The choice (2 Viewers)

[mervvyn]

oh come on the alp's just as bad, next time one of their ads come on tv just pretend its a liberal ad and see what u think lol

lol, i have to disagree. Mark Latham talking about a vision, whatever that might be, with nice lighting for a positive mood, talking about policies to make Australia better, whether you agree with them or not, is far more optimistic than a dark voice talking negatively about the threat of higher interest rates again and again and again on a dark background.
Even the ones saying it's time for a change/i'm ready are more positive than that...

Ideology, while occasionally admirable, will not determine the election. Ideology makes you set in your ways, and thus unlikely to be worth having your vote bought. Tax cuts and other hip pocket measures will quite probably sway the swinging voters in the marginal seats - apparently the only people who matter.

The reason i kept coming back to advertising is becuase you referred to "language" in the first post in the thread - and where better do parties show the language and mindset they have than when they try to market themselves to the voting public?

ok, going by the ABC map - Lingiari, which is most of the NT and would probably have a fairly significant indigenous population, is held by the ALP
Solomon, the seat for Darwin, is only held by 0.1% (i mention because of indigenous communities/fairly rural).
Kennedy in Qld is independent
All of Tassie is Labor
Capricornia in Qld is ALP
Kalgoolie is fairly marginal according to the site.
http://www.abc.net.au/elections/federal/2004/electionmaps/

Where you see hatred and envy, other people see social justice. It depends which side you're looking in from. If you can afford your private education and health, that's great. The government supports that, and so do i. But the government also has a responsibility to maintain an adequate standard for those who can't afford it. Labor's policies aren't perfect, but a lot of people see a bit of balancing rather than robbing. I personally think that everyone should get the tax cuts rather than just over $52000ers, but anyway.

The Liberal Party was having fun with the Tampa last election. That was definitely a policy of manipulated suspicion of foreigners, and hardly one of love thy neighbour.

Voting trends by seat don't address the whole issue - i wonder what the breakdown of the indigenous vote is?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

lol, i have to disagree. Mark Latham talking about a vision, whatever that might be, with nice lighting for a positive mood, talking about policies to make Australia better, whether you agree with them or not, is far more optimistic than a dark voice talking negatively about the threat of higher interest rates again and again and again on a dark background.
Even the ones saying it's time for a change/i'm ready are more positive than that...

Ideology, while occasionally admirable, will not determine the election. Ideology makes you set in your ways, and thus unlikely to be worth having your vote bought. Tax cuts and other hip pocket measures will quite probably sway the swinging voters in the marginal seats - apparently the only people who matter.

The reason i kept coming back to advertising is becuase you referred to "language" in the first post in the thread - and where better do parties show the language and mindset they have than when they try to market themselves to the voting public?

ok, going by the ABC map - Lingiari, which is most of the NT and would probably have a fairly significant indigenous population, is held by the ALP
Solomon, the seat for Darwin, is only held by 0.1% (i mention because of indigenous communities/fairly rural).
Kennedy in Qld is independent
All of Tassie is Labor
Capricornia in Qld is ALP
Kalgoolie is fairly marginal according to the site.
http://www.abc.net.au/elections/federal/2004/electionmaps/

Where you see hatred and envy, other people see social justice. It depends which side you're looking in from. If you can afford your private education and health, that's great. The government supports that, and so do i. But the government also has a responsibility to maintain an adequate standard for those who can't afford it. Labor's policies aren't perfect, but a lot of people see a bit of balancing rather than robbing. I personally think that everyone should get the tax cuts rather than just over $52000ers, but anyway.

The Liberal Party was having fun with the Tampa last election. That was definitely a policy of manipulated suspicion of foreigners, and hardly one of love thy neighbour.

Voting trends by seat don't address the whole issue - i wonder what the breakdown of the indigenous vote is?

yet the coalition holds most of the rural areas where all sides of politics say we need help?

 

[Rorix]

JOHN HOWARD WILL SAY ANYTHING TO GET ELECTED.

HE'S UNBELEIVABLE.

COSTELLO: I WON THE OFFICE PLAYING SCRATCHIES. SCRATCH ME HAPPY.....YES!

Weird how John Howard runs negative ads about himself??

 

[Not-That-Bright]

It would appear latham doesn't even need to run the negative ads against howard (althought yes, he does.)

Anyone seen those ads about east timor? sure it's a fine issue.. but bringing it up at election time and specifically mentioning alexander downer & howard? why not say 'whoever gets elected in this election, its important to be fair to the east timorese people'.

 

[saladsurgery]

it's timor's oil. but besides which, it does seem a sort of strange thing to revive at election time given that it hasn't been getting that much mainstream media coverage of late.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Yea but i'd at least ask them to call on both parties...
for all they know in 4 days howard wont be able to do anything about it.

 

[ohne]

the ALP doesnt support AWA's because they are open to be expolited by employers...

Oh bullshit. The ALP doesn't support AWAs because the trade union movement donates them millions of dollars per year and they are obliged to return the favour. It is about helping out union mates, not employees.

AWAs are not open to exploitation. They are all checked by the office of the employment advocate which DOES NOT cover union agreements. In my opinion union agreements are more open to abuse as each individual worker has no say over their pay and conditions.

 

[ohne]

lets rehash what you said
Oh bullshit. the Liberal party supports AWA's because big business donotes millions of dollars per years and they are obliged to return the favour.

AWAs are not open to exploitation?...? continue?...? Why?

Do you really really think that employers are not going to exploit workers in a one on one bargaining sitaution...if you believe that you have great faith in the ethics and morality of employer groups...






well? How can you expect the indiviual to bargain when he or she has little knowledge of emplyoment law or contract law and has meagre resources comapred to the employer? Do you think that the employer is going to bargain in the best interests of the employee?

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Do you think you have the resources and knowledge to bargain individually with a large employer? With your knowledge of contract and employment law and industrial relations theory you would be totally bested by the employer group!

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you also assume that the employee would have a greater imfluence over his/her pay and conditons without the unions...it assumes that the employer group listens to individuals that have no resources and often little knowledge of their rights or the process so as to put their case for their pay and conditions...

Workers cannot be exploited because the employment advocate must check the agreement to ensure this.

You assume that workers have no powers themself. This is complete nonsense. AWAs reward workers who have inititative, work hard and improve productivity. The ALP policy is about punishing those who work hard and rewarding union officials.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

So your to tell me that being in a union makes the individual know the laws better?
The unions set them up into contracts that they may not desire, the unions are not regulated as awa's are.

You talk about the worker trying to take on the 'collective', what if a worker doesn't want to join a union? there used to be workers who couldn't get a job at a company because they didn't want to join the union.

 

[mervvyn]

i don't know much about IR, so i need to ask a really obvious question.

is every AWA vetted by the IR commission or whatever it is? As in every individual employee's agreement?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

They legally have to be.

 

[Nick]

JOHN HOWARD WILL SAY ANYTHING TO GET ELECTED.

HE'S UNBELEIVABLE.

COSTELLO: I WON THE OFFICE PLAYING SCRATCHIES. SCRATCH ME HAPPY.....YES!

Weird how John Howard runs negative ads about himself??

those ads are about revealing howard's dishonesty, not unjustly discrediting him as a policy maker and therefore scaring the public out of voting for him

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Yea.. from your perspective it's revealing howards dishonesty, from my perspective its decieving the australian public too (the RBA sets interest rates, but government policy causes the changes which cause the RBA to change interest rates).

 

[Nick]

Yea.. from your perspective it's revealing howards dishonesty, from my perspective its decieving the australian public too (the RBA sets interest rates, but government policy causes the changes which cause the RBA to change interest rates).

but once it's been proven by however many economists that the alleged connection isn't true, they should stop

say they were telling the public that a Labor government was bad for their health just because when there were past Labor governments, there was an increase in demand for hospital beds or something.. and then every doctor in the country told you that was bullshit, how would you feel if the government kept on telling you there was a link. it's like they think we are stupid.

 

[jameseginton]

Pardon me but the liberal government has also introduced certified agreements. This means employees negotiate as a group rather than an individual. Most workers are on certified agreements. Only the highly skilled workers, mainly executives are on AWA's. AWA's are prefered by business but AWA's are prefered by employees. Workers are better off under this system than a previous wages policy.

What i've loved most about latham in this election and his supporters, is how they call Howard an arse licker. Excuse me who is sucking up to Bob Brown. His policy for forests was shit, and was only to buy preferences. He will see how bad it was when he loses two seats in Tassie, plus other logging area s like Eden-Monaro. What an idiot at least suck up to the right people. Bob Brown is a drop kick and has done little to help Mark Latham. I think its time to shut the gate, the horse has bolted, the coalition by 12 seats

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I know of economists that state that there is a connection, read the thread 'About interest rates' or something like that.

Also read the thread about what the economist magazine has to say about the election.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

jameseginton - labor calls liberal names, why do they do it?
Asquithian - liberals call labor names, why do they do it?

I don't think either of you are going to get through to each other lol

 

[jameseginton]

You have got to be kidding, you all call John Howard an arse licker. You go and protest with him being led around by George Bush. Cop it, Latham is worse, he chose a drop kick and because of that he's going to lose the election. You guys are two faced. I'm always brought back to the idea, "Whoever laughs last, laughs the loudest".

 

[Not-That-Bright]

It does kinda bother me that latham felt he needs bob brown there to explain to him about the environment, maybe his own environment minister would have been better.

At the same point, although we don't see howards social policy being lead by the CDP or family first, we do have tony abbot who seems to be recieving some of his social ideas from church leaders...

 

[jameseginton]

Here Here,
Abbot and John Anderson are both stupid. There actually a liability. I suppose even the labor party have these people in Simon Crean and Mark Latham (would you know it both labor leaders in recent times)