see any difference between that and sport

 

[j_hakka_v2]

It depends what these "essential services" cover.

If you're talking about food, subsidised photocopying at the union stores well I don't see any difference between that and sport

Well you are clearly delusional. There is a clear difference between food, subsidised photocopying for academic purposes and competing in sporting activities which quite frankly, comprise one's leisure rather than enhancing one's ability in a certain field.

Of course, universities are perhaps more than simple "degree factories" however if people want to participate in extraneous activities then they should be made to pay for it. I do not think it is acceptable that someone studying to obtain a degree should have to subsidise the leisure time of other university students who choose to engage in sport.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

It depends what these "essential services" cover.

If you're talking about food, subsidised photocopying at the union stores well I don't see any difference between that and sport

Well I think there is quite a difference. Food and photocopying are part and parcel of university necessities because one requires both in the capacity of academic learning. One cannot survive very long without food.

Sport is completely different. It is unrelated to academic learning and is simply like a hobby or some such ancillary but redundant activity wholly unconnected to study.

sport is integral to the university as an insitution, not to mention many individuals within it.

I like you walrusbear but I fervently disagree with you here. A university is an institution for higher learning with teaching and research facilities. How is sport integral to a university?

In my mind it is not -- whether sport is a good thing per se is neither here nor there. Also when you say "many", I believe the University of Sydney said that it was about 25% of university students that used the sporting facilities.

if you want to get a degree from a university you should be expected to support its structure and pay compulsory fees, imo.

Well again, why? I pay (or will pay) my university fees for my academic learning. Why do I have to pay for sport? One does not go to university for the purposes of playing sport.

 

[Sarah]

Well you are clearly delusional. There is a clear difference between food, subsidised photocopying for academic purposes and competing in sporting activities which quite frankly, comprise one's leisure rather than enhancing one's ability in a certain field.

Hmm... i've never been called delusional but then there's a first for everything!

I don't buy your justification for the difference. How about looking at it this way. Sporting activities foster team work and co-operation, they also promote a healthy lifestyle, sport is a means for people to work off some steam. All of which can be linked back to academic purposes. Look at all those sporting societies out there, they have executive positions e.g President, VP, Socials co-ordinator etc, all of which can contribute to your resume.

Of course, universities are perhaps more than simple "degree factories" however if people want to participate in extraneous activities then they should be made to pay for it. I do not think it is acceptable that someone studying to obtain a degree should have to subsidise the leisure time of other university students who choose to engage in sport.

Ok how about reversing the situation. Why should person A who brings his/her own food to uni, prints and photocopies material at home be forced to subsidise for person B who buys food at uni, prints and photocopies materials at uni? If people want to use university facilities, they should be made to pay for it

 

[MoonlightSonata]

Hmm... i've never been called delusional but then there's a first for everything!

And I've never seen a disparaging remark taken so well!

I don't buy your justification for the difference. How about looking at it this way. Sporting activities foster team work and co-operation, they also promote a healthy lifestyle, sport is a means for people to work off some steam. All of which can be linked back to academic purposes.

Only very, very tenuously. They are really in no way fundamental to tertiary study

 

[Sarah]

Well I think there is quite a difference. Food and photocopying are part and parcel of university necessities because one requires both in the capacity of academic learning. One cannot survive very long without food.

Sport is completely different. It is unrelated to academic learning and is simply like a hobby or some such ancillary but redundant activity wholly unconnected to study.I like you walrusbear but I fervently disagree with you here. A university is an institution for higher learning with teaching and research facilities. How is sport integral to a university?

See my comments above.

With food, bring it from home, buy it outside the uni. Also, at our uni, there are non-union run outlets who appear to be doing just as well as the union outlets. Students are buying non-susidised food at uni.

Photocopying, well there are places outside uni that are cheaper.

I'm not saying that sport is integral to uni, instead i was questioning the difference between sport and "essential services" in terms of how they are treated under VSU

In my mind it is not -- whether sport is a good thing per se is neither here nor there. Also when you say "many", I believe the University of Sydney said that it was about 25% of university students that used the sporting facilities.Well again, why? I pay (or will pay) my university fees for my academic learning. Why do I have to pay for sport? One does not go to university for the purposes of playing sport. [/QUOTE]

 

[walrusbear]

Well I think there is quite a difference. Food and photocopying are part and parcel of university necessities because one requires both in the capacity of academic learning. One cannot survive very long without food.

Sport is completely different. It is unrelated to academic learning and is simply like a hobby or some such ancillary but redundant activity wholly unconnected to study.I like you walrusbear but I fervently disagree with you here. A university is an institution for higher learning with teaching and research facilities. How is sport integral to a university?

In my mind it is not -- whether sport is a good thing per se is neither here nor there. Also when you say "many", I believe the University of Sydney said that it was about 25% of university students that used the sporting facilities.Well again, why? I pay (or will pay) my university fees for my academic learning. Why do I have to pay for sport? One does not go to university for the purposes of playing sport.

we disagree on our perception of what a university is and should be, i think.
for me whilst classes are its primary purpose, there is a lot more going on and it is the cultural institution which makes a university a university and not a mere job training ground. a lot of union funding supports learning that extends beyond classes - in the form of cultural enrichment. for some of us sport is included here.

unfortunately, i believe this important aspect of university is overlooked by many because it doesn't directly affect them. i have a grave doubt that these aspects will be supportable under a user-pay system.

when you get a degree from a university you also carry the associations attached to the university name and rep etc.
i look at university as an institution of itself that people are privileged to attend more than a place to buy your qualifications. which is why it is only fair people should financially support them.

EDIT:
i kinda skirted the issue of sport being extraneous.
i think it adds to the stature of the university as an institution.
for example, usyd would be a lesser uni without it's rugby team (strong history).
personally, i think sport is just another cultural product. as arguably extraneous as any other like theatre, film, music etc

 

[j_hakka_v2]

Hmm... i've never been called delusional but then there's a first for everything!

I don't buy your justification for the difference. How about looking at it this way. Sporting activities foster team work and co-operation, they also promote a healthy lifestyle, sport is a means for people to work off some steam. All of which can be linked back to academic purposes. Look at all those sporting societies out there, they have executive positions e.g President, VP, Socials co-ordinator etc, all of which can contribute to your resume.

This is just rubbish. If you want to "let off steam" that is your prerogative, but let it not be that of others who wish to diligently complete their degree. Other people have other methods of using their free time which does not financially impinge on other students. And frankly, the so-called prestigious positions of meagre sporting societies are immaterial - all they do is enhance one's primordal fixation with throwing a ball around. How banal.

Ok how about reversing the situation. Why should person A who brings his/her own food to uni, prints and photocopies material at home be forced to subsidise for person B who buys food at uni, prints and photocopies materials at uni? If people want to use university facilities, they should be made to pay for it

Well let's be pragmatic here. People who bring their own food and photocopy their own material outside the uni would hardly be worried about paying for these services to remain within the university given their importance to academic activities. Sport on the other hand is completely immaterial, and as moonlight sonata said before, it is also a redundant activity.

 

[Sarah]

And I've never seen a disparaging remark taken so well!

Lol... well considering j_hakka_v2 has only joined BOS this month, he may not be familar with past postings of mine. Hopefully i don't seem so delusional in those ones!

Only very, very tenuously. They are really in no way fundamental to tertiary study

True that was a bit of a stretch but then if students are going to uni to gain an education, well i'm stating that obvious here that many students will want a job/career after. A way for grads to differentiate themselves is through extracurricular activities (ECA) such as sport which are suppose to develop skills in leadership, team work, commuication, personal development etc. You only have to go to a well known company website e.g PWC to see that it's not just marks. I found in first yr uni I learned more applicable skills outside the classroom doing ECA rather than inside.

 

[j_hakka_v2]

Lol... well considering j_hakka_v2 has only joined BOS this month, he may not be familar with past postings of mine. Hopefully i don't seem so delusional in those ones!

Yep, sorry you do.

True that was a bit of a stretch but then if students are going to uni to gain an education, well i'm stating that obvious here that many students will want a job/career after. A way for grads to differentiate themselves is through extracurricular activities (ECA) such as sport which are suppose to develop skills in leadership, team work, commuication, personal development etc. You only have to go to a well known company website e.g PWC to see that it's not just marks. I found in first yr uni I learned more applicable skills outside the classroom doing ECA rather than inside.

Thanks for your life story. Nevertheless, sport should never be made something that overrides the purpose of a university as an academic institution. If sport was so brilliant at developing all these personal skills then it would have more than the paltry 25% participation rate at Sydney University. Clearly, the majority see sport as either useless or redundant in their lives, and thus should not have to pay for it. This is a democracy after all.

 

[Rafy]

that's totally unqualifiable
your own poor opinion of sport should mean a lack of funding for what is a cultural institution?

Perhaps they should find funding themselves? Those who want sport can go sell some fundraising freedos or something.

I refuse to subsidise their fixation for sport which IS a non-core University activity. Uni is in the end about the academics.

 

[walrusbear]

This is just rubbish. If you want to "let off steam" that is your prerogative, but let it not be that of others who wish to diligently complete their degree. Other people have other methods of using their free time which does not financially impinge on other students. And frankly, the so-called prestigious positions of meagre sporting societies are immaterial - all they do is enhance one's primordal fixation with throwing a ball around. How banal. ... Sport on the other hand is completely immaterial, and as moonlight sonata said before, it is also a redundant activity.

that's totally unqualifiable
your own poor opinion of sport should mean a lack of funding for what is a cultural institution?

 

[Generator]

I refuse to subsidise their fixation for sport which IS a non-core University activity. Uni is in the end about the academics.

No, it isn't. A univeristy is about academic pursuits and wider enrichment through co/extra-curricular pursuits.

I love this argument .

 

[j_hakka_v2]

that's totally unqualifiable
your own poor opinion of sport should mean a lack of funding for what is a cultural institution?

It is not the responsibility of the student body to fund cultural institutions compulsorarily - what a ridiculous assumption to make. Sport receives ample funding from other sources and if you wish to participate in this mindless "institution" then you should pay for it, if other's don't then they shouldn't have to. It is as simple as that. Furthermore, if you really are as obsessive about sport as you appear on this forum, then perhaps you should consider the various local clubs which offer sport as apart of their services; that way you wouldn't have to bother the rest of the student body who are studying hard.

 

[Sarah]

This is just rubbish. If you want to "let off steam" that is your prerogative, but let it not be that of others who wish to diligently complete their degree. Other people have other methods of using their free time which does not financially impinge on other students. And frankly, the so-called prestigious positions of meagre sporting societies are immaterial - all they do is enhance one's primordal fixation with throwing a ball around. How banal.

Likewise, if you want to take up a tertiary education that is also your own perogative. Most people are at uni to get a degree so they can embark on career in whatever field they're interested in. Some ppl aren't. There are people out there e.g mature age student (already established in the workforce), students who don't know what they want after graduation who enjoy the uni lifestyle of clubs and societies. Again i'm going to reverse the agrument here and at the risk of being called "delusional" or my thoughts being described as "banal" suggest that students who focus more on non-academic life have their finances impinged upon students who choose to be more academic.

I'm not saying that we should have USU or VSU, all i'm saying is that differentiating between "essential services" and sport is questionable as it can be argued that sport is an essential service or that food isn't an essential service



Well let's be pragmatic here. People who bring their own food and photocopy their own material outside the uni would hardly be worried about paying for these services to remain within the university given their importance to academic activities. Sport on the other hand is completely immaterial, and as moonlight sonata said before, it is also a redundant activity. [/QUOTE]