The Real Inspector Hound. Comedy Or Crime Fiction? (1 Viewer)

[smb69]

I was recently discussing Stoppards 'The Real Inspector Hound' with my extension One english class and some issues were raised which forced me to question whether the play is part of the crime fiction or part of the comedy genre. Personally i believe the Play is not a crime fiction and has been parodied to the extent that it is now a comedic piece. Please help me clarify my view if you feel at any stage it is incorrect.

Genres have particular conventions which prescribe a specific text to a specific genre, for example in crime fiction we the responder expect some kind of crime to take place, a victim, a perpetrator and a detective. However Tom Stoppard builds his text around satire, he himself stated that the play should be taken as a joke.The play has very few thematic concerns related to the crime fiction genre.

Stoppard's play is a satirical piece on Agatha Christies 'The Mouse Trap' he aims to show the intuisionist style as too focused on logic and reason, so why place your own text in a genre which revolves around the very things you rebel against? I believe The Real Inspector Hound is a comedic genre piece and not a crime fiction novel because it focuses on making something look ridiculous, satire, parody, hyperbole. I believe it is a comedy because it focuses on these ideas rather than the essentials of crime fiction throughout the ages, restoration of order, a crime being thoroughly investigated, reason and reader involvement.

I believe to classify the play as a crime fiction is absolutley absurd, just as crime fiction has its many sub sections, hard boiled, intuisionist...etc so does the comedy genre, and in my opinion Satirical comedies are very much a part of that, and where this play should be placed. Please feel free to post your opinions, im really interested in seeing what other people think because i thought the play was ridiculous.

 

[Dragie]

You didn't like the play?
I agree with you that it is not part of the cri fi genre and that it is a satirical parody of crime fiction and that many comedic conventions are displayed. However, the reason we are studying The Real Inspector Hound is to make the conventions of crime fiction clearer (as they are 'made fun of').
Personally, I thought that the play was hilarious and extremely interesting to analyse but that's my opinion...

 

[kami]

An important part of this module is realising the effect of genre hybridity - the melding of certain genre conventions within a certain text. This happens in The Big Sleep where we have added romance conventions filtered into an essentially hardboiled/noir text. Similar comparisons can be made with Hound, as it is both a crime and a mockery of the crime and thus you have a piece of crime fiction which satires the genre - James often does the same, though not with the same humour, she subtly mocks other crime texts with little references embedded in the text that only the more well read responders will pick up on.

I believe it is a comedy because it focuses on these ideas rather than the essentials of crime fiction throughout the ages, restoration of order, a crime being thoroughly investigated, reason and reader involvement.

As I've been getting at, not all crime fiction is like this - genre is static, stale and conventional but it is also fluid and dynamic, shifting with the social values of the populace until we have difficulty defining all of crime fiction under a set of blanket conventions - order will not always be restored, crime will not always be thoroughly investigated, reason may be thrown to the side and so on.

 

[Trillium]

Let's see where rambling takes us...
firstly:
No text can utilise each one of a genres conventions and only those conventions. Therefore, no text belongs solely in one genre.
If an author attempted this, the text would, i believe, become so simplistic it would likely be interpreted as some kind of parody or satire.
In the case of TRIH, it is a piece of crime fiction, in that there is a crime, and it is solved. It is an example of the cozy house school (eg. Agatha Christie) in that location, cast, crime and revelation are all, in some way, adhering to the conventions.
It is a comedy, in that these conventions are overplayed and satirised.

See, the reason TRIH is a comedy is because the conventions of Crime fiction are used and satirised. If those conventions weren't recognised, the play wouldn't be funny at all. The comedic nature of the play depends on a recognition of the use of the Crime Fiction conventions. Therefor, TRIH is primarily Crime Fiction.
I think. Mind you, i just made most of that up then.

~Trill

 

[smb69]

I was reading some of the reactions to my post and i can see some points of view, however i still hold mine firm.


"No text can utilise each one of a genres conventions and only those conventions. Therefore, no text belongs solely in one genre."

Although it doesnt happen often texts CAN utilise the conventions of a single genre and then solely belong in that genre, it does happen.

The fact that the crime was not solved, the audience was left dumbfounded as to what the heck was going on, it wasn't a crime fiction it was a joke. the fact that crime fiction is being satirised does not make the play a crime fiction in my opinion. Yes this may not be the best example but the "scary movie" series play on the conventions of horror movies and we don't regard them horror, why? because they are too ridiculous and far from the established conventions, just as the real inspector hound is.

i mean Stoppard has stated himself that he wanted the play to entertain, that was its purpose and he does not achieve this through crime fiction, his dominant purpose was entertainment and he has achieved this through comedic antics rather than crime fiction.

Please feel free to attack my points lol can learn alot from what other people have to say

 

[Trillium]

Although it doesnt happen often texts CAN utilise the conventions of a single genre and then solely belong in that genre, it does happen.

Examples? I just haven't come across any... Everything seems to have a least something in it that makes it fit into at least two genres...

The fact that the crime was not solved, the audience was left dumbfounded as to what the heck was going on, it wasn't a crime fiction it was a joke.

True. Both of those aspects of the play add to the comdey, or satirical, side of things.The thing is, there are aspects within the play that make it crime fiction (the cozy house conventions, the interrogation at the end etc.) and i think the thing you have to do is decide which aspects are more important in the formation of it.
Obviously, you could decide either way. I just thought that TRIH wouldn't be a parody, wouldn't satirise the conventions, if the conventions weren't purposefully placed there in the beginning. That, to me, makes the crime fiction side of thigns weigh more heavily.

i mean Stoppard has stated himself that he wanted the play to entertain, that was its purpose and he does not achieve this through crime fiction, his dominant purpose was entertainment and he has achieved this through comedic antics rather than crime fiction.

Does it matter what Stoppard says? Really?
There are a few pointed comments in there about the critics and the way people take plays to seriously, so you could, in effect, say that the play was simply a piece of social commentary, relying on aspects of satire/ Crime fiction to get the message across.
See. Now i want to argue that instead. bLah.
Anyway- i just think that if you looked at the play, the foundation of it would be the crime fiction conventions, and to me, the foundation is what counts...
TRIH is both comedy and crime fiction, but i'd argue that the comedy was a technique, and the crime fiction was the conventions.

~Trill

 

[porterizer]

comedy is not a genre, it's a technique...stupid argument.

 

[nwatts]

I was recently discussing Stoppards 'The Real Inspector Hound' with my extension One english class and some issues were raised which forced me to question whether the play is part of the crime fiction or part of the comedy genre. Personally i believe the Play is not a crime fiction and has been parodied to the extent that it is now a comedic piece. Please help me clarify my view if you feel at any stage it is incorrect.

Genres have particular conventions which prescribe a specific text to a specific genre, for example in crime fiction we the responder expect some kind of crime to take place, a victim, a perpetrator and a detective. However Tom Stoppard builds his text around satire, he himself stated that the play should be taken as a joke.The play has very few thematic concerns related to the crime fiction genre.

Stoppard's play is a satirical piece on Agatha Christies 'The Mouse Trap' he aims to show the intuisionist style as too focused on logic and reason, so why place your own text in a genre which revolves around the very things you rebel against? I believe The Real Inspector Hound is a comedic genre piece and not a crime fiction novel because it focuses on making something look ridiculous, satire, parody, hyperbole. I believe it is a comedy because it focuses on these ideas rather than the essentials of crime fiction throughout the ages, restoration of order, a crime being thoroughly investigated, reason and reader involvement.

I believe to classify the play as a crime fiction is absolutley absurd, just as crime fiction has its many sub sections, hard boiled, intuisionist...etc so does the comedy genre, and in my opinion Satirical comedies are very much a part of that, and where this play should be placed. Please feel free to post your opinions, im really interested in seeing what other people think because i thought the play was ridiculous.

The play is comedy. Fundamentally, yes. On the most rudimentary level it aims to entertain its audience through comedy. It does this through parodying the traditional crime fiction genre. It features all the conventions of the crime genre, and portrays them in such a way to insight comedy, among other things.

Purely because the thematic concern is not orientated around the crime genre does not mean it is disqualified from the genre. It contains all the common physical conventions of a crime text. Genre is concerned with convention- it does not discriminate as to whether this is thematic or physical or whatever.

Your argument is stupid because it is so pointless and because you have no idea what "genre" is.

 

[Jeza]

Yes I agree. Indeed You couldn't argue that TRIH is not crime fiction, owing to its comedy, because if you think about the module its about the acceptance of genre. Genre is fluid and thus the comedy only is used as a subversive means to challenge the accepted conventions. TRIH wouldn't be considered CF if it didn't fulfill at least some of the conventions and quite frankly Comedy isn't a genre its a technique. In your arguement about Stoppard saying it was merely to entertain, this was largely the purpose of 20th century of Crime fiction Agatha Christie's novel's werent made to have any social or politically commentary (as Anil's Ghost DOES!) but purely to entertain so what are you getting at? Are you just trying to be difficult? Say you bought A chocalte milk (excuse the anecdote) just because it isn't overtly choclate doesn' t necessarily mean that it wont taste like choclate, its just presented in a different way much like Stoppard interprets the genre. There are so many stock conventions of the genre that are obvious and some have been hybridised. This module is about Genre, not crime fiction and thats why your getting me angry! (phew sorry if that was harsh)

 

[smb69]

Not trying to be difficult at all, just trying to express a view that may be different to the stock standard view, if i knew expressing a different view would cause so much attack believe me i would not have shared my opinion. Im not asking anybody to agree at all its just an issue i bought up to recieve some responses and instead i recieved a response and attacks, not very fair. Yeah after performing the play i understand it is a crime fiction but comedys part can not be neglected, as for comedy not being a genre i believe it is a genre. It is fluid, it has conventions, there are hybrids, there are different layers within it, say whatever you want, attack me if thats what makes someones day feel great ( btw Jeza thats not directed at yourself) but why should someones OPINION be knocked? i never tried to make you agree with me so how about respecting someone eleses opinion rather than attacking it.

 

[kami]

I don't think you personally are under attack smb69, however your arguments have certainly been considered and either attacked or accepted by those posting whether bluntly or not.

To bring it back to the original topic though, to have more comedic conventions than normal does not lessen its validity as a crime fiction text. That would be judged by the crime fic conventions themselves, not through additional genre categories.

 

[Asheroth]

In the end it doesn't really matter whether it's a crime fiction text or not. What matters is if the text provides you with adequate information and material to form part of an essay. TRIH does this quite well.

If I was going to attack any set text, it'd be Anil's Ghost. Not only is it boring as all hell, I think its connections to the conventions of crime fiction are tenuous at best. It's primarily a political and social commentary. I did my HSC for Extension 1 last year and I completely ignored that text. The Big Sleep and Skull Beneath the Skin did me fine.