Uni Advice - UOW or move to Usyd? (2 Viewers)

[erawamai]

Yeah, I agree...the reason why Sydney U even has such a wide and successful alumni in the first place is because its old-ness (hence the proliferation of Hogwarts'-like buildings) No one else can compete cos they weren't even around when Sydney Uni was established!

None of those buildings actually have law lectures in them.

 

[charlie_charlie]

Someone should ask that then, when they go up to enrol in law.

 

[BillytheFIsh]

what's POA?

Post admission experience.

Lets be generous and say you were a REALLY lucky 1st year solicitor in a top-tier and were getting $52000 +super. That's $1000/wk.

You'd be working a minimum of 50 hours which is $20/hour gross. Take out tax and you'll looking at something like 15/hour net. Remember, we're being really generous here...

Glad your doing law now people?

EDIT: Oh... and if you have a HECS debt... remember to take that out too!

write us a thread billy, stop being so lazzzy

Oh but I AM lazy... and I haven't done my college of law reading for this week and have to write a statement of claim... Why didn't someone tell me that I'd actually have to do something for this legal prac course?

 

[Frigid]

but i get $15/h post tax like now. and i can get more if i tutor. without a degree. -_-"

moral of story: do not do law for the money. no money to be had for at least 5-10 years.

alright, frigey's gonna go HK. in the meantime, if anyone's feeling generous (it is xmas after all), i just want this.

 

[jaihson]

Hey, thanks heaps for your discussion everyone. I'm thinking of staying here and doing law at wollongong. I figure if i move to sydney im going to have to work alot more than if i stayed here. plus if the only difference between sydney and wollongong is prestige, then i guess the sensible option could be to stay here for first year and if im not happy with the course then apply for transfer to sydney.
lol anyway ill probably change my mind yet again tomorrow when i wake up...

 

[ManlyChief]

None of those buildings actually have law lectures in them.

Actually I had all my Federal Constitutional Law, Contracts and LLJ classes in the main Quad building.

I think: commute to Sydney. Cheap since you stay at home and you can do your law readings on the express train from the Gong. Seriously.

 

[erawamai]

Actually I had all my Federal Constitutional Law, Contracts and LLJ classes in the main Quad building.

I hope you enjoyed ther hard benches! *Grumbles*.

I actually read somehwere that they werre going to use the footbridge theatre for law lectures or classes or something.

 

[neo o]

Hey, thanks heaps for your discussion everyone. I'm thinking of staying here and doing law at wollongong. I figure if i move to sydney im going to have to work alot more than if i stayed here. plus if the only difference between sydney and wollongong is prestige, then i guess the sensible option could be to stay here for first year and if im not happy with the course then apply for transfer to sydney.
lol anyway ill probably change my mind yet again tomorrow when i wake up...

That's like saying that the only difference between Harvard Law and Sydney Law is prestige. Quite a few people seem desperate to make empty assumptions like, "ZOMG ONLY DIFFERENCE IS PRESTIGE" or base their advice upon one very questionable teaching quality survery. ACCORDING TO THE POLL THAT SO MANY PEOPLE ARE BASING THEIR ADVICE UPON, THE MARITIME COLLEGE OF HOBART IS THE SECOND BEST UNIVERSITY IN THE COUNTRY. This thread is similar to so many threads that I've seen in the UWS forum. "Should i go to UWS"?. "OH YEAH SURE BEST UNIVERSITY IN THE WORLD NOBODY CARES THAT IT'S UWS SERIOUSLY WE PROMISE".

I'm not going to argue that the UoW and Sydney don't have the same basic law course, because If I did I'd be wrong. Law courses are pretty much homogenous across the board. However, a bigger university like Sydney would attract better lecturers and have better facilities than a regional university. They're getting a new law faculty in a few years. The people that you'll be studying with will also be brighter across the board. You'll be able to experience city living. I wouldn't be surprised if Usyd offered a broader range of electives, nor would I be suprised if Usyd had more links with awesome universities overseas for exchange.

Go to the open days before you make your final decision. If you get Centrelink, any money that you work for will be spent on booze, transport and funtainment, Centrelink covers the rest. If you don't it's very easy to support yourself either way. Also, you may enjoy living in a capital city! You'll have to work in Sydney, but didn't you also have to work to get 99.8? You've got the marks, so why not go to one of the better law schools in the country as opposed to a regional university?

 

[santaslayer]

That's like saying that the only difference between Harvard Law and Sydney Law is prestige. Quite a few people seem desperate to make empty assumptions like, "ZOMG ONLY DIFFERENCE IS PRESTIGE" or base their advice upon one very questionable teaching quality survery. ACCORDING TO THE POLL THAT SO MANY PEOPLE ARE BASING THEIR ADVICE UPON, THE MARITIME COLLEGE OF HOBART IS THE SECOND BEST UNIVERSITY IN THE COUNTRY. This thread is similar to so many threads that I've seen in the UWS forum. "Should i go to UWS"?. "OH YEAH SURE BEST UNIVERSITY IN THE WORLD NOBODY CARES THAT IT'S UWS SERIOUSLY WE PROMISE".

I'm not going to argue that the UoW and Sydney don't have the same basic law course, because If I did I'd be wrong. Law courses are pretty much homogenous across the board. However, a bigger university like Sydney would attract better lecturers and have better facilities than a regional university. They're getting a new law faculty in a few years. The people that you'll be studying with will also be brighter across the board. You'll be able to experience city living. I wouldn't be surprised if Usyd offered a broader range of electives, nor would I be suprised if Usyd had more links with awesome universities overseas for exchange.

Go to the open days before you make your final decision. If you get Centrelink, any money that you work for will be spent on booze, transport and funtainment, Centrelink covers the rest. If you don't it's very easy to support yourself either way. Also, you may enjoy living in a capital city! You'll have to work in Sydney, but didn't you also have to work to get 99.8? You've got the marks, so why not go to one of the better law schools in the country as opposed to a regional university?

How, may I ask, is USYD better?

USYD had an article out by their own Law Society criticising its lack of facilities, namely, the buildings themselves. (I can't find the fucker, damn. )

What your assuming is that jaihson cannot excel in whatever he wants to do because everyone who is successful has had the immense help of their universitiy's prestige. Everyone else is doomed because they don't have prestigous univerisites behind their arses? Or have I misunderstood?

The second thing I must bring forward is the assumption that USYD are smarter in general. Two points:

1) The UAI is not an indication of brightness. It is an indication of the ready-ness for tertiary study. Even then, it is widely acknowledged that a UAI of 80.00 is sufficent for law. A UAI does not indicate your sucess with ONE particular degree because the HSC examines you on a wide VARIETY of subjects and tests your ability on different areas which you may not be as compotet with. However, you may not need those skills anyway.


If however, I take your assumpttion that UAI=Brightness, then:

2) The Cutoff is an indication of the person who got into that course with the lowest UAI. It does not clearly indicate the amount of people who got near the low end (91.00) or the top end (100.00). Even then, you are failing to recognise the fact that there are international and FULLFEE places.

You are also comparing UWS with UoW. I would like to make a distinction in the fact that UWS has been proven to have various internal and external problems, some of which are beyond their control. Anyone that tells you that UWS is the best school for law is just blatantly lying. Anyone who believes in such lies should find a nice, solid, brick wall.

On a side note, lecturers travel great distances to other universites for teaching. The lecturer you may have for a Criminal Law subject in one year may be my teacher in the following. Potraying the idea of attracting 'better' academics/lecturers is false.

People like to criticise certain surveys because it isn't their university in the top ranking. They tend to dismiss such research papers and purport to brand them questionable when they cannot create a flaw-free survey. It shouldn't be your position to slam a survey if you cannot justify with a new one.

Electives can be studied at other universities as well. It isn't that difficult, if you are THAT desprate. Go to UWS if you want the best Space Law elective.

Conclusion: Do what you want jaihson.

 

[neo o]

What your assuming is that jaihson cannot excel in whatever he wants to do because everyone who is successful has had the immense help of their universitiy's prestige. Everyone else is doomed because they don't have prestigous univerisites behind their arses? Or have I misunderstood?

I think you have, because I remember quite clearly saying

Quite a few people seem desperate to make empty assumptions like, "ZOMG ONLY DIFFERENCE IS PRESTIGE"

1) The UAI is not an indication of brightness. It is an indication of the ready-ness for tertiary study. Even then, it is widely acknowledged that a UAI of 80.00 is sufficent for law. A UAI does not indicate your sucess with ONE particular degree because the HSC examines you on a wide VARIETY of subjects and tests your ability on different areas which you may not be as compotet with. However, you may not need those skills anyway.

2) The Cutoff is an indication of the person who got into that course with the lowest UAI. It does not clearly indicate the amount of people who got near the low end (91.00) or the top end (100.00). Even then, you are failing to recognise the fact that there are international and FULLFEE places.

I contend that a grade of students, the majority of which got over 99.6 would on the whole be brighter than a cohort of students who on the whole got around 88-93.

People like to criticise certain surveys because it isn't their university in the top ranking. They tend to dismiss such research papers and purport to brand them questionable when they cannot create a flaw-free survey. It shouldn't be your position to slam a survey if you cannot justify with a new one.

My university was the highest Go8 at around 4th.

 

[santaslayer]

I think you have, because I remember quite clearly saying
Quite a few people seem desperate to make empty assumptions like, "ZOMG ONLY DIFFERENCE IS PRESTIGE"

You're taking things to the extreme if you highlight the difference between Harvard and USYD. UoW and USYD however, are far from extreme.

If however, you do believe that there are other factors that differentiate universities, then hasn't UoW proven to be an institution that should be credited with distinction-ess? There is nothing other than prestige, IMO, which makes USYD look better. UoW has been awarded numerous awads which is no less worthy than the ones that USYD recieves.
UNSW is slowly gaining popularity, but does that really mean their law faculty (undergraduate wise) is getting better?

I contend that a grade of students, the majority of which got over 99.6 would on the whole be brighter than a cohort of students who on the whole got around 88-93.

But the UAI does not indicate successfulness in ONE particular degree. It hasn't been justified that 99'ers are 'smarter'? I mean, in what sense? Uni is more about application rather than memorising shitloads of nothing. School focussed primarily on memory. Application was only really evident in certain subjects like maths. The whole criteria for gaining marks in school is absoloutely different and distinct from that of university.

My university was the highest Go8 at around 4th.

Go8 is only really applicable to post undergraduate degrees. Tell me that when you do further study. The recent research paper though, was based primarily on undergraduate degrees.


Thank you for selecting and picking a mere few points which were raised when there were a thousand other issues raised.

Anyway, good day.

 

[stacie_dink]

what are you combining with jaihson? (sorry if u already said, cbf reading thru the whole thread)

if you're combining with arts/economics/eco soc sci/commerce you will probably only have to come in 3/4 days a week anyway.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

But the UAI does not indicate successfulness in ONE particular degree. It hasn't been justified that 99'ers are 'smarter'? I mean, in what sense? Uni is more about application rather than memorising shitloads of nothing. School focussed primarily on memory. Application was only really evident in certain subjects like maths. The whole criteria for gaining marks in school is absoloutely different and distinct from that of university.

He was just explaining that chances are that on average the 99 group would be smarter than the 88 group... this seems fairly reasonable unless you believe the HSC is a test that in no-way determines your ability.

People like to criticise certain surveys because it isn't their university in the top ranking. They tend to dismiss such research papers and purport to brand them questionable when they cannot create a flaw-free survey. It shouldn't be your position to slam a survey if you cannot justify with a new one.

I believe the survey you are talking about was used to determine funding, with those whom do not have such great teaching getting more funding than those towards the top.... You don't see any possible motives for wanting to be low in these rankings?

Santaslayer, why is Harvard law better than UOW law?

 

[neo o]

You're taking things to the extreme if you highlight the difference between Harvard and USYD. UoW and USYD however, are far from extreme.

Really, why?

If however, you do believe that there are other factors that differentiate universities, then hasn't UoW proven to be an institution that should be credited with distinction-ess? There is nothing other than prestige, IMO, which makes USYD look better. UoW has been awarded numerous awads which is no less worthy than the ones that USYD recieves.
UNSW is slowly gaining popularity, but does that really mean their law faculty (undergraduate wise) is getting better?

WOW, AWARDS. AWARDS ARE REALLY INDICITIVE OF THE QUALITY OF A UNIVERSITY. Since you brought this point up, how many Nobel prizes have gong lecturers won, seriously (again, while I know that these don't indicate the teaching quality at all in undergrad law, you opened the door)? Maybe you'd like to list these awards?

But the UAI does not indicate successfulness in ONE particular degree. It hasn't been justified that 99'ers are 'smarter'? I mean, in what sense? Uni is more about application rather than memorising shitloads of nothing. School focussed primarily on memory. Application was only really evident in certain subjects like maths. The whole criteria for gaining marks in school is absoloutely different and distinct from that of university.

Spin it however you want, in general 100 people who scored 99.6 will be more driven and/or brighter than 100 people who scored 90.

Go8 is only really applicable to post undergraduate degrees. Tell me that when you do further study. The recent research paper though, was based primarily on undergraduate degrees.

I don't give a shit where my university ranks. Unlike you I feel no need to assess and justify the quality of my university from one survey. I don't need a survey to make me confidant of the quality of my university. You tried to play the, "YOURE SO JEALOUS BECAUSE YOUR UNIVERSITY DIDN'T SCORE HIGHLY CARD". I merely said that my university was actually ranked pretty damn high on that survey.

Thank you for selecting and picking a mere few points which were raised when there were a thousand other issues raised.

Fair is fair, you only bothered to reply to half of mine. You didn't reply to my points about exchange opportunities and city living. Your response to my point about lecturers was piss weak and consisted of, "WELL SOME OF THEM MAY TRAVEL TO THE GONG". Do you honestly think that your library resources are up to the standard of the library of the University of Sydney, seriously? And do you seriously think that UoW has more money to splash around to attract better teachers than a major metropolitan university? Get real.

The choice between Usyd and the gong is not a choice as to what the better degree is, but whether its worth sacrificing the quality of ones education so that it's easier for that person to mooch off their parents and get a scholarship.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

The choice between Usyd and the gong is not a choice as to what the better degree is, but whether its worth sacrificing the quality of ones education so that it's easier for that person to mooch off their parents and get a scholarship.

So true

The following are reasons to pick USyd over UOW for law;

- There is an old boys club in law.
- You will have access to the most extensive library in the southern hemisphere, and I'm sure their internet collections are vast also.
- You will get more qualified lecturers/tutors - however this can sometimes be bad as they're more busy.
- You will get more guest lecturers, international speakers etc....
- The USyd law course has been being worked on for about 100 years, they have a proven success record with their model of teaching.
- USyd gets more funding than UOW per student.
- USyd attracts brighter people, that will both challenge you, and help provide you with added knowledge in class. In alot of law classes the quality of your fellow students will affect your studies.
- USyd has better exchange programs, with better universities.
- more to be added...

The truth is when it comes down to the quality of your degree, the only universities I'd put up against USyd would be UMelb, UNSW, UWA and maybe Monash. I might be wrong, but this is just from what I have gathered from a bit of my own research...

UOW, UNCLE, UWS, etc are all regional universities. The purpose of them is to facilitate learning for people in those regions, not to compete with the likes of USyd.

 

[Frigid]

guys... these dick-measuring contests usually end in tears...

if you are capable and work hard, you'll find success anywhere. likewise if you're a lazy bum, you'll find failure anywhere.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Considering it's only santaslayer who is talking up his own university, i don't know how it's a dick-measuring contest.... Who the hell measures other people's dicks?

 

[Frigid]

Who the hell measures other people's dicks?

it's an expression silly...

besides, i think you can really do well anywhere... some of the brightest graduates i've met come from UWS, incidentally.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Of course you can do really well anywhere.

 

[erawamai]

guys... these dick-measuring contests usually end in tears...

Not if you have the bigger dick.