Josie
Everything's perfect!
Well said.
The Bible (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter robbie1
- Start date
ari89
MOSSAD Deputy Director
This is good and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants everyone to be saved and to understand the truth. 5 For there is only one God and one Mediator who can reconcile God and humanity—the man Christ Jesus. 6 He gave his life to purchase freedom for everyone. This is the message God gave to the world at just the right time. 7 And I have been chosen as a preacher and apostle to teach the Gentiles this message about faith and truth. I’m not exaggerating—just telling the truth.Josie said:
1 Tim 2:4-7
The job of a preacher is to spread the good news, not pretend to be God.
ari89
MOSSAD Deputy Director
What a shame, you are too caught up in tradition to see the truth. Heck, you don't even have a basis for any of your words so far. I find it ironic that you accuse me of being misleading after you have just referenced ideas with irrelevant verses. How should I put it then? Why do you distract yourself from following Jesus by crying to Mary and quasi-worshipping images of her? In all honesty, with your track record I would hate to see your assignments:robbie1 said:
The sky is pink[1] and contains yellow pixies[2] who utilised electrical impulses[3] to classify carnivores[4] as of the Jewish tradition[5].
1. John 3:16
2. Tandy Catalogue, p. 3
3. Cases on Torts, Morison p.58
4. Kiss of the Dragon, 2:15
5. Wikipedia, 'The Meaning of Life'
Edit: I said nothing about purgatory...but please blow us away with your nonsensical ramblings.
And btw, why do you ignore every time you are caught out with an arrogant response irrelevant to all arguments? It it because you can't deal with being wrong about something? Stop defending what you don't know - learn for yourself first and then you can preach about it. But, until then you are an under qualified embarrassment to your own beliefs. Feel free to one day thank me for pointing out that there is more to your religion than you know - you should really understand it before you practice it or preach it (and yes this is irrelevant to whether I agree or disagree with it.)
P.s. When I say quote the bible I mean quote the bible not some random rambling with an irrelevant reference next to it.
Last edited:
robbie1
Member
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2005
- Messages
- 405
- Gender
- Male
- HSC
- 2005
I see the issue here is apostolic succession.
Well....its a shame you and your church disragard it because it is what Christ instituted.
He also founded his Church on a 'rock'....Peter (the first Pope). This is the issue I should have started with.
Matt. to Rev. - Peter is mentioned 155 times and the rest of apostles combined are only mentioned 130 times. Peter is also always listed first except in 1 Cor. 3:22 and Gal. 2:9 (which are obvious exceptions to the rule).
Matt. 10:2; Mark 1:36; 3:16; Luke 6:14-16; Acts 1:3; 2:37; 5:29 - these are some of many examples where Peter is mentioned first among the apostles.
Matt. 14:28-29 - only Peter has the faith to walk on water. No other man in Scripture is said to have the faith to walk on water. This faith ultimately did not fail.
Matt. 16:16, Mark 8:29; John 6:69 - Peter is first among the apostles to confess the divinity of Christ.
Matt. 16:17 - Peter alone is told he has received divine knowledge by a special revelation from God the Father.
Matt. 16:18 - Jesus builds the Church only on Peter, the rock, with the other apostles as the foundation and Jesus as the Head.
Matt. 16:19 - only Peter receives the keys, which represent authority over the Church and facilitate dynastic succession to his authority.
Matt. 17:24-25 - the tax collector approaches Peter for Jesus' tax. Peter is the spokesman for Jesus. He is the Vicar of Christ.
Matt. 17:26-27 - Jesus pays the half-shekel tax with one shekel, for both Jesus and Peter. Peter is Christ's representative on earth.
Matt. 18:21 - in the presence of the disciples, Peter asks Jesus about the rule of forgiveness. One of many examples where Peter takes a leadership role among the apostles in understanding Jesus' teachings.
Matt. 19:27 - Peter speaks on behalf of the apostles by telling Jesus that they have left everything to follow Him.
Mark 10:28 - here also, Peter speaks on behalf of the disciples by declaring that they have left everything to follow Him.
Mark 11:21 - Peter speaks on behalf of the disciples in remembering Jesus' curse on the fig tree.
Mark 14:37 - at Gethsemane, Jesus asks Peter, and no one else, why he was asleep. Peter is accountable to Jesus for his actions on behalf of the apostles because he has been appointed by Jesus as their leader.
Mark 16:7 - Peter is specified by an angel as the leader of the apostles as the angel confirms the resurrection of Christ.
Luke 5:3 – Jesus teaches from Peter’s boat which is metaphor for the Church. Jesus guides Peter and the Church into all truth.
Luke 5:4,10 - Jesus instructs Peter to let down the nets for a catch, and the miraculous catch follows. Peter, the Pope, is the "fisher of men."
Luke 7:40-50- Jesus addresses Peter regarding the rule of forgiveness and Peter answers on behalf of the disciples. Jesus also singles Peter out and judges his conduct vis-*-vis the conduct of the woman who anointed Him.
Luke 8:45 - when Jesus asked who touched His garment, it is Peter who answers on behalf of the disciples.
Luke 8:51; 9:28; 22:8; Acts 1:13; 3:1,3,11; 4:13,19; 8:14 - Peter is always mentioned before John, the disciple whom Jesus loved.
Luke 9:28;33 - Peter is mentioned first as going to mountain of transfiguration and the only one to speak at the transfiguration.
Luke 12:41 - Peter seeks clarification of a parable on behalf on the disciples. This is part of Peter's formation as the chief shepherd of the flock after Jesus ascended into heaven.
Luke 22:31-32 - Jesus prays for Peter alone, that his faith may not fail, and charges him to strengthen the rest of the apostles.
Luke 24:12, John 20:4-6 - John arrived at the tomb first but stopped and waited for Peter. Peter then arrived and entered the tomb first.
Luke 24:34 - the two disciples distinguish Peter even though they both had seen the risen Jesus the previous hour. See Luke 24:33.
John 6:68 - after the disciples leave, Peter is the first to speak and confess his belief in Christ after the Eucharistic discourse.
John 13:6-9 - Peter speaks out to the Lord in front of the apostles concerning the washing of feet.
John 13:36; 21:18 - Jesus predicts Peter's death. Peter was martyred at Rome in 67 A.D. Several hundred years of papal successors were also martyred.
John 21:2-3,11 - Peter leads the fishing and his net does not break. The boat (the "barque of Peter") is a metaphor for the Church.
John 21:7 - only Peter got out of the boat and ran to the shore to meet Jesus. Peter is the earthly shepherd leading us to God.
John 21:15 - in front of the apostles, Jesus asks Peter if he loves Jesus "more than these," which refers to the other apostles. Peter is the head of the apostolic see.
John 21:15-17 - Jesus charges Peter to "feed my lambs," "tend my sheep," "feed my sheep." Sheep means all people, even the apostles.
Acts 1:13 - Peter is first when entering upper room after our Lord's ascension. The first Eucharist and Pentecost were given in this room.
Acts 1:15 - Peter initiates the selection of a successor to Judas right after Jesus ascended into heaven, and no one questions him. Further, if the Church needed a successor to Judas, wouldn't it need one to Peter? Of course.
Acts 2:14 - Peter is first to speak for the apostles after the Holy Spirit descended upon them at Pentecost. Peter is the first to preach the Gospel.
Acts 2:38 - Peter gives first preaching in the early Church on repentance and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.
Acts 3:1,3,4 - Peter is mentioned first as going to the Temple to pray.
Acts 3:6-7 - Peter works the first healing of the apostles.
Acts 3:12-26, 4:8-12 - Peter teaches the early Church the healing through Jesus and that there is no salvation other than Christ.
Acts 5:3 - Peter declares the first anathema of Ananias and Sapphira which is ratified by God, and brings about their death. Peter exercises his binding authority.
Acts 5:15 - Peter's shadow has healing power. No other apostle is said to have this power.
Acts 8:14 - Peter is mentioned first in conferring the sacrament of confirmation.
Acts 8:20-23 - Peter casts judgment on Simon's quest for gaining authority through the laying on of hands. Peter exercises his binding and loosing authority.
Acts 9:32-34 - Peter is mentioned first among the apostles and works the healing of Aeneas.
Acts 9:38-40 - Peter is mentioned first among the apostles and raises Tabitha from the dead.
Acts 10:5 - Cornelius is told by an angel to call upon Peter. Angels are messengers of God. Peter was granted this divine vision.
Acts 10:34-48, 11:1-18 - Peter is first to teach about salvation for all (Jews and Gentiles).
Acts 12:5 - this verse implies that the "whole Church" offered "earnest prayers" for Peter, their leader, during his imprisonment.
Acts 12:6-11 - Peter is freed from jail by an angel. He is the first object of divine intervention in the early Church.
Acts 15:7-12 - Peter resolves the first doctrinal issue on circumcision at the Church's first council at Jerusalem, and no one questions him. After Peter the Papa spoke, all were kept silent.
Acts 15:12 - only after Peter (the Pope) speaks do Paul and Barnabas (bishops) speak in support of Peter's definitive teaching.
Acts 15:13-14 - then James speaks to further acknowledge Peter's definitive teaching. "Simeon (Peter) has related how God first visited..."
Rom. 15:20 - Paul says he doesn't want to build on "another man's foundation" referring to Peter, who built the Church in Rome.
1 Cor. 9:5 – Peter is distinguished from the rest of the apostles and brethren of the Lord.
1 Cor. 15:4-8 - Paul distinguishes Jesus' post-resurrection appearances to Peter from those of the other apostles. Christ appeared “to Cephas, then to the twelve.”
Gal.1:18 - Paul spends fifteen days with Peter privately before beginning his ministry, even after Christ's Revelation to Paul.
1 Peter 5:1 - Peter acts as the chief bishop by "exhorting" all the other bishops and elders of the Church.
1 Peter 5:13 - Some Protestants argue against the Papacy by trying to prove Peter was never in Rome. First, this argument is irrelevant to whether Jesus instituted the Papacy. Secondly, this verse demonstrates that Peter was in fact in Rome. Peter writes from "Babylon" which was a code name for Rome during these days of persecution. See, for example, Rev. 14:8, 16:19, 17:5, 18:2,10,21, which show that "Babylon" meant Rome. Rome was the "great city" of the New Testament period. Because Rome during this age was considered the center of the world, the Lord wanted His Church to be established in Rome.
2 Peter 1:14 - Peter writes about Jesus' prediction of Peter's death, embracing the eventual martyrdom that he would suffer.
2 Peter 3:16 - Peter is making a judgment on the proper interpretation of Paul's letters. Peter is the chief shepherd of the flock.
Matt. 23:11; Mark 9:35; 10:44 - yet Peter, as the first, humbled himself to be the last and servant of all servants.
I'll also take this opportunity to say that Catholics do not believe the Pope to be infallible in all his pronouncements.
The papal doctrine of infallibility applies only to formal statements of religious instruction in matters of faith and morals when he is speaking with the authority given to him as universal pastor to all the faithful.
It has been used very rarely indeed. It is the religious equivalent of stating that the Supreme Court's decision in a case is legally binding
Well....its a shame you and your church disragard it because it is what Christ instituted.
He also founded his Church on a 'rock'....Peter (the first Pope). This is the issue I should have started with.
Matt. to Rev. - Peter is mentioned 155 times and the rest of apostles combined are only mentioned 130 times. Peter is also always listed first except in 1 Cor. 3:22 and Gal. 2:9 (which are obvious exceptions to the rule).
Matt. 10:2; Mark 1:36; 3:16; Luke 6:14-16; Acts 1:3; 2:37; 5:29 - these are some of many examples where Peter is mentioned first among the apostles.
Matt. 14:28-29 - only Peter has the faith to walk on water. No other man in Scripture is said to have the faith to walk on water. This faith ultimately did not fail.
Matt. 16:16, Mark 8:29; John 6:69 - Peter is first among the apostles to confess the divinity of Christ.
Matt. 16:17 - Peter alone is told he has received divine knowledge by a special revelation from God the Father.
Matt. 16:18 - Jesus builds the Church only on Peter, the rock, with the other apostles as the foundation and Jesus as the Head.
Matt. 16:19 - only Peter receives the keys, which represent authority over the Church and facilitate dynastic succession to his authority.
Matt. 17:24-25 - the tax collector approaches Peter for Jesus' tax. Peter is the spokesman for Jesus. He is the Vicar of Christ.
Matt. 17:26-27 - Jesus pays the half-shekel tax with one shekel, for both Jesus and Peter. Peter is Christ's representative on earth.
Matt. 18:21 - in the presence of the disciples, Peter asks Jesus about the rule of forgiveness. One of many examples where Peter takes a leadership role among the apostles in understanding Jesus' teachings.
Matt. 19:27 - Peter speaks on behalf of the apostles by telling Jesus that they have left everything to follow Him.
Mark 10:28 - here also, Peter speaks on behalf of the disciples by declaring that they have left everything to follow Him.
Mark 11:21 - Peter speaks on behalf of the disciples in remembering Jesus' curse on the fig tree.
Mark 14:37 - at Gethsemane, Jesus asks Peter, and no one else, why he was asleep. Peter is accountable to Jesus for his actions on behalf of the apostles because he has been appointed by Jesus as their leader.
Mark 16:7 - Peter is specified by an angel as the leader of the apostles as the angel confirms the resurrection of Christ.
Luke 5:3 – Jesus teaches from Peter’s boat which is metaphor for the Church. Jesus guides Peter and the Church into all truth.
Luke 5:4,10 - Jesus instructs Peter to let down the nets for a catch, and the miraculous catch follows. Peter, the Pope, is the "fisher of men."
Luke 7:40-50- Jesus addresses Peter regarding the rule of forgiveness and Peter answers on behalf of the disciples. Jesus also singles Peter out and judges his conduct vis-*-vis the conduct of the woman who anointed Him.
Luke 8:45 - when Jesus asked who touched His garment, it is Peter who answers on behalf of the disciples.
Luke 8:51; 9:28; 22:8; Acts 1:13; 3:1,3,11; 4:13,19; 8:14 - Peter is always mentioned before John, the disciple whom Jesus loved.
Luke 9:28;33 - Peter is mentioned first as going to mountain of transfiguration and the only one to speak at the transfiguration.
Luke 12:41 - Peter seeks clarification of a parable on behalf on the disciples. This is part of Peter's formation as the chief shepherd of the flock after Jesus ascended into heaven.
Luke 22:31-32 - Jesus prays for Peter alone, that his faith may not fail, and charges him to strengthen the rest of the apostles.
Luke 24:12, John 20:4-6 - John arrived at the tomb first but stopped and waited for Peter. Peter then arrived and entered the tomb first.
Luke 24:34 - the two disciples distinguish Peter even though they both had seen the risen Jesus the previous hour. See Luke 24:33.
John 6:68 - after the disciples leave, Peter is the first to speak and confess his belief in Christ after the Eucharistic discourse.
John 13:6-9 - Peter speaks out to the Lord in front of the apostles concerning the washing of feet.
John 13:36; 21:18 - Jesus predicts Peter's death. Peter was martyred at Rome in 67 A.D. Several hundred years of papal successors were also martyred.
John 21:2-3,11 - Peter leads the fishing and his net does not break. The boat (the "barque of Peter") is a metaphor for the Church.
John 21:7 - only Peter got out of the boat and ran to the shore to meet Jesus. Peter is the earthly shepherd leading us to God.
John 21:15 - in front of the apostles, Jesus asks Peter if he loves Jesus "more than these," which refers to the other apostles. Peter is the head of the apostolic see.
John 21:15-17 - Jesus charges Peter to "feed my lambs," "tend my sheep," "feed my sheep." Sheep means all people, even the apostles.
Acts 1:13 - Peter is first when entering upper room after our Lord's ascension. The first Eucharist and Pentecost were given in this room.
Acts 1:15 - Peter initiates the selection of a successor to Judas right after Jesus ascended into heaven, and no one questions him. Further, if the Church needed a successor to Judas, wouldn't it need one to Peter? Of course.
Acts 2:14 - Peter is first to speak for the apostles after the Holy Spirit descended upon them at Pentecost. Peter is the first to preach the Gospel.
Acts 2:38 - Peter gives first preaching in the early Church on repentance and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.
Acts 3:1,3,4 - Peter is mentioned first as going to the Temple to pray.
Acts 3:6-7 - Peter works the first healing of the apostles.
Acts 3:12-26, 4:8-12 - Peter teaches the early Church the healing through Jesus and that there is no salvation other than Christ.
Acts 5:3 - Peter declares the first anathema of Ananias and Sapphira which is ratified by God, and brings about their death. Peter exercises his binding authority.
Acts 5:15 - Peter's shadow has healing power. No other apostle is said to have this power.
Acts 8:14 - Peter is mentioned first in conferring the sacrament of confirmation.
Acts 8:20-23 - Peter casts judgment on Simon's quest for gaining authority through the laying on of hands. Peter exercises his binding and loosing authority.
Acts 9:32-34 - Peter is mentioned first among the apostles and works the healing of Aeneas.
Acts 9:38-40 - Peter is mentioned first among the apostles and raises Tabitha from the dead.
Acts 10:5 - Cornelius is told by an angel to call upon Peter. Angels are messengers of God. Peter was granted this divine vision.
Acts 10:34-48, 11:1-18 - Peter is first to teach about salvation for all (Jews and Gentiles).
Acts 12:5 - this verse implies that the "whole Church" offered "earnest prayers" for Peter, their leader, during his imprisonment.
Acts 12:6-11 - Peter is freed from jail by an angel. He is the first object of divine intervention in the early Church.
Acts 15:7-12 - Peter resolves the first doctrinal issue on circumcision at the Church's first council at Jerusalem, and no one questions him. After Peter the Papa spoke, all were kept silent.
Acts 15:12 - only after Peter (the Pope) speaks do Paul and Barnabas (bishops) speak in support of Peter's definitive teaching.
Acts 15:13-14 - then James speaks to further acknowledge Peter's definitive teaching. "Simeon (Peter) has related how God first visited..."
Rom. 15:20 - Paul says he doesn't want to build on "another man's foundation" referring to Peter, who built the Church in Rome.
1 Cor. 9:5 – Peter is distinguished from the rest of the apostles and brethren of the Lord.
1 Cor. 15:4-8 - Paul distinguishes Jesus' post-resurrection appearances to Peter from those of the other apostles. Christ appeared “to Cephas, then to the twelve.”
Gal.1:18 - Paul spends fifteen days with Peter privately before beginning his ministry, even after Christ's Revelation to Paul.
1 Peter 5:1 - Peter acts as the chief bishop by "exhorting" all the other bishops and elders of the Church.
1 Peter 5:13 - Some Protestants argue against the Papacy by trying to prove Peter was never in Rome. First, this argument is irrelevant to whether Jesus instituted the Papacy. Secondly, this verse demonstrates that Peter was in fact in Rome. Peter writes from "Babylon" which was a code name for Rome during these days of persecution. See, for example, Rev. 14:8, 16:19, 17:5, 18:2,10,21, which show that "Babylon" meant Rome. Rome was the "great city" of the New Testament period. Because Rome during this age was considered the center of the world, the Lord wanted His Church to be established in Rome.
2 Peter 1:14 - Peter writes about Jesus' prediction of Peter's death, embracing the eventual martyrdom that he would suffer.
2 Peter 3:16 - Peter is making a judgment on the proper interpretation of Paul's letters. Peter is the chief shepherd of the flock.
Matt. 23:11; Mark 9:35; 10:44 - yet Peter, as the first, humbled himself to be the last and servant of all servants.
I'll also take this opportunity to say that Catholics do not believe the Pope to be infallible in all his pronouncements.
The papal doctrine of infallibility applies only to formal statements of religious instruction in matters of faith and morals when he is speaking with the authority given to him as universal pastor to all the faithful.
It has been used very rarely indeed. It is the religious equivalent of stating that the Supreme Court's decision in a case is legally binding
ari89
MOSSAD Deputy Director
robbie1 said:I see the issue here is apostolic succession.
Well....its a shame you and your church disragard it because it is what Christ instituted.
He also founded his Church on a 'rock'....Peter (the first Pope). This is the issue I should have started with.
Matt. to Rev. - Peter is mentioned 155 times and the rest of apostles combined are only mentioned 130 times. Peter is also always listed first except in 1 Cor. 3:22 and Gal. 2:9 (which are obvious exceptions to the rule).
Matt. 10:2; Mark 1:36; 3:16; Luke 6:14-16; Acts 1:3; 2:37; 5:29 - these are some of many examples where Peter is mentioned first among the apostles.
Matt. 14:28-29 - only Peter has the faith to walk on water. No other man in Scripture is said to have the faith to walk on water. This faith ultimately did not fail.
Matt. 16:16, Mark 8:29; John 6:69 - Peter is first among the apostles to confess the divinity of Christ.
Matt. 16:17 - Peter alone is told he has received divine knowledge by a special revelation from God the Father.
Matt. 16:18 - Jesus builds the Church only on Peter, the rock, with the other apostles as the foundation and Jesus as the Head.
Matt. 16:19 - only Peter receives the keys, which represent authority over the Church and facilitate dynastic succession to his authority.
Matt. 17:24-25 - the tax collector approaches Peter for Jesus' tax. Peter is the spokesman for Jesus. He is the Vicar of Christ.
Matt. 17:26-27 - Jesus pays the half-shekel tax with one shekel, for both Jesus and Peter. Peter is Christ's representative on earth.
Matt. 18:21 - in the presence of the disciples, Peter asks Jesus about the rule of forgiveness. One of many examples where Peter takes a leadership role among the apostles in understanding Jesus' teachings.
Matt. 19:27 - Peter speaks on behalf of the apostles by telling Jesus that they have left everything to follow Him.
Mark 10:28 - here also, Peter speaks on behalf of the disciples by declaring that they have left everything to follow Him.
Mark 11:21 - Peter speaks on behalf of the disciples in remembering Jesus' curse on the fig tree.
Mark 14:37 - at Gethsemane, Jesus asks Peter, and no one else, why he was asleep. Peter is accountable to Jesus for his actions on behalf of the apostles because he has been appointed by Jesus as their leader.
Mark 16:7 - Peter is specified by an angel as the leader of the apostles as the angel confirms the resurrection of Christ.
Luke 5:3 – Jesus teaches from Peter’s boat which is metaphor for the Church. Jesus guides Peter and the Church into all truth.
Luke 5:4,10 - Jesus instructs Peter to let down the nets for a catch, and the miraculous catch follows. Peter, the Pope, is the "fisher of men."
Luke 7:40-50- Jesus addresses Peter regarding the rule of forgiveness and Peter answers on behalf of the disciples. Jesus also singles Peter out and judges his conduct vis-�*-vis the conduct of the woman who anointed Him.
Luke 8:45 - when Jesus asked who touched His garment, it is Peter who answers on behalf of the disciples.
Luke 8:51; 9:28; 22:8; Acts 1:13; 3:1,3,11; 4:13,19; 8:14 - Peter is always mentioned before John, the disciple whom Jesus loved.
Luke 9:28;33 - Peter is mentioned first as going to mountain of transfiguration and the only one to speak at the transfiguration.
Luke 12:41 - Peter seeks clarification of a parable on behalf on the disciples. This is part of Peter's formation as the chief shepherd of the flock after Jesus ascended into heaven.
Luke 22:31-32 - Jesus prays for Peter alone, that his faith may not fail, and charges him to strengthen the rest of the apostles.
Luke 24:12, John 20:4-6 - John arrived at the tomb first but stopped and waited for Peter. Peter then arrived and entered the tomb first.
Luke 24:34 - the two disciples distinguish Peter even though they both had seen the risen Jesus the previous hour. See Luke 24:33.
John 6:68 - after the disciples leave, Peter is the first to speak and confess his belief in Christ after the Eucharistic discourse.
John 13:6-9 - Peter speaks out to the Lord in front of the apostles concerning the washing of feet.
John 13:36; 21:18 - Jesus predicts Peter's death. Peter was martyred at Rome in 67 A.D. Several hundred years of papal successors were also martyred.
John 21:2-3,11 - Peter leads the fishing and his net does not break. The boat (the "barque of Peter") is a metaphor for the Church.
John 21:7 - only Peter got out of the boat and ran to the shore to meet Jesus. Peter is the earthly shepherd leading us to God.
John 21:15 - in front of the apostles, Jesus asks Peter if he loves Jesus "more than these," which refers to the other apostles. Peter is the head of the apostolic see.
John 21:15-17 - Jesus charges Peter to "feed my lambs," "tend my sheep," "feed my sheep." Sheep means all people, even the apostles.
Acts 1:13 - Peter is first when entering upper room after our Lord's ascension. The first Eucharist and Pentecost were given in this room.
Acts 1:15 - Peter initiates the selection of a successor to Judas right after Jesus ascended into heaven, and no one questions him. Further, if the Church needed a successor to Judas, wouldn't it need one to Peter? Of course.
Acts 2:14 - Peter is first to speak for the apostles after the Holy Spirit descended upon them at Pentecost. Peter is the first to preach the Gospel.
Acts 2:38 - Peter gives first preaching in the early Church on repentance and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.
Acts 3:1,3,4 - Peter is mentioned first as going to the Temple to pray.
Acts 3:6-7 - Peter works the first healing of the apostles.
Acts 3:12-26, 4:8-12 - Peter teaches the early Church the healing through Jesus and that there is no salvation other than Christ.
Acts 5:3 - Peter declares the first anathema of Ananias and Sapphira which is ratified by God, and brings about their death. Peter exercises his binding authority.
Acts 5:15 - Peter's shadow has healing power. No other apostle is said to have this power.
Acts 8:14 - Peter is mentioned first in conferring the sacrament of confirmation.
Acts 8:20-23 - Peter casts judgment on Simon's quest for gaining authority through the laying on of hands. Peter exercises his binding and loosing authority.
Acts 9:32-34 - Peter is mentioned first among the apostles and works the healing of Aeneas.
Acts 9:38-40 - Peter is mentioned first among the apostles and raises Tabitha from the dead.
Acts 10:5 - Cornelius is told by an angel to call upon Peter. Angels are messengers of God. Peter was granted this divine vision.
Acts 10:34-48, 11:1-18 - Peter is first to teach about salvation for all (Jews and Gentiles).
Acts 12:5 - this verse implies that the "whole Church" offered "earnest prayers" for Peter, their leader, during his imprisonment.
Acts 12:6-11 - Peter is freed from jail by an angel. He is the first object of divine intervention in the early Church.
Acts 15:7-12 - Peter resolves the first doctrinal issue on circumcision at the Church's first council at Jerusalem, and no one questions him. After Peter the Papa spoke, all were kept silent.
Acts 15:12 - only after Peter (the Pope) speaks do Paul and Barnabas (bishops) speak in support of Peter's definitive teaching.
Acts 15:13-14 - then James speaks to further acknowledge Peter's definitive teaching. "Simeon (Peter) has related how God first visited..."
Rom. 15:20 - Paul says he doesn't want to build on "another man's foundation" referring to Peter, who built the Church in Rome.
1 Cor. 9:5 – Peter is distinguished from the rest of the apostles and brethren of the Lord.
1 Cor. 15:4-8 - Paul distinguishes Jesus' post-resurrection appearances to Peter from those of the other apostles. Christ appeared “to Cephas, then to the twelve.”
Gal.1:18 - Paul spends fifteen days with Peter privately before beginning his ministry, even after Christ's Revelation to Paul.
1 Peter 5:1 - Peter acts as the chief bishop by "exhorting" all the other bishops and elders of the Church.
1 Peter 5:13 - Some Protestants argue against the Papacy by trying to prove Peter was never in Rome. First, this argument is irrelevant to whether Jesus instituted the Papacy. Secondly, this verse demonstrates that Peter was in fact in Rome. Peter writes from "Babylon" which was a code name for Rome during these days of persecution. See, for example, Rev. 14:8, 16:19, 17:5, 18:2,10,21, which show that "Babylon" meant Rome. Rome was the "great city" of the New Testament period. Because Rome during this age was considered the center of the world, the Lord wanted His Church to be established in Rome.
2 Peter 1:14 - Peter writes about Jesus' prediction of Peter's death, embracing the eventual martyrdom that he would suffer.
2 Peter 3:16 - Peter is making a judgment on the proper interpretation of Paul's letters. Peter is the chief shepherd of the flock.
Matt. 23:11; Mark 9:35; 10:44 - yet Peter, as the first, humbled himself to be the last and servant of all servants.
I'll also take this opportunity to say that Catholics do not believe the Pope to be infallible in all his pronouncements.
The papal doctrine of infallibility applies only to formal statements of religious instruction in matters of faith and morals when he is speaking with the authority given to him as universal pastor to all the faithful.
It has been used very rarely indeed. It is the religious equivalent of stating that the Supreme Court's decision in a case is legally binding
Sorry your post confuses me. What is it in relation to?
*posts multiple verses on Peter*
Edit: the law parallel makes no sense? So who is the HCA that can ignore the Pope's decisions? How do we appeal to his injustice? And who represents the parliament that can legislate to override case law?
Last edited:
ari89
MOSSAD Deputy Director
Genesis 1:1 - In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Genesis 1:2 - The earth was formless and empty, and darkness covered the deep waters. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters.
Genesis 1:3 - Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.
Genesis 1:4 - And God saw that the light was good. Then he separated the light from the darkness.
Genesis 1:5 - God called the light "day" and the darkness "night."And evening passed and morning came, marking the first day.
Genesis 1:6 - Then God said, “Let there be a space between the waters, to separate the waters of the heavens from the waters of the earth.”
Genesis 1:7 - And that is what happened. God made this space to separate the waters of the earth from the waters of the heavens.
Genesis 1:8 - God called the space “sky.”And evening passed and morning came, marking the second day.
Genesis 1:9 - Then God said, “Let the waters beneath the sky flow together into one place, so dry ground may appear.” And that is what happened.
Genesis 1:10 - God called the dry ground “land” and the waters “seas.” And God saw that it was good.
Genesis 1:11 - Then God said, “Let the land sprout with vegetation—every sort of seed-bearing plant, and trees that grow seed-bearing fruit. These seeds will then produce the kinds of plants and trees from which they came.” And that is what happened.
Genesis 1:12 - The land produced vegetation—all sorts of seed-bearing plants, and trees with seed-bearing fruit. Their seeds produced plants and trees of the same kind. And God saw that it was good.
Genesis 1:14 - Then God said, “Let lights appear in the sky to separate the day from the night. Let them mark off the seasons, days, and years.
Genesis 1:16 - God made two great lights—the larger one to govern the day, and the smaller one to govern the night. He also made the stars.
Genesis 1:17 - God set these lights in the sky to light the earth,
Genesis 1:18 - to govern the day and night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good.
Genesis 1:20 - Then God said, “Let the waters swarm with fish and other life. Let the skies be filled with birds of every kind.”
See, you're not the only one who can post random verses with the same recurring theme.
Genesis 1:2 - The earth was formless and empty, and darkness covered the deep waters. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters.
Genesis 1:3 - Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.
Genesis 1:4 - And God saw that the light was good. Then he separated the light from the darkness.
Genesis 1:5 - God called the light "day" and the darkness "night."And evening passed and morning came, marking the first day.
Genesis 1:6 - Then God said, “Let there be a space between the waters, to separate the waters of the heavens from the waters of the earth.”
Genesis 1:7 - And that is what happened. God made this space to separate the waters of the earth from the waters of the heavens.
Genesis 1:8 - God called the space “sky.”And evening passed and morning came, marking the second day.
Genesis 1:9 - Then God said, “Let the waters beneath the sky flow together into one place, so dry ground may appear.” And that is what happened.
Genesis 1:10 - God called the dry ground “land” and the waters “seas.” And God saw that it was good.
Genesis 1:11 - Then God said, “Let the land sprout with vegetation—every sort of seed-bearing plant, and trees that grow seed-bearing fruit. These seeds will then produce the kinds of plants and trees from which they came.” And that is what happened.
Genesis 1:12 - The land produced vegetation—all sorts of seed-bearing plants, and trees with seed-bearing fruit. Their seeds produced plants and trees of the same kind. And God saw that it was good.
Genesis 1:14 - Then God said, “Let lights appear in the sky to separate the day from the night. Let them mark off the seasons, days, and years.
Genesis 1:16 - God made two great lights—the larger one to govern the day, and the smaller one to govern the night. He also made the stars.
Genesis 1:17 - God set these lights in the sky to light the earth,
Genesis 1:18 - to govern the day and night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good.
Genesis 1:20 - Then God said, “Let the waters swarm with fish and other life. Let the skies be filled with birds of every kind.”
See, you're not the only one who can post random verses with the same recurring theme.
robbie1
Member
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2005
- Messages
- 405
- Gender
- Male
- HSC
- 2005
Would you like to point out to me where I said I was better than everyone else?
Again I refer you to my sig....seems you ignored me last time.
Also, if you haven't realised, you're the one being rude here, not me......lets see what did you call me again....."an embarassment"......remember that?
Did you expect me to retaliate in the same way and go down to your level?......my parents, and my Church, taught me better than that. Im not sure what exactly your "church" teaches you about how to treat your fellow human beings.
Now back to the issue:
One more time I will tell you:
Matt. 16:18 - Jesus builds the Church only on Peter, the rock, with the other apostles as the foundation and Jesus as the Head. This is the origin of the Papacy. "You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it"
We also see this in John 21:18 where Jesus makes Peter the chief shepherd of the Church when He says to him, "Feed my sheep."
There is overwhelming historical evidence that Peter went to Rome, and was Bishop of Rome. He was martyred there in 64 or 67 A.D. and was succeeded as Bishop of Rome by Linus, who had been ordained by Peter. The Apostle John was still alive in Ephesus (in modern day Turkey). John would have been the logical successor to Peter as head of the Church, but he never claimed that position. About ten years later, Anacletus (Cletus) succeeded Linus. Clement I followed him around 90 A.D. John the Apostle was still alive, but still did not put himself as head of the Church.
In 96 A.D., Clement I, Bishop of Rome, wrote a letter to the Christian Church in Corinth. This is the first Christian document that we have outside of the New Testament. It was preserved for centuries with great care, and was frequently read. The letter is of tremendous importance because it shows that the successors of St. Peter as Bishop of Rome had authority over the whole Church. The letter was written to settle disputes which had arisen among the Christians in Corinth. Clement knew Peter personally and mentioned his martyrdom in Rome as a fact to all Christians. He then writes about the apostolic succession:
"The apostles preached the gospel to us from the Lord Jesus Christ. Christ, therefore, is from God, and the apostles are from Christ... as they (the apostles) preached, therefore, in the countryside and in the cities, they appointed their first fruits - and having tested them through the Spirit - to be bishops and deacons of the future believers."
He goes on to warn the Corinthians about the dangers of friction among themselves, and then ends his warning with this very important sentence.
"If some shall disobey the words which have been spoken by Him (Christ) through us (Clement) let them know that they will involve themselves in no small transgression and danger."
This is a clear statement that the Bishop of Rome has the authority from God over the Church at Corinth, and to disobey him in a Church matter would be a serious sin, even though they had a local bishop.
Also, the fact that the Corinthians preserved this letter and read it frequently on Sundays shows that they accepted Clement's authority over them. Something else can be pointed out also. The language in Corinth was Greek. Rome was Latin-speaking. Normally, no one from the West would have authority in the East - but Clement's authority was accepted. It was accepted because he was the successor of St. Peter and head of the whole Church. All this happened before the death of many who knew St. Peter in Rome. They knew what Peter taught, and how he was accepted by Christians as holding the keys to the kingdom of heaven which Jesus Christ had given to him. They accepted Peter as the chief of the Apostles, and they accepted the Bishop of Rome as successor of Peter and Chief Bishop.
Oh btw since you're sceptical about tradition:
Mark 13:31 - heaven and earth will pass away, but Jesus' Word will not pass away. But Jesus never says anything about His Word being entirely committed to a book. Also, it took 400 years to compile the Bible, and another 1,000 years to invent the printing press. How was the Word of God communicated? Orally, by the bishops of the Church, with the guidance and protection of the Holy Spirit.
Mark 16:15 - Jesus commands the apostles to preach the Gospel to every creature. But Jesus did not want this preaching to stop after the apostles died, and yet the Bible was not compiled until four centuries later. The word of God was transferred orally.
Again I refer you to my sig....seems you ignored me last time.
Also, if you haven't realised, you're the one being rude here, not me......lets see what did you call me again....."an embarassment"......remember that?
Did you expect me to retaliate in the same way and go down to your level?......my parents, and my Church, taught me better than that. Im not sure what exactly your "church" teaches you about how to treat your fellow human beings.
Now back to the issue:
One more time I will tell you:
Matt. 16:18 - Jesus builds the Church only on Peter, the rock, with the other apostles as the foundation and Jesus as the Head. This is the origin of the Papacy. "You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it"
We also see this in John 21:18 where Jesus makes Peter the chief shepherd of the Church when He says to him, "Feed my sheep."
There is overwhelming historical evidence that Peter went to Rome, and was Bishop of Rome. He was martyred there in 64 or 67 A.D. and was succeeded as Bishop of Rome by Linus, who had been ordained by Peter. The Apostle John was still alive in Ephesus (in modern day Turkey). John would have been the logical successor to Peter as head of the Church, but he never claimed that position. About ten years later, Anacletus (Cletus) succeeded Linus. Clement I followed him around 90 A.D. John the Apostle was still alive, but still did not put himself as head of the Church.
In 96 A.D., Clement I, Bishop of Rome, wrote a letter to the Christian Church in Corinth. This is the first Christian document that we have outside of the New Testament. It was preserved for centuries with great care, and was frequently read. The letter is of tremendous importance because it shows that the successors of St. Peter as Bishop of Rome had authority over the whole Church. The letter was written to settle disputes which had arisen among the Christians in Corinth. Clement knew Peter personally and mentioned his martyrdom in Rome as a fact to all Christians. He then writes about the apostolic succession:
"The apostles preached the gospel to us from the Lord Jesus Christ. Christ, therefore, is from God, and the apostles are from Christ... as they (the apostles) preached, therefore, in the countryside and in the cities, they appointed their first fruits - and having tested them through the Spirit - to be bishops and deacons of the future believers."
He goes on to warn the Corinthians about the dangers of friction among themselves, and then ends his warning with this very important sentence.
"If some shall disobey the words which have been spoken by Him (Christ) through us (Clement) let them know that they will involve themselves in no small transgression and danger."
This is a clear statement that the Bishop of Rome has the authority from God over the Church at Corinth, and to disobey him in a Church matter would be a serious sin, even though they had a local bishop.
Also, the fact that the Corinthians preserved this letter and read it frequently on Sundays shows that they accepted Clement's authority over them. Something else can be pointed out also. The language in Corinth was Greek. Rome was Latin-speaking. Normally, no one from the West would have authority in the East - but Clement's authority was accepted. It was accepted because he was the successor of St. Peter and head of the whole Church. All this happened before the death of many who knew St. Peter in Rome. They knew what Peter taught, and how he was accepted by Christians as holding the keys to the kingdom of heaven which Jesus Christ had given to him. They accepted Peter as the chief of the Apostles, and they accepted the Bishop of Rome as successor of Peter and Chief Bishop.
Oh btw since you're sceptical about tradition:
Mark 13:31 - heaven and earth will pass away, but Jesus' Word will not pass away. But Jesus never says anything about His Word being entirely committed to a book. Also, it took 400 years to compile the Bible, and another 1,000 years to invent the printing press. How was the Word of God communicated? Orally, by the bishops of the Church, with the guidance and protection of the Holy Spirit.
Mark 16:15 - Jesus commands the apostles to preach the Gospel to every creature. But Jesus did not want this preaching to stop after the apostles died, and yet the Bible was not compiled until four centuries later. The word of God was transferred orally.
Last edited:
ari89
MOSSAD Deputy Director
Would you like to point out to me where I said I was better than everyone else? [Its called an unjustified smug attitude (lol, sound familiar?)]
Again I refer you to my sig....seems you ignored me last time. [I didn't ignore you, I lamented at your hypocrisy]
Also, if you haven't realised, you're the one being rude here, not me......lets see what did you call me again....."an embarassment"......remember that? [You were an embarrassment and you continue to be which is directly in conflict with your sig. If you don't know find the answer out from a priest who knows not a website posted randomly without context.]
Did you expect me to retaliate in the same way and go down to your level?......my parents, and my Church, taught me better than that. Im not sure what exactly your "church" teaches you about how to treat your fellow human beings. [You are currently retaliating. This is what we call a hilarious attempt and attacking my personal situation however it is fruitless and an unjustified (also pointless) act where you ironically contradict yourself once again.]
Now back to the issue: [You never are on the issue. You continually break off onto an irrelevant tangent.]
One more time I will tell you: [lol, tell]
Matt. 16:18 - Jesus builds the Church only on Peter, the rock, with the other apostles as the foundation and Jesus as the Head. This is the origin of the Papacy. "You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it" [Woo the Church was built on Peter...I've read it many a time as emphasised through your continual posting of it. Please explain the relevance of it being posted.]
We also see this in John 21:18 where Jesus makes Peter the chief shepherd of the Church when He says to him, "Feed my sheep." [and...]
There is overwhelming historical evidence that Peter went to Rome, and was Bishop of Rome. He was martyred there in 64 or 67 A.D. and was succeeded as Bishop of Rome by Linus, who had been ordained by Peter. The Apostle John was still alive in Ephesus (in modern day Turkey). John would have been the logical successor to Peter as head of the Church, but he never claimed that position. About ten years later, Anacletus (Cletus) succeeded Linus. Clement I followed him around 90 A.D. John the Apostle was still alive, but still did not put himself as head of the Church. [Isn't that great (no I'm not being ironic, Thomas)]
In 96 A.D., Clement I, Bishop of Rome, wrote a letter to the Christian Church in Corinth. This is the first Christian document that we have outside of the New Testament. It was preserved for centuries with great care, and was frequently read. The letter is of tremendous importance because it shows that the successors of St. Peter as Bishop of Rome had authority over the whole Church. The letter was written to settle disputes which had arisen among the Christians in Corinth. Clement knew Peter personally and mentioned his martyrdom in Rome as a fact to all Christians. He then writes about the apostolic succession:
"The apostles preached the gospel to us from the Lord Jesus Christ. Christ, therefore, is from God, and the apostles are from Christ... as they (the apostles) preached, therefore, in the countryside and in the cities, they appointed their first fruits - and having tested them through the Spirit - to be bishops and deacons of the future believers." [Sounds good. Not being overly skeptical but can you help me find a copy of it because the quoted fragments joined together can be manipulated as quite a few of your quotes (if not all) have been.]
He goes on to warn the Corinthians about the dangers of friction among themselves, and then ends his warning with this very important sentence.
"If some shall disobey the words which have been spoken by Him (Christ) through us (Clement) let them know that they will involve themselves in no small transgression and danger." [Refer to above]
This is a clear statement that the Bishop of Rome has the authority from God over the Church at Corinth, and to disobey him in a Church matter would be a serious sin, even though they had a local bishop.
Also, the fact that the Corinthians preserved this letter and read it frequently on Sundays shows that they accepted Clement's authority over them. Something else can be pointed out also. The language in Corinth was Greek. Rome was Latin-speaking. Normally, no one from the West would have authority in the East - but Clement's authority was accepted. It was accepted because he was the successor of St. Peter and head of the whole Church. All this happened before the death of many who knew St. Peter in Rome. They knew what Peter taught, and how he was accepted by Christians as holding the keys to the kingdom of heaven which Jesus Christ had given to him. They accepted Peter as the chief of the Apostles, and they accepted the Bishop of Rome as successor of Peter and Chief Bishop.
Oh btw since you're sceptical about tradition:
Mark 13:31 - heaven and earth will pass away, but Jesus' Word will not pass away. But Jesus never says anything about His Word being entirely committed to a book. Also, it took 400 years to compile the Bible, and another 1,000 years to invent the printing press. How was the Word of God communicated? Orally, by the bishops of the Church, with the guidance and protection of the Holy Spirit. [There is no connection here between the verse and the commentary in relation to tradition, "Heaven and earth will disappear, but my words will never disappear."]
Mark 16:15 - Jesus commands the apostles to preach the Gospel to every creature. But Jesus did not want this preaching to stop after the apostles died, and yet the Bible was not compiled until four centuries later. The word of God was transferred orally.[As above. How is it related to tradition? However, its great that the Catholic church broke its tradition of persecuting laymen spreading and reading the bible.]
Edit: You once again ignored everything I said so take the step to be humble as opposed to simply claiming it.
Edit Edit: I am surprised that you have not referred me to places such as consideration of the religious denomination of Nestorius (5th Century) or the Third Ecumenical Synod (431) yet...
(lol, sound familiar?)]Again I refer you to my sig....seems you ignored me last time. [I didn't ignore you, I lamented at your hypocrisy]
Also, if you haven't realised, you're the one being rude here, not me......lets see what did you call me again....."an embarassment"......remember that? [You were an embarrassment and you continue to be which is directly in conflict with your sig. If you don't know find the answer out from a priest who knows not a website posted randomly without context.]
Did you expect me to retaliate in the same way and go down to your level?......my parents, and my Church, taught me better than that. Im not sure what exactly your "church" teaches you about how to treat your fellow human beings. [You are currently retaliating. This is what we call a hilarious attempt and attacking my personal situation however it is fruitless and an unjustified (also pointless) act where you ironically contradict yourself once again.]
Now back to the issue: [You never are on the issue. You continually break off onto an irrelevant tangent.]
One more time I will tell you: [lol, tell]
Matt. 16:18 - Jesus builds the Church only on Peter, the rock, with the other apostles as the foundation and Jesus as the Head. This is the origin of the Papacy. "You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it" [Woo the Church was built on Peter...I've read it many a time as emphasised through your continual posting of it. Please explain the relevance of it being posted.]
We also see this in John 21:18 where Jesus makes Peter the chief shepherd of the Church when He says to him, "Feed my sheep." [and...]
There is overwhelming historical evidence that Peter went to Rome, and was Bishop of Rome. He was martyred there in 64 or 67 A.D. and was succeeded as Bishop of Rome by Linus, who had been ordained by Peter. The Apostle John was still alive in Ephesus (in modern day Turkey). John would have been the logical successor to Peter as head of the Church, but he never claimed that position. About ten years later, Anacletus (Cletus) succeeded Linus. Clement I followed him around 90 A.D. John the Apostle was still alive, but still did not put himself as head of the Church. [Isn't that great (no I'm not being ironic, Thomas)]
In 96 A.D., Clement I, Bishop of Rome, wrote a letter to the Christian Church in Corinth. This is the first Christian document that we have outside of the New Testament. It was preserved for centuries with great care, and was frequently read. The letter is of tremendous importance because it shows that the successors of St. Peter as Bishop of Rome had authority over the whole Church. The letter was written to settle disputes which had arisen among the Christians in Corinth. Clement knew Peter personally and mentioned his martyrdom in Rome as a fact to all Christians. He then writes about the apostolic succession:
"The apostles preached the gospel to us from the Lord Jesus Christ. Christ, therefore, is from God, and the apostles are from Christ... as they (the apostles) preached, therefore, in the countryside and in the cities, they appointed their first fruits - and having tested them through the Spirit - to be bishops and deacons of the future believers." [Sounds good. Not being overly skeptical but can you help me find a copy of it because the quoted fragments joined together can be manipulated as quite a few of your quotes (if not all) have been.]
He goes on to warn the Corinthians about the dangers of friction among themselves, and then ends his warning with this very important sentence.
"If some shall disobey the words which have been spoken by Him (Christ) through us (Clement) let them know that they will involve themselves in no small transgression and danger." [Refer to above]
This is a clear statement that the Bishop of Rome has the authority from God over the Church at Corinth, and to disobey him in a Church matter would be a serious sin, even though they had a local bishop.
Also, the fact that the Corinthians preserved this letter and read it frequently on Sundays shows that they accepted Clement's authority over them. Something else can be pointed out also. The language in Corinth was Greek. Rome was Latin-speaking. Normally, no one from the West would have authority in the East - but Clement's authority was accepted. It was accepted because he was the successor of St. Peter and head of the whole Church. All this happened before the death of many who knew St. Peter in Rome. They knew what Peter taught, and how he was accepted by Christians as holding the keys to the kingdom of heaven which Jesus Christ had given to him. They accepted Peter as the chief of the Apostles, and they accepted the Bishop of Rome as successor of Peter and Chief Bishop.
Oh btw since you're sceptical about tradition:
Mark 13:31 - heaven and earth will pass away, but Jesus' Word will not pass away. But Jesus never says anything about His Word being entirely committed to a book. Also, it took 400 years to compile the Bible, and another 1,000 years to invent the printing press. How was the Word of God communicated? Orally, by the bishops of the Church, with the guidance and protection of the Holy Spirit. [There is no connection here between the verse and the commentary in relation to tradition, "Heaven and earth will disappear, but my words will never disappear."]
Mark 16:15 - Jesus commands the apostles to preach the Gospel to every creature. But Jesus did not want this preaching to stop after the apostles died, and yet the Bible was not compiled until four centuries later. The word of God was transferred orally.[As above. How is it related to tradition? However, its great that the Catholic church broke its tradition of persecuting laymen spreading and reading the bible.]
Edit: You once again ignored everything I said so take the step to be humble as opposed to simply claiming it.
Edit Edit: I am surprised that you have not referred me to places such as consideration of the religious denomination of Nestorius (5th Century) or the Third Ecumenical Synod (431) yet...
Last edited:
robbie1
Member
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2005
- Messages
- 405
- Gender
- Male
- HSC
- 2005
I referred you to Christ himself and showed you how He wanted His Church to be built on a leader, an authority figure, yet you still refuse to believe. Thats your problem, not mine
Now to our Blessed Mother Mary. I know what your response is going to be, so again I tell you its your problem. Your loss. Do you think Jesus would refuse anything his Mother asks him? He gave Mary to us to be our Mother and she intercedes for us.
I'll just tell you a little joke quickly. In heaven, Jesus went to St Peter and said:
"Why are you letting so many people in? Heaven is overflowing!"
St Peter replied, "Lord, I locked the gates, but your Mother keeps opening the windows and letting people in."
Now back to business:
John 19:26 - Jesus makes Mary the Mother of us all as He dies on the Cross by saying "behold your mother." Jesus did not say "John, behold your mother" because he gave Mary to all of us, his beloved disciples. All the words that Jesus spoke on Cross had a divine purpose. Jesus was not just telling John to take care of his mother.
Rev. 12:17 - this verse proves the meaning of John 19:26. The "woman's" (Mary's) offspring are those who follow Jesus. She is our Mother and we are her offspring in Jesus Christ. The master plan of God's covenant love for us is family. But we cannot be a complete family with the Fatherhood of God and the Brotherhood of Christ without the Motherhood of Mary.
John 2:3 - this is a very signifcant verse in Scripture. As our mother, Mary tells all of us to do whatever Jesus tells us. Further, Mary's intercession at the marriage feast in Cana triggers Jesus' ministry and a foreshadowing of the Eucharistic celebration of the Lamb. This celebration unites all believers into one famiy through the marriage of divinity and humanity.
John 2:7 - Jesus allows His mother to intercede for the people on His behalf, and responds to His mother's request by ordering the servants to fill the jars with water.
Psalm 45:9 - the psalmist teaches that the Queen stands at the right hand of God. The role of the Queen is important in God's kingdom. Mary the Queen of heaven is at the right hand of the Son of God.
1 Kings 2:17, 20 - in the Old Testament Davidic kingdom, the King does not refuse his mother. Jesus is the new Davidic King, and He does not refuse the requests of his mother Mary, the Queen.
1 Kings 2:18 - in the Old Testament Davidic kingdom, the Queen intercedes on behalf of the King's followers. She is the Queen Mother (or "Gebirah"). Mary is our eternal Gebirah.
1 Kings 2:19 - in the Old Testament Davidic kingdom the King bows down to his mother and she sits at his right hand. We, as children of the New Covenant, should imitate our King and pay the same homage to Mary our Mother. By honoring Mary, we honor our King, Jesus Christ.
1 Kings 15:13 - the Queen Mother is a powerful position in Israel's royal monarchy. Here the Queen is removed from office. But now, the Davidic kingdom is perfected by Jesus, and our Mother Mary is forever at His right hand.
2 Chron. 22:10 - here Queen Mother Athalia destroys the royal family of Judah after she sees her son, King Ahaziah, dead. The Queen mother plays a significant role in the kingdom.
Neh. 2:6 - the Queen Mother sits beside the King. She is the primary intercessor before the King.
May the peace of Christ be with you always
Now to our Blessed Mother Mary. I know what your response is going to be, so again I tell you its your problem. Your loss. Do you think Jesus would refuse anything his Mother asks him? He gave Mary to us to be our Mother and she intercedes for us.
I'll just tell you a little joke quickly. In heaven, Jesus went to St Peter and said:
"Why are you letting so many people in? Heaven is overflowing!"
St Peter replied, "Lord, I locked the gates, but your Mother keeps opening the windows and letting people in."
Now back to business:
John 19:26 - Jesus makes Mary the Mother of us all as He dies on the Cross by saying "behold your mother." Jesus did not say "John, behold your mother" because he gave Mary to all of us, his beloved disciples. All the words that Jesus spoke on Cross had a divine purpose. Jesus was not just telling John to take care of his mother.
Rev. 12:17 - this verse proves the meaning of John 19:26. The "woman's" (Mary's) offspring are those who follow Jesus. She is our Mother and we are her offspring in Jesus Christ. The master plan of God's covenant love for us is family. But we cannot be a complete family with the Fatherhood of God and the Brotherhood of Christ without the Motherhood of Mary.
John 2:3 - this is a very signifcant verse in Scripture. As our mother, Mary tells all of us to do whatever Jesus tells us. Further, Mary's intercession at the marriage feast in Cana triggers Jesus' ministry and a foreshadowing of the Eucharistic celebration of the Lamb. This celebration unites all believers into one famiy through the marriage of divinity and humanity.
John 2:7 - Jesus allows His mother to intercede for the people on His behalf, and responds to His mother's request by ordering the servants to fill the jars with water.
Psalm 45:9 - the psalmist teaches that the Queen stands at the right hand of God. The role of the Queen is important in God's kingdom. Mary the Queen of heaven is at the right hand of the Son of God.
1 Kings 2:17, 20 - in the Old Testament Davidic kingdom, the King does not refuse his mother. Jesus is the new Davidic King, and He does not refuse the requests of his mother Mary, the Queen.
1 Kings 2:18 - in the Old Testament Davidic kingdom, the Queen intercedes on behalf of the King's followers. She is the Queen Mother (or "Gebirah"). Mary is our eternal Gebirah.
1 Kings 2:19 - in the Old Testament Davidic kingdom the King bows down to his mother and she sits at his right hand. We, as children of the New Covenant, should imitate our King and pay the same homage to Mary our Mother. By honoring Mary, we honor our King, Jesus Christ.
1 Kings 15:13 - the Queen Mother is a powerful position in Israel's royal monarchy. Here the Queen is removed from office. But now, the Davidic kingdom is perfected by Jesus, and our Mother Mary is forever at His right hand.
2 Chron. 22:10 - here Queen Mother Athalia destroys the royal family of Judah after she sees her son, King Ahaziah, dead. The Queen mother plays a significant role in the kingdom.
Neh. 2:6 - the Queen Mother sits beside the King. She is the primary intercessor before the King.
May the peace of Christ be with you always
ari89
MOSSAD Deputy Director
I'm going on a bos vacation to get to uni work...I'll read this when i get back.robbie1 said:I referred you to Christ himself and showed you how He wanted His Church to be built on a leader, an authority figure, yet you still refuse to believe. Thats your problem, not mine
Now to our Blessed Mother Mary. I know what your response is going to be, so again I tell you its your problem. Your loss. Do you think Jesus would refuse anything his Mother asks him? He gave Mary to us to be our Mother and she intercedes for us.
I'll just tell you a little joke quickly. In heaven, Jesus went to St Peter and said:
"Why are you letting so many people in? Heaven is overflowing!"
St Peter replied, "Lord, I locked the gates, but your Mother keeps opening the windows and letting people in."
Now back to business:
John 19:26 - Jesus makes Mary the Mother of us all as He dies on the Cross by saying "behold your mother." Jesus did not say "John, behold your mother" because he gave Mary to all of us, his beloved disciples. All the words that Jesus spoke on Cross had a divine purpose. Jesus was not just telling John to take care of his mother.
Rev. 12:17 - this verse proves the meaning of John 19:26. The "woman's" (Mary's) offspring are those who follow Jesus. She is our Mother and we are her offspring in Jesus Christ. The master plan of God's covenant love for us is family. But we cannot be a complete family with the Fatherhood of God and the Brotherhood of Christ without the Motherhood of Mary.
John 2:3 - this is a very signifcant verse in Scripture. As our mother, Mary tells all of us to do whatever Jesus tells us. Further, Mary's intercession at the marriage feast in Cana triggers Jesus' ministry and a foreshadowing of the Eucharistic celebration of the Lamb. This celebration unites all believers into one famiy through the marriage of divinity and humanity.
John 2:7 - Jesus allows His mother to intercede for the people on His behalf, and responds to His mother's request by ordering the servants to fill the jars with water.
Psalm 45:9 - the psalmist teaches that the Queen stands at the right hand of God. The role of the Queen is important in God's kingdom. Mary the Queen of heaven is at the right hand of the Son of God.
1 Kings 2:17, 20 - in the Old Testament Davidic kingdom, the King does not refuse his mother. Jesus is the new Davidic King, and He does not refuse the requests of his mother Mary, the Queen.
1 Kings 2:18 - in the Old Testament Davidic kingdom, the Queen intercedes on behalf of the King's followers. She is the Queen Mother (or "Gebirah"). Mary is our eternal Gebirah.
1 Kings 2:19 - in the Old Testament Davidic kingdom the King bows down to his mother and she sits at his right hand. We, as children of the New Covenant, should imitate our King and pay the same homage to Mary our Mother. By honoring Mary, we honor our King, Jesus Christ.
1 Kings 15:13 - the Queen Mother is a powerful position in Israel's royal monarchy. Here the Queen is removed from office. But now, the Davidic kingdom is perfected by Jesus, and our Mother Mary is forever at His right hand.
2 Chron. 22:10 - here Queen Mother Athalia destroys the royal family of Judah after she sees her son, King Ahaziah, dead. The Queen mother plays a significant role in the kingdom.
Neh. 2:6 - the Queen Mother sits beside the King. She is the primary intercessor before the King.
May the peace of Christ be with you always
nice discussing with you.
'till then, cya
Tulipa
Loose lips sink ships
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2004
- Messages
- 1,922
- Gender
- Female
- HSC
- 2005
Wanna know what's funny?
That the Bible really shouldn't be taken literally because it's more a cultural text than a spiritual one.
Also that if it were constantly taken literally... then wow there'd be some interesting ideas.
AND and and you can't just pick and choose what you take literally cause then that doesn't make sense.
God the Bible makes me laugh.
That the Bible really shouldn't be taken literally because it's more a cultural text than a spiritual one.
Also that if it were constantly taken literally... then wow there'd be some interesting ideas.
AND and and you can't just pick and choose what you take literally cause then that doesn't make sense.
God the Bible makes me laugh.
Josie
Everything's perfect!
robbie1 said:May the peace of Christ be with you always
How condescending.
And please, if you're going to display quotes in proof of your statements, quote the exact words of the bible not "now what I think is going on here" We're not interested in how you read the bible, you're trying to prove how the bible backs up your statements. If you don't actually want to show us your proof, well, that's your problem.
All of your New Testament quotes point to Mary being important in Jesus' life. That's all well and good, but how does that lead to the Catholics worshipping her almost equal to Christ's own self?
You also ignored the point earlier about the apostles being authorised to forgive sin... now I may have missed it, but please share the verse where they are authorised to choose others to also forgive sin? I'm not denying the power of the apostles to do so, merely the right of modern day priests to do so. (I've got my old Protestant hat on again...)
So which one is your king? Is it David, or Jesus? Or is the Holy Trinity actually a Holy Quadruplet?
Oh and here's one I've been meaning to ask. Whenever someone brings up a quote from the Old Testament (ie Leviticus and the stoning of homosexuals) in this sort of discussion, the first thing that's usually said is that the New Testament was given to us by Jesus to clarify the way we should live, or something along those lines. If that is in fact true, then why does the Bible still contain the Old Testament? Is it not now obsolete (for everyone excepting the Jews)?
I used to love asking my scripture teacher these questions. I caused the poor woman so much stress. She was just volunteering once a week.
Josie
Everything's perfect!
QFT.Tulipa said:
This was an illuminating quote from yesterday's Herald.. oh, wait, I threw it out. Believe me, it was funny.
It's funny, I stopped being a Christian right around the time we started learning about historiography in high school. What a coincidence.
Tulipa
Loose lips sink ships
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2004
- Messages
- 1,922
- Gender
- Female
- HSC
- 2005
I stopped believing when I was about ten and became far too rational for my own good.
It just doesn't make sense, the Bible, God, everything. I mean, if we took everything from the Bible to be literal and true, then our civilisation would revert back to what it was. It's a cultural text written in patriachial times when things they couldn't explain were rationalised as sinful.
Plus if you want to use points from the Bible to argue then use the whole Bible, the whole messed up work and explain to me how everything is applicable. If you can't well then you're picking and choosing and that's just not fair.
Plus blind faith just doesn't appeal to me.
It just doesn't make sense, the Bible, God, everything. I mean, if we took everything from the Bible to be literal and true, then our civilisation would revert back to what it was. It's a cultural text written in patriachial times when things they couldn't explain were rationalised as sinful.
Plus if you want to use points from the Bible to argue then use the whole Bible, the whole messed up work and explain to me how everything is applicable. If you can't well then you're picking and choosing and that's just not fair.
Plus blind faith just doesn't appeal to me.
Josie
Everything's perfect!
Agreed with all of the above. But I don't preach. Believe what you want to believe, just please please please actually think about it and have a good reason for doing so.
Not-That-Bright
Andrew Quah
The only thing I like about when christians use the bible is that I can get muslims/jews/other christians to argue against them and I don't need to say anything.