twilight series (2 Viewers)

[Sammiesunshine]

sorry and just explain how the ideas are trite? since you keep bringing that one up.. you are in a thread predominantly filled with people who actually like this series and who are you to criticise what people are to like? You have your opinion so let others have theres!

On another note HOW are people getting praise for fanfics WOW people give them comments but what other recognition are they getting? i would love to know.

But honestly though if the writing is your baby ok i get you may be pissed but like any good parent you are supposed to let your child out into the world to flourish and if you want a book published the fact is you have to accept that fan fic may happen. So maybe as a "parent" you should be a little more open minded for crying out loud!

Lastly on that point, fan fic is just like when you are a child and you have a favourite character in a book and make up special adventures for them in your head which most kids do. You can't honestly say you never thought about a character you loved travelling to a new exciting place or meeting new characters. I mean as a teen i still do it I think wow i'm like this character and imagine different situations or plots etc, only difference with fan fic is that they wrote there imaginings.
as far as things go it's pretty harmless and you sure are getting worked up about it.

 

[Tulipa]

sorry and just explain how the ideas are trite? since you keep bringing that one up.. you are in a thread predominantly filled with people who actually like this series and who are you to criticise what people are to like? You have your opinion so let others have theres!

On another note HOW are people getting praise for fanfics WOW people give them comments but what other recognition are they getting? i would love to know.

But honestly though if the writing is your baby ok i get you may be pissed but like any good parent you are supposed to let your child out into the world to flourish and if you want a book published the fact is you have to accept that fan fic may happen. So maybe as a "parent" you should be a little more open minded for crying out loud!

Lastly on that point, fan fic is just like when you are a child and you have a favourite character in a book and make up special adventures for them in your head which most kids do. You can't honestly say you never thought about a character you loved travelling to a new exciting place or meeting new characters. I mean as a teen i still do it I think wow i'm like this character and imagine different situations or plots etc, only difference with fan fic is that they wrote there imaginings.
as far as things go it's pretty harmless and you sure are getting worked up about it.

"trite" = banal: repeated too often; overfamiliar through overuse.

The ideas of the book are exactly that.

As I said in my above post.

What I'm saying is to stop obsessing over bad literature and start looking for better stuff. Even if this is your guilty pleasure acknowledge it as such and don't hold it up as an example of quality storytelling.

Twilight is not quality storytelling.

And the fanfic thing? I'm always going to think it's pretty terrible because I know how much work goes into creating a novel. You, on the other hand, are entitled to believe it's a valid medium. Even if you're wrong

 

[Conspiracy?]

I'm with you on this Tulipa.

But you can tell these ppl time and time again but it doesn't seem to make an ounce of difference. They will continue to believe in the same meaningless shit.

 

[Sammiesunshine]

"trite" = banal: repeated too often; overfamiliar through overuse.

The ideas of the book are exactly that.

As I said in my above post.

Twilight is not quality storytelling.

And the fanfic thing? I'm always going to think it's pretty terrible because I know how much work goes into creating a novel. You, on the other hand, are entitled to believe it's a valid medium. Even if you're wrong

Thats the dictionary definition i can look that up myself heck i know that myself i am asking for specific examples related to the text
because i really fail to see how it is "overused" have u previously read a story where the reason the vampire can't go into sunlight is because they sparkle? frankly i haven't and i would love to know about any such book

and no i am not saying it is literary genius and i wouldn't compare it to a classic but as you said you know what goes into writing a novel so maybe don't hack on the author of it so badly because guess what she has writen what almost 5 novels now.
Oh and i'm curious what is your book about btw?

 

[Tulipa]

and no i am not saying it is literary genius and i wouldn't compare it to a classic but as you said you know what goes into writing a novel so maybe don't hack on the author of it so badly because guess what she has writen what almost 5 novels now.

Thank God for that.

Also, writing formulaic novels aren't exactly hard. It's sort of like paint by numbers if you have a simple storyline and a host of flat characters. Writing an interesting novel with a more original storyline is a little more difficult.

Plus I'm not the only person who thinks this. Examples:

I've read the first in the series, and I thought it was vapid. As someone else put it, it's a romance novel for people who don't have the guts to read a real trashy romance - with vampires thrown in for the hell of it. How many times a chapter can Bella gush about how painfully, ethereally beautiful her vampire boyfriend is? And using clumsiness as a character flaw? Come on. I understand the popularity of the series, though, and it makes me a little bit sad. Tell me I'm not the only one.

I started reading it about a month ago and got bored of it. I disliked Edward, just because everything was about how devastatingly gorgeous he is... I felt as though there are all these points where we were supposed to sympathise with him and say 'Oh, poor Edward', but I didn't feel anything for him at all... I would have liked a few more character flaws to 'humanise' him a little more, because I hate characters that are practically perfect. And Bella... I just find her kind of pathetic. .

Overall I found the series very boring. I can see why some people would like it; I just don't like it myself. Bella just seems so helpless and dull. There are a few interesting ideas in there, but it feels like they're buried in a pile of insipid comments about how Edward is so fantastic and wonderful.

I loved Twilight and New Moon.
Until I read Eclipse.

Reading Twilight again after reading Eclipse makes you realise Bella is awfully shallow. The romance between her and cullen wouldn't be so superficial if for one moment she could stop thinking about how good looking he is.

All good points. You just seem to have overlooked them. The characters are flawed because they're so perfect and if you can't get into the characters then no matter what story you have (with tiny perks like sparkles instead of bursting into flame! Oh how insightful!) it's not going to be interesting.

EDIT:

Oh and i'm curious what is your book about btw?

The four I have in the pipeline are on hold, some of my knowledge on this comes from that but most is from uni and a few of my lecturers who are full time writers as well. One thing though - I don't write about vampires.

 

[russianROULETTE]

I'm with you on this Tulipa.

But you can tell these ppl time and time again but it doesn't seem to make an ounce of difference. They will continue to believe in the same meaningless shit.

I agree with you on Twilight as a series (as you can see from what I said previously). I found Edward's character quite irritating (especially the constant descriptions of "OmGz LIeK EdWArD iS SoO HoT"; if I wanted to read about that I'd go on some 14-year-old's myspace), he was too perfect to be even close to realistic and while some people might drool over that, I didn't find it endearing in the slightest. And Bella, the way she complains about Forks you'd think what she did to make her mother happy was martyrdom. It's bad characterisation. If the two main characters are badly characterised, and the idea is not altogether original, I don't see why the series is so wonderful; she could just as well be writing Anne Rise fanfiction with a few twists. Plus, Meyer made the decision to publish her work knowing (unless she is stupid) that it would receive good AND bad press, she doesn't need people defending her works.

um actually i think this thread was make to express opinions about the books...

Exactly. if you don't want to hear anything bad said about the series, start a thread called 'Twilight FANS' or something...

I do have to disagree with the fanfiction comments, though, because when you release your work, everyone is allowed to think what they want about it, discuss it, and in that sense you don't own people's creative thoughts about it. Attempting to publish a fanfiction, of course, would be different, and I'd be entirely against that.

Also, there's the fact that authors can ask for fics not to be based on their work; if you look at the front page of fanfiction.net there is a list of authors ie Robin Hobb, Anne Rice, etc that don't want fanfics on the site, and the site respects that. If authors don't want their work used they can ask for it to be taken off. If they don't mind it or think it's a great means for practising writing skills (though not necessarily worldbuilding skills, which is not all there is to writing), then there shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Sammiesunshine]

Thank God for that.

Also, writing formulaic novels aren't exactly hard. It's sort of like paint by numbers if you have a simple storyline and a host of flat characters. Writing an interesting novel with a more original storyline is a little more difficult.

Plus I'm not the only person who thinks this. Examples:









All good points. You just seem to have overlooked them. The characters are flawed because they're so perfect and if you can't get into the characters then no matter what story you have (with tiny perks like sparkles instead of bursting into flame! Oh how insightful!) it's not going to be interesting.

As i said though it's not about it being literary genius but it is still likeable and that is a point some of those "interesting novels" as you call them lack COMPLETELY

And the sparkles thing was one example, as you should well know NOTHING is original hese days so i thought that example was interesting to me personally
I would love to see you do better so how about telling me the name of your book so i can check it out?

i do acknowledge that the book could have been written better but i still like it despite that yes it has its flaws, but please give me an example of a FLAWLESS novel... There isn't one because everyone has there own problems with every text they encounter.

and have you noticed that the ratio for like v.s. dislike is like 5:1 or more just thought that was a little bit interesting personally

anyways lets agree to disagree on this topic coz frankly this is a huge waste of my time

 

[Tulipa]

I do have to disagree with the fanfiction comments, though, because when you release your work, everyone is allowed to think what they want about it, discuss it, and in that sense you don't own people's creative thoughts about it. Attempting to publish a fanfiction, of course, would be different, and I'd be entirely against that.

Also, there's the fact that authors can ask for fics not to be based on their work; if you look at the front page of fanfiction.net there is a list of authors ie Robin Hobb, Anne Rice, etc that don't want fanfics on the site, and the site respects that. If authors don't want their work used they can ask for it to be taken off. If they don't mind it or think it's a great means for practising writing skills (though not necessarily worldbuilding skills, which is not all there is to writing), then there shouldn't be a problem.

The funny thing is that a lot of people say that if someone was to "publish" fanfiction then they'd be against it however in the ever developing world of the internet, putting up work on a site like fanfiction.net is akin to publishing it. You are being recognised for the work, reviews are made and people give you kudos. They also build up fanbases and win awards.

It's not merely a writing exercise or a story created to fulfill your own ideas about the original story when this is occurring then. It becomes *partly* your own work but in a sense, you've stolen the basis of it from someone else. This is my biggest problem with it.

Also, just because people don't want it up on a site like FF.net doesn't mean it's not published elsewhere.

 

[Tulipa]

As i said though it's not about it being literary genius but it is still likeable and that is a point some of those "interesting novels" as you call them lack COMPLETELY

And the sparkles thing was one example, as you should well know NOTHING is original hese days so i thought that example was interesting to me personally
I would love to see you do better so how about telling me the name of your book so i can check it out?

i do acknowledge that the book could have been written better but i still like it despite that yes it has its flaws, but please give me an example of a FLAWLESS novel... There isn't one because everyone has there own problems with every text they encounter.

and have you noticed that the ratio for like v.s. dislike is like 5:1 or more just thought that was a little bit interesting personally

anyways lets agree to disagree on this topic coz frankly this is a huge waste of my time

To be honest, it was just fun to annoy you to begin with. All you 08ers get so indignant and are so young and naive. I'd reply to all those points but again, it's getting boring because you're not getting as mad anymore.

But there are some near flawless works out there. I'd cite The Reader by Bernhard Schlink as one. That is one of, if not the, best books I've read. Also, again, with our ever developing world - scientifically and technology wise - you should realise that there are going to be new and original ideas.

 

[russianROULETTE]

The funny thing is that a lot of people say that if someone was to "publish" fanfiction then they'd be against it however in the ever developing world of the internet, putting up work on a site like fanfiction.net is akin to publishing it. You are being recognised for the work, reviews are made and people give you kudos. They also build up fanbases and win awards.

You may be recognised for writing the particular story, but you're also acknowledging the original source. Look at most stories, they will have a disclaimer that says that they're not taking credit for the universe or the original text. People give you kudos for your writing, and if you have an original element/plot, but not the settings/characters (unless your characterisation is particularly accurate) because they realise it doesn't belong to you. In no way is it as good as writing original fiction, nor does it require as much effort, but most people only do it for fun. And itcan be a starting point... for example Cassandra Clare, mentioned earlier in the thread, started off as a fanfiction.net author.

It's not merely a writing exercise or a story created to fulfill your own ideas about the original story when this is occurring then. It becomes *partly* your own work but in a sense, you've stolen the basis of it from someone else. This is my biggest problem with it.

True, but it's not like you're claiming it to be your own, you acknowledge the source. Unless you're doing the wrong thing,which unfortunately some people do.

Also, just because people don't want it up on a site like FF.net doesn't mean it's not published elsewhere.

Also true, and that is a problem. When an author disagrees with fanfiction, asks for it not to be posted and people still post it, that's disrespecting their wishes and legal right, but it doesn't mean all fanfiction is like that.

 

[Sammiesunshine]

To be honest, it was just fun to annoy you to begin with. All you 08ers get so indignant and are so young and naive. I'd reply to all those points but again, it's getting boring because you're not getting as mad anymore.

But there are some near flawless works out there. I'd cite The Reader by Bernhard Schlink as one. That is one of, if not the, best books I've read. Also, again, with our ever developing world - scientifically and technology wise - you should realise that there are going to be new and original ideas.

wow have you ever realised how you categorise people like you do as "08ers" that is pretty sad as well is the fact that you have fun arguing with a 17 yr old when your what 20 something seriously just have a think about that, i wouldn't want to be in that situation at your age no offense.

Anyway technology and science is just putting a new facade on an old house same ideas same content really maybe they talk about new forensic techniques or what not but it is still the same shit in these stories

and as for that text being near flawless that is your opinion i haven't read it and i might go do so in the near future but again your opinion and not everyones and my point with that argument was that with every text someone will not like it because everyone holds different opinions.

 

[Tulipa]

You may be recognised for writing the particular story, but you're also acknowledging the original source. Look at most stories, they will have a disclaimer that says that they're not taking credit for the universe or the original text. People give you kudos for your writing, and if you have an original element/plot, but not the settings/characters (unless your characterisation is particularly accurate). In no way is it as good as writing original fiction, nor does it require as much effort, but most people only do it for fun. And itcan be a starting point... for example Cassandra Clare, mentioned earlier in the thread, started off as a fanfiction.net author.

True, but it's not like you're claiming it to be your own, you acknowledge the source.

You may acknowledge the source but that doesn't change the fact that you are still getting kudos for doing half the work. I really don't mind if people do it in private. In fact, if you're doing it as a writing exercise as a beginner it's probably helpful. As soon as you start putting it out on the web and posting it as somewhat your own work - the disclaimers are really only in place to protect against legal grounds - then I have trouble rectifying the situation in my mind.

You are, for all rights and purposes, publishing a work when you put it on FF.net but again, it's not completely yours. The disclaimer may protect you legally but that's all it really does.

Also true, and that is a problem. When an author disagrees with fanfiction, asks for it not to be posted and people still post it, that's disrespecting their wishes and legal right, but it doesn't mean all fanfiction is like that.

Not all but the internet is vast and if J.K. Rowling snapped her fingers tomorrow and said she didn't want anyone to write HP fanfiction, do you think it would all come down? No. I think that fanfic writers might start out respecting the original author and canon but once they get into it, I think they feel they have a right to publish their fanfic as they write it.

wow have you ever realised how you categorise people like you do as "08ers" that is pretty sad as well is the fact that you have fun arguing with a 17 yr old when your what 20 something seriously just have a think about that, i wouldn't want to be in that situation at your age no offense.

Anyway technology and science is just putting a new facade on an old house same ideas same content really maybe they talk about new forensic techniques or what not but it is still the same shit in these stories

and as for that text being near flawless that is your opinion i haven't read it and i might go do so in the near future but again your opinion and not everyones and my point with that argument was that with every text someone will not like it because everyone holds different opinions.

BoS is fun for taunting. The newer members (i.e. you) get into it and I have fun. So sue me Also, I'm going to ignore your comment about technology and science. It's ignorance at its purest.

 

[Sammiesunshine]

You may acknowledge the source but that doesn't change the fact that you are still getting kudos for doing half the work. I really don't mind if people do it in private. In fact, if you're doing it as a writing exercise as a beginner it's probably helpful. As soon as you start putting it out on the web and posting it as somewhat your own work - the disclaimers are really only in place to protect against legal grounds - then I have trouble rectifying the situation in my mind.

You are, for all rights and purposes, publishing a work when you put it on FF.net but again, it's not completely yours. The disclaimer may protect you legally but that's all it really does.



Not all but the internet is vast and if J.K. Rowling snapped her fingers tomorrow and said she didn't want anyone to write HP fanfiction, do you think it would all come down? No. I think that fanfic writers might start out respecting the original author and canon but once they get into it, I think they feel they have a right to publish their fanfic as they write it.



BoS is fun for taunting. The newer members (i.e. you) get into it and I have fun. So sue me Also, I'm going to ignore your comment about technology and science. It's ignorance at its purest.

as i said sad
and honestly i'd like to read this book of yours im curious as to your writing style and what it is actually about.
give me a genre at least

 

[Annegelic]

but Jacob is like a 12 yr old wen first introduced... isnt he? yes have read the books but to my recollection he is just some kid, particulary in the 1st book, apart from being mates there isnt alot to play for this role. Jacob is more prominate in 2nd and 3rd books where he does his transformation and gets big really qiuck!

ah yeah i forgot about that. he's 16, two years younger than Bella. i figure he'll just do those 2 scenes from Twilight then they'll get another actor for NM and Eclipse.

 

[Tulipa]

as i said sad
and honestly i'd like to read this book of yours im curious as to your writing style and what it is actually about.
give me a genre at least

I don't write genre fiction. You're still stuck in the idea that stories have to have genres *sigh* Now that's sad. Genre fiction is work that is written for a specific genre - these days it's normally sci fi, horror, fantasy or romance.

I write fiction. Period. I'd like to call it literary fiction but we'll see how I go. I'm not saying I'm fantastic but I wouldn't write crap just to make money either. They're mostly realist works with urban settings and more character driven.

 

[russianROULETTE]

You may acknowledge the source but that doesn't change the fact that you are still getting kudos for doing half the work. I really don't mind if people do it in private. In fact, if you're doing it as a writing exercise as a beginner it's probably helpful. As soon as you start putting it out on the web and posting it as somewhat your own work - the disclaimers are really only in place to protect against legal grounds - then I have trouble rectifying the situation in my mind.

You are, for all rights and purposes, publishing a work when you put it on FF.net but again, it's not completely yours. The disclaimer may protect you legally but that's all it really does.

If you're a beginner doing it as a writing exercise, you may want constructive criticism or opinions, which is why you post it on the internet. If people like it, they give you kudos.

Not all but the internet is vast and if J.K. Rowling snapped her fingers tomorrow and said she didn't want anyone to write HP fanfiction, do you think it would all come down? No. I think that fanfic writers might start out respecting the original author and canon but once they get into it, I think they feel they have a right to publish their fanfic as they write it.

Yes, that's true, and that problem has been realised in her recent legal case, but it's not all people that are like that. I think in the end, it's a question of the fanfiction writer's morals. Personally, I have no moral problem with fanfiction, I think it's beneficial. But I can also see and understand your problem with it. How about we just agree to disagree?

Also, I'm going to ignore your comment about technology and science. It's ignorance at its purest.

lol, I saw that comment (hers, not yours) and laughed at the irony of it...

as i said sad
and honestly i'd like to read this book of yours im curious as to your writing style and what it is actually about.
give me a genre at least

I can see where you're going with this, and just have to say, you don't have to be a writer to know whether something is bad or good. Not saying that Twilight is bad btw, just that it is in my opinion.

 

[Tulipa]

If you're a beginner doing it as a writing exercise, you may want constructive criticism or opinions, which is why you post it on the internet. If people like it, they give you kudos.

God. CC on the net? Pffft. People can't take it.

Yes, that's true, and that problem has been realised in her recent legal case, but it's not all people that are like that. I think in the end, it's a question of the fanfiction writer's morals. Personally, I have no moral problem with fanfiction, I think it's beneficial. But I can also see and understand your problem with it. How about we just agree to disagree?

I can see benefits in doing it privately as a writing exercise but I'm glad you see the issues with it on a larger scale. It's just getting worrying in the sense of the copyright and plagiarism and when a creative idea suddenly isn't yours anymore. I'd be more happy to agree to disagree with you on this though.

lol, I saw that comment (hers, not yours) and laughed at the irony of it...

Morons are funny aren't they?

 

[russianROULETTE]

God. CC on the net? Pffft. People can't take it.

Haha, also true. I've tried giving CC before. Some more mature people can handle it, but it doesn't help that fanfiction.net is pretty much made up of 14-year-old girls.

I can see benefits in doing it privately as a writing exercise but I'm glad you see the issues with it on a larger scale. It's just getting worrying in the sense of the copyright and plagiarism and when a creative idea suddenly isn't yours anymore. I'd be more happy to agree to disagree with you on this though.

Yeah, I agree. The plagiarism suit JKRowling is in at the moment is a perfect example of what you're worried about. It just irritates me that there are people out there that are that stupid.

Morons are funny aren't they?

Lol, definitely.

 

[lisajf]

it seems like an awful lot of time you are wasting on just critisizing!
meh i really dont give a shit what you think i just thinks its a little sad but anyway..

 

[lisajf]

id love to get my hands on this evidence of you knowing how much work gets put into a book.

no one here is saying that it is the best thing on earth but we enjoy so just leave it stop ruining it and just go somewhere else with you negativity my god its just sooooo sad...i wont be coming onto this forum anymore its just too far from what it was orinally for i bet you're happy now tulipa