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UNSW imposes minimum entry score of 80+ ATAR (4 Viewers)

someth1ng

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Sports is a huge thing for US uni's. If you're the captain of a sports team, you do extensive sports stuff ivy leagues loves it. Ivy leagues are a hit or miss, there's no one thing that'd make them take you. I had a girlfriend who got accepted into columbia, compared to her brother who got rejected by every ivy school (he went to UC berkeley, still a smart cookie) because he had very little extracurricular but perfect marks (49 IB 2380 SAT score, shits fucking insane), while she had a 4.0 GPA and 2100 SAT score. Difference is she has a lot of extracurricular stuff in model UN and student council.

You don't need interviews for lowerband applicants, you need them for the harder degrees like law and medicine, or degrees with higher attrition rates.
wut.

I think all lower-band applicants should need interviews - a large portion of those lower-band students are the ones that didn't work as hard and they need to stand out to show that they're serious about their studies and their future.
 

someth1ng

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I think it's hard for universities to do that kind of thing unless they bypass UAC, the only examples I know of which do that to some extent are medicine (obviously), coop scholarships and FEAS.

One possiblity would be removing subject bonus points completely, standardising EAS across all universities and then having 10 or maybe even 20 bonus points awarded on the basis of an interview and/or personal statement. 20 bonus points sounds ridiculous but with the current bonus points systems being removed cut offs would rise a lot, and under that hypothetical system it would be difficult to cap out with the bonus points except for amazing applicants. It would probably have to be regulated or conducted by an external entity for it to be effective though.


Didn't plan for that, did you? *ba dum tss*
Actually, a lot of them wouldn't change at all because there are still vacancies in many of them (probably 50% of courses or so). As for the others, I don't think it'd be dramatic as you think but I think that it's good that cut-offs go up. Don't forget, everyone gets bonuses - not just the ones at the bottom.
 

isildurrrr1

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wut.

I think all lower-band applicants should need interviews - a large portion of those lower-band students are the ones that didn't work as hard and they need to stand out to show that they're serious about their studies and their future.
It costs a ton of time and money to interview all lower band applicants. Interviews only exist for schools with a very low acceptance rate (eg ivy's/oxbridge) where only 5-10% of applicants are accepted. Remember those schools have TONS of academically qualified students, they have the luxury to pick and choose the cream of the crop. If the lower band students don't qualify just give them an offer to foundation studies. NYU does the same thing with their "liberal arts" program where they send students to europe or abu dabi for a year and then transfer back into the main campus if their marks are good enough.
 

LoveHateSchool

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I know someone who got an offer to UPenn, he does a lot of swimming but I didn't really hear much else out of the ordinary from what he has told me.

I want placements to be limited so that there's only just enough for those that actually put effort in and want to achieve. Let those guys in and do your best to educate them. A mix between a personal statement/CV, an interview (for lower-end applicants) and ATAR would be good.
You know I've always had a little soft spot for UPenn and none of the other more popular ivys ever made me a little interested :p

I think it's hard for universities to do that kind of thing unless they bypass UAC, the only examples I know of which do that to some extent are medicine (obviously), coop scholarships and FEAS.

One possiblity would be removing subject bonus points completely, standardising EAS across all universities and then having 10 or maybe even 20 bonus points awarded on the basis of an interview and/or personal statement. 20 bonus points sounds ridiculous but with the current bonus points systems being removed cut offs would rise a lot, and under that hypothetical system it would be difficult to cap out with the bonus points except for amazing applicants. It would probably have to be regulated or conducted by an external entity for it to be effective though.


Didn't plan for that, did you? *ba dum tss*
Seeing the type of questions they ask at scholarship interviews and stuff, they would be great differentiators for the lower band applicants if it was unfeasible to interview everyone, (have a clearly in criteria and than an eligible for further consideration thing kinda like flexi-entry perhaps?)

The EAS system is a bit skewed though, I know people who get EAS for flimsy reasons who are on the same consideration as people who went through severe, severe hardship like losing a sibling their HSC year.
 

Emily Howard

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I agree with EAS

divorce is considered up dere

i had a friend whose parent got rly ill, nearly died, dere EAS was knocked back by heaps of unis whereas another friends parents finalized their divorce afta livin apart for 5 years each wit nu partners, dere son got EAS
 

brent012

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Don't forget, everyone gets bonuses - not just the ones at the bottom.
Eaxctly, at the moment they are just artificially increasing cut offs. Cut offs would drop across the board yet make almost no difference initially if only subject bonus points were removed. But if EAS and other bonus point schemes (AAA) were either replaced or regulated they would be pushed up a little.
 

enoilgam

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I think all lower-band applicants should need interviews - a large portion of those lower-band students are the ones that didn't work as hard and they need to stand out to show that they're serious about their studies and their future.
At Notre Dame, they do interviews for all degrees which I think are aimed at identifying those who underperform but have the potential to do well at uni. However, I get the distinct feeling that they are just a formality.
 

kaz1

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This is stupid, ATAR isn't a good indicator of how one will perform in uni. being Elitist for the sake of being elitist, fuck I hate fred hilmer
 

kaz1

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Firstly, let me ask you, how many graduates are unemployed or can only find casual or part-time employment?

Have a look here:http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/Lookup/4102.0Chapter6002008
PEOPLE AGED 25-64 YEARS: HIGHEST NON-SCHOOL QUALIFICATION shows that there's a pretty constant amount of diplomas and advanced diplomas but Bachelors degrees are getting more and more common. If there are quite a lot of unemployed graduates, I think there's a problem.
Doesn't say what degree they did, I would say the bulk of those that are unemployed did useless Arts degrees that have no relevant jobs in the workforce
If my counting is correct, in the final exam, there were 242 students that passed out of 246 students (I counted this last time too and got the same number). That's less than 2% that failed the final exam.

It's unlikely that much more than that failed because of quizzes/lab. Realistically, a maximum, I would say would be around 3-4%.



Maybe I did make a counting error but that's not too relevant.
It's a first year Chemistry 1A course, the cohort would be very large so they can't fail a shitload of people or there will be too many people doing the course in the subsequent year, Chemistry 1A is really easy, the high non-failure rate is not surprising, it's also a first year course which are generally easy. The harder courses in later courses have a lot higher failure rates and the shit students usually give up at that point. Also this is a UNSW thread not a USYD thread and we don't have such mediocre standards in our subjects.
 

isildurrrr1

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It depends what you do in Arts and what field you go into. Asian/European/IR/Politics usually end up working for public service. Anthropology on the other hand... Well good luck. It also depends on your marks too. Even if you have a law degree and you BARELY scraped by means you're probably not going to get a high speed low drag law job anytime soon. What people forget is that your grades at uni DO MATTTER, especially for setting your foot in the door on your first job.
 

someth1ng

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@kaz1, UNSW and USyd are more or less the same. I doubt there is much difference between the UNSW equivalent of first year chemistry. Saying that USyd has mediocre standards is pretty much saying all Go8 unis have mediocre standards. Also, you have no stats to back up what you say.

Last thing is that in CHEM1901, they're not failing a shut load - it's 4 people!

As for the first one (I know I'm working backwards), even if it is Arts degrees, then maybe we should limit the number if Arts students accepted.
 

isildurrrr1

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As for the first one (I know I'm working backwards), even if it is Arts degrees, then maybe we should limit the number if Arts students accepted.
then you just defeated the whole point of universities. humanities has always been the core focus of universities. So what if someone wants to study English lit or History if they love it? Sure they might not get a job in their field (70% of uni students don't anyway). I highly doubt its "lol bachelor of attendance" and employers throw away their application, it's more to do with what marks they got during uni. There's a lot of people who are happy with just credits and passes. Besides, economy is not so great for new graduates anyway. Funny thing is Arts is currently "in demand" because there aren't that many taking them (look at the HECS cost).
 

Emily Howard

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u guys r all a bunch of naive fuckwits who havnt lived in da real world

doesnt matter wat ur degree is u can still use it to get a decent job, dat goes to u fuckwits complainin bout arts students, u dnt hav to get jobs in yer field

heaps of jobs nowdays require bachelor degree as minimum qualification
 

Emily Howard

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also decreasin the amount of uni places will increase welfare n unemployed

incase u havnt noticed da job climate has been shit for a long time
 

Emily Howard

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yer basically gonna end up wit a bunch of 20 something year olds livin with dere rents, not contributin finanically cos dey dnt qualify fo newstart allowance if dey hav more den 5k in liquid assests

heaps of places prefer younger casuals cos cheaper so dey gona be in shit situation
 

Emily Howard

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*not considered independent till 22 so cnt get YA with parents who both work pretty much
 

LoveHateSchool

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I agree with EAS

divorce is considered up dere

i had a friend whose parent got rly ill, nearly died, dere EAS was knocked back by heaps of unis whereas another friends parents finalized their divorce afta livin apart for 5 years each wit nu partners, dere son got EAS
Yeah that's what I mean about EAS having flaws in the system.

I hate the whole arts degrees=unemployment/uselessness thing. Arts degree by nature are very broad, the employment people go into post one or with further study is humungous. Just because you can't see the exact projectile of someone studying greek or studying literature, doesn't mean that skills aren't taught through the undergrad that people than use in employment, even if it's not explicitly related to what they studied.
 

enoilgam

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I agree with EAS

divorce is considered up dere

i had a friend whose parent got rly ill, nearly died, dere EAS was knocked back by heaps of unis whereas another friends parents finalized their divorce afta livin apart for 5 years each wit nu partners, dere son got EAS
It's also a common problem with special provisions/considerations as well - those who know how to play the system can get away with some pretty questionable stuff. On the other hand, I know a few people with legitimate problems who didnt get anything because they didnt know how the system worked.

Back onto degrees though, I've definitely come to the realisation lately that they often provide people with a skill set as opposed to a defined career path. A lot of graduate jobs these days just ask for an undergrad degree as the educational requirement as opposed to a specific degree. So I definitely think the whole "Arts degrees = Centrelink" thing doesnt really reflect reality.
 
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