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Update me on VSU (1 Viewer)

Skillo

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Xayma said:
by forcing all including those who can not afford it and don't go play rugby on the well watered lawns to pay.
Well, its not like that at all unis Xayma. Uni of Melb union does a shit load for its students, they have their own theatre for instance and that will go probably because of VSU...and there goes a crap load of opportunities for their 9000 odd arts students. Including tonnes for career opportunities for me.

Union fees aren't used for crap at all unis. Just yours :p
 
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Skillo said:
Well, its not like that at all unis Xayma. Uni of Melb union does a shit load for its students, they have their own theatre for instance and that will go probably because of VSU...and there goes a crap load of opportunities for their 9000 odd arts students. Including tonnes for career opportunities for me.

Union fees aren't used for crap at all unis. Just yours :p
The point still stands that a lot of people, many who can't really afford it, have other things which the money would be better spent on. A theatre might be a fantastic facility for some, but if it's completely useless to others, should they really be forced to help pay for it, despite the fact that they have other expenses which the money could better be used to cover?
 
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withoutaface

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Skillo said:
Well, its not like that at all unis Xayma. Uni of Melb union does a shit load for its students, they have their own theatre for instance and that will go probably because of VSU...and there goes a crap load of opportunities for their 9000 odd arts students. Including tonnes for career opportunities for me.

Union fees aren't used for crap at all unis. Just yours :p
Spread the cost across the students that are gaining an advantage from the theatre then. Or better yet, run shows and charge for tickets.
 

SashatheMan

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we have a theater in UTS, never been inside , prob never will go. my fees pay for it, but i dont use it.
 

Xayma

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Skillo said:
Well, its not like that at all unis Xayma. Uni of Melb union does a shit load for its students, they have their own theatre for instance and that will go probably because of VSU...and there goes a crap load of opportunities for their 9000 odd arts students. Including tonnes for career opportunities for me.

Union fees aren't used for crap at all unis. Just yours :p
Oh I still don't believe others should pay for that, bar those who use it. But I would be even more annoyed if sports is the only thing kept (as Barnaby Joyce wants) if sports is compulsory then I expect the services I gain some benefits from to be compulsory as well. (This isn't an all or nothing approach I wouldn't mind some of the SRC functions being compulorsy but the net compulsory cost should be under $50 a year.)

With 9000 odd art students they shouldn't have to pay much more then they do now.
 

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Two different mindsets that cannot grasp/accept the points that the other is forever raising. What a debate.
 

White Rabbit

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CSU seems to run differently to other Unis, namley the bigger Sydney Unis. We pay $34 per subject - so that $136 a semester, which is more than reasonable considering what we get out of it - subsidised child care (which is rather important I've noticed in my course for my peers), UniBar nights, academic suport, student paper, CSUSAB jobs, gigs like Thirsty Merc, Jebediah and Eskimo Joe, Pub Runs (all residences and downtowners) the Balls held throughout the year, the massive sports clibs throughout the Uni, Uni Games, financial support, counselling, saftey bus which runs between Campus, downtown and off campus residences (MTG) after 5 on Thursday, Friday and Saturday nights, subsidised food in dinning hall, rent help and advice for all downtowners - the list of facilities goes on, and I've taken advantage of most services.

For regional Universities, the Student Union does more than create a community and way of life - it aids students in moving into regional centres, many of which would be unable to do so if it didn't exist. This is partly why some nationals are against VSU. Using Bathurst as an example - people come to CSU for many reasons, but the social life in unsurpassed by city Unis - Sydney and New South, you can go through your degree and never really know anyone - I know just about all 1st year nurses, and then some - whereas CSU you can walk from the CSUSAB building to the library and greet every second person. CSU is friendly, relaxed and easy going - Uni just wouldn't be Uni with friday mornings on the library lawn (hung over) and still in your jammie pants, and nobody thinking it was odd. If theres someone you don't know at CSU, you've got a mate who does, and we have CSUSAB to thank - for an awesome O-week, for Bar nights, for gigs, for sports and any other function that brings the students together.

Furthermore, without the support of CSUSAB, many students from cities would choose to remain in Sydney, Newcastle or Wollongong, while students from remote and rural areas would not have the option to study at Uni because the support needed to move half way across the state would not exist. If CSU Bathurst was to loose CSUSAB that'd loose part of what made it a great Uni, and in the process loose a fair percentage of potential and current students. The social life and sense of community would essentially be lost, students would simply decide to either remain in urban centres for University, or do tertiary study via DE (which would be marvelous without the student unions support, I'm sure..) and thus towns such as Bathurst, Orange, Armidale and Lismore, which dervive a fair share of it's income from Uni students who use the towns facilities. Bathurst industry, esspecially pubs, supermarkets, property etc stand to loose millions if VSU is passed, with a decline in student numbers - which is now at 3000 (pretty much a town to itself) - Bathurst City will loose income, and it's something locals are worried about. Yes, they have Ag and other industry, but the fact remains, the Uni provides a substantial ammount of income for the town, and locals of Bathurst are worried that should VSU be passed and students elect others Unis or to study through DE, that the town itself stands to loose. The same is felt across other 'Uni Towns' like Lismore and Armidale. Thats partly why the Nationals are against it, because their electorate is also against it - they recognise the postitives of VSU for their regions.

Like I said however, Student Unionism is vastly different for regional students than it is for metropolitian Unis.
 

withoutaface

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anti-mathmite said:
So... Why should someone be compelled to join an organisation that they dont want to join, no matter how good it is?
That's the crux of the argument, yes.
 

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withoutaface said:
That's the crux of the argument, yes.
One side claims that freedom of choice and self interest should reign, whereas the other claims that the interests of all are served by all contributing to the associations, whether one makes use of the services or not.

That's about it, anti-mathmite.
 

Not-That-Bright

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Without union fees there doesn't seem to be that much which keeps uni knitted together. With sparring colleges, heaps of different ages/groups and lifestyles, the union was the one thing that bound everyone together.
Hows bout... the fact that you're all going to university to get a degree? That's a permeated factor is it not?

the interests of all are served by all contributing to the associations, whether one makes use of the services or not.
I feel that the interest of all is served when we have choice.
 

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Not-That-Bright said:
I feel that the interest of all is served when we have choice.
And in a case such as this, I don't :p.
 

White Rabbit

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Not-That-Bright said:
Hows bout... the fact that you're all going to university to get a degree? That's a permeated factor is it not?


I feel that the interest of all is served when we have choice.
If all you're getting out of University is a degree, then I really feel sorry for you.
 

Meldrum

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What about all the computers that you other people will never use? What about their power? Their software? Huh? HUH?!

Typical greed.
 

SashatheMan

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White Rabbit said:
If all you're getting out of University is a degree, then I really feel sorry for you.
i am going to uni to only get a degree. doesnt matter to me. sure i try to have a social life there aswell, but i just dont use any of unis services.
 

Skillo

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Ho humm.

Maybe a level system should be introduced. Where you can choose to subscribe to services and get a discount card...then those who don't subscribe get to pay full price...

It's a debate that will never end...even if VSU does come in.
 

leetom

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Xayma said:
Oh I still don't believe others should pay for that, bar those who use it. But I would be even more annoyed if sports is the only thing kept (as Barnaby Joyce wants) if sports is compulsory then I expect the services I gain some benefits from to be compulsory as well. (This isn't an all or nothing approach I wouldn't mind some of the SRC functions being compulorsy but the net compulsory cost should be under $50 a year.)

With 9000 odd art students they shouldn't have to pay much more then they do now.
Surely Xayma, out of conern for the preservation and continuity of national culture, you would be prepared to fund the theatre?
 

walrusbear

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is there anything in the proposed VSU policy that will prevent universities from punishing students in any way that don't join the student unions?

i hope not, hopefully universities can step in and make sure people join by threats if need be
 

Phanatical

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Think the fact is that VSU is almost certainly going to happen. It might not, but it probably will. And the responsibility now for student leaders such as myself is not to continue protesting what is obviously a popular legislation among Most students, but to create solutions that would continue to provide a significant student service without the guaranteed income of a USU environment.
 

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