The Beijing Olympics (2 Viewers)

[withoutaface]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

The whole boycotting of the Olympics deal to begin with. China isn't the only place where ethics often become questionable, you know? I'm pretty sure if the United States were to host the Olympics this year, there wouldn't be as much international furore and tendency for calls of boycott even though they seem rather content on starting illegal invasions of other sovereign nations.

That's because once they do so they give the power back to the population of that country in a democratic system, and I don't know where you've been looking lately, but the US seems to cop a fair bit of criticism for their actions from the media (http://googlefight.com/index.php?la...ush+totalitarian&word2=hu+jintao+totalitarian chekkit). I mean I don't agree with the 'spreading democracy' thing at all, but to claim that the US' record on human rights even comes close to a country whose history is so abysmal they have to brainwash their population to stop a violent revolt is absurd.

 

[Collin]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

That's because once they do so they give the power back to the population of that country in a democratic system, and I don't know where you've been looking lately, but the US seems to cop a fair bit of criticism for their actions from the media (http://googlefight.com/index.php?la...ush+totalitarian&word2=hu+jintao+totalitarian chekkit). I mean I don't agree with the 'spreading democracy' thing at all, but to claim that the US' record on human rights even comes close to a country whose history is so abysmal they have to brainwash their population to stop a violent revolt is absurd.

Hu Jintao isn't a well known name. Bush is. Bush-bashing in general, I'm quite aware of, believe me!

But suppose the U.S. were holding the olympics this year - I hold high doubts that there would be many calls to boycott the event over actions like Iraq. Politics certainly plays a role (so we see that governments are reluctant to call boycotts for fear of damaging relations with an economic powerhouse), but that's not relevant, since these movements are largely civilian.

but to claim that the US' record on human rights even comes close to a country whose history is so abysmal they have to brainwash their population to stop a violent revolt is absurd.

Not human rights waf, but ethical issues. Perhaps we differ in opinion here, but human rights abuse plays pretty similar cards relative to starting illegal invasions of other countries in my books.

As for 'brainwashing', I think alot of you bunch need to really open your eyes a little wider. When was the last time some of you actually went to China? Or do we all just treat Western media reports as gospel? Try going to Beijing, where the 'lao bai xing' (ordinary Chinese) certainly aren't as brainwashed as some of you would expect. CCTV may be biased, but that doesn't mean the population are CCP zombies.

 

[withoutaface]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

As for 'brainwashing', I think alot of you bunch need to really open your eyes a little wider. When was the last time some of you actually went to China? Or do we all just treat Western media reports as gospel? Try going to Beijing, where the 'lao bai xing' (ordinary Chinese) certainly aren't as brainwashed as some of you would expect. CCTV may be biased, but that doesn't mean the population are CCP zombies.

We got bored at work last week and decided to start adding random Chinese youtube commenters to msn. The results were astonishing, they actually believe that Tiananmen Square was a figment of the western media's imagination and were largely unaware of their government's attempts to regulate their media/internet. If the Chinese government weren't so bad they wouldn't need to imprison bloggers for speaking out against them, they'd allow free expression so the outside world could SEE that the average Chinese person isn't as oppressed as our free Western media would tell us they are.

 

[Collin]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

We got bored at work last week and decided to start adding random Chinese youtube commenters to msn. The results were astonishing, they actually believe that Tiananmen Square was a figment of the western media's imagination and were largely unaware of their government's attempts to regulate their media/internet. If the Chinese government weren't so bad they wouldn't need to imprison bloggers for speaking out against them, they'd allow free expression so the outside world could SEE that the average Chinese person isn't as oppressed as our free Western media would tell us they are.

Well, you'll always have people who are dead brainwashed like that, but to what extent? I seem to get the feel that many Westerners believe the Chinese population by large are ignorant of their government's record in areas such as human rights. That's not the case. They may not know the details as explicitly as such often reported by Western media, but they are not stupid and they are certainly not clueless.

As for speaking out against the government, conditions have improved alot in the last few decades. Back then, it wasn't wise at all to criticise the CCP in pretty much any form. Nowadays, you'd be surprised at the level of negative feedback the government attracts from ordinary Chinese, whether it be via. everyday chatter or just over dinner with family and relatives. Just avoid doing it loud-speaker style. It's a working progress waf, and I think it's important to recognise that too.

As for imprisoning bloggers, that's not something surprising. I wouldn't expect anything less from the CCP in the current times.

 

[Sacrifice]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

The occupation of Tibet by China is brutal with no protective or military considerations to justify it. The Chinese government has built a plethora of settlements in Tibet.

The Chinese have flooded Tibet with so many ethnic Chinese that Tibetans have become a minority in their own land.

As the Dalai Lama summarised in 2000:



Despite the horrendous record of the Chinese, the UN has never condemned China or recognised the rights of Tibetans to self-determination. Instead the international community gave China the Olympics. Funny that.

The world too has forgotten about the Kurds, the Armenians in Turkey, the Chechnens, the Basques, and dozens of other stateless groups.

But now we're stuck with a Prime Minister wanting to get into the back pocket of China, I doubt we'll see much pressure.

Again I reiterate as I did in another post. I miss you John Howard. At least he fought for allegiances to the true democracies of the world.

So China is basically Israel?

Also understand withoutaface that Collin loves China very much according to his ex, so much so, that he was more in love with China, than her.

 

[JaredR]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

No, China is nothing like Israel, if you actually read my post and knew more about Israel you'd realise this, not to mention the fact that unlike Israel China has received no real hard-line accusations from the international community...unjustly.

 

[withoutaface]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

2007 HSC results

Maths Ext1: 5th in state (100)
Maths Ext2: 9th in state (99)

UAI : 99.80


Clearly Asian.

 

[kony]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

yes all asians think alike.

they can only do maths.

they also hate australia! that's why they're here

 

[withoutaface]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

They also provide ridiculous comparisons to justify the Chinese governments actions.

 

[Gay Captain]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

They also provide ridiculous comparisons to justify the Chinese governments actions.

it's good comedy value

 

[_dhj_]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

I don't think we can equate calls for a boycott with an actual boycott. In fact there were Aboriginal protesters that called for a boycott in the lead up to the Sydney Olympics. All China needs is to stage some reconciling symbolism, its own version of Cathy Freeman lighting the flame. Perhaps the torch bearers across the Himalayas will be Tibetans.

 

[Collin]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

How can a government satisfy everyone? There will be minorities in your country who will want change, and lots of it.

But war, violence, and crime are big media topics. They draw ratings. They pander to our love of big social events, to escape the mundane, the tedious, the ennui of "average" stories.

Let's look at the youtube video again: http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=uSQnK5FcKas

Let us consider an analogy. A little more than 2 years ago, police clashed with thousands of people, both wog (i cannot think of the politically correct term) and whites around Sydney. Police were forced to counter it with force of their own.

Let us think back a bit more. Aboriginal deaths in custody. Stolen generations.

How about another example? Australian army in Vietnam, with the Australians requesting Vietnam to invite them to join in. Australians fighting an illegal war, murdering abroad.

A bit more down the track? Censorship in World War I. Most Australians had no idea how many people were dying.

The point here is that the current things the Chinese government are being accused of happens in most countries, and, while accepting that they're not complete clean, we can also accept that they've done a pretty good job. In a quick glance of this thread, we can see the accusations of "brainwashing their citizens" (in relation to Tiananmen Square, analogous to censorship), using force against population (Tibet, compare with Cronulla). Human rights abuse (Aboriginal deaths).

Now one final thought. Suppose Sydney was to host the 2008 Olympics rather than the 2000. Would things like Aboriginal deaths and Cronulla cause a boycott? Would that be fair? What if foreign media took pictures of heavily armed police on a beach wrestling with people with rocks and sticks? What about large fences around public grounds?

I really hate to be against the majority here. But I do agree on one thing. China is not ready to host the Olympics yet. Certainly not Beijing. What a dirty, worn city.

I honestly wouldn't even consider equating events like Cronulla to the cultural genocide that's happening in Tibet, nor the stolen generations since there has obviously been a process of reconcilitation occurring in the past few decades.

I don't support independence for Tibet (nor Taiwan), but Beijing certainly got itself into this mess through the actions of piling up the province with Han Chinese and striking into the heart of the province's Buddhism population by interfering in matters such as the selection of the Panchen Lama. Continually shifting the blame onto the Dalai Lama doesn't help either - I haven't a clue whether or not the CCP knows how much damage it's doing to its image by even trying to pull this shit.

As for Beijing being a 'tired, worn city' - perhaps. Main issues are transport and air pollution. But the public transport system is surprisingly efficient, especially Beijing's subway system - which is more than I can say about Cityrail.

 

[Slidey]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

Collin: Why don't you support Tibet or Taiwan's independence? I'm especially interested in your reasoning for Taiwan.

http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/08/04/06/1643223.shtml

That comes after a recent BBC news story about how China has unblocked the BBC website. Of course the first thing the BBC did was run a story on the Tienanmen Square Massacre, so BBC is probably blocked again.

I'm sure these sites will be blocked again after the Olympics, but for now it could be doing some good (I say could because the firewall and all its minutiae are still in place - such as keyword censorship, censorship of Chinese versions of wikipedia/BBC, observance of sites visited, while still giving the Chinese government the ability to claim it is making the internet 'freer').

 

[Dongle]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

The occupation of Tibet by China is brutal with no protective or military considerations to justify it. The Chinese government has built a plethora of settlements in Tibet.

The Chinese have flooded Tibet with so many ethnic Chinese that Tibetans have become a minority in their own land.

As the Dalai Lama summarised in 2000:

As soon as you get out of the Occupied Palestinian Territories and stop building settlements there, I'll get out of Tibet. Lol.

 

[withoutaface]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

That comes after a recent BBC news story about how China has unblocked the BBC website. Of course the first thing the BBC did was run a story on the Tienanmen Square Massacre, so BBC is probably blocked again.

As far as irl trolls go, the BBC rates pretty highly.

 

[JaredR]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

The West Bank and Gaza were gained in defensive wars. No nation in history has ever had to return land gained in defensive wars.

In 2005 Israel completely disengaged from the Gaza Strip. Since this, the Gazan government has vowed for the destruction of the Jewish State and has perpetrated continuous rocket barrages on communities within Israel proper, a recognised soverign state and UN member.

Israel's "occupation" of a land it gained when war was attempted on it benefits the security of Israel and cannot be compared to Tibet.

Israel has not created a Palestinian minority in the West Bank.

Tibet does not fire missiles indiscriminately into soverign Chinese land.

Tibet has not called for the destruction of China.

China has not faced the continuous tireless persecution of the United Nations as Israel has.

Don't compare Israel with China. It just doesn't work.

 

[MaNiElla]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

The West Bank and Gaza were gained in defensive wars. No nation in history has ever had to return land gained in defensive wars.

Hahahahahhahahahahahahahah

New term for "stealing" eh?

 

[withoutaface]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

Hahahahahhahahahahahahahah

New term for "stealing" eh?

???

1. Arabs attack Israel.
2. Arabs lose. Badly.
3. Arabs have a cry because they were dumb enough to attack in the first place.

 

[JaredR]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

Hahahahahhahahahahahahahah

New term for "stealing" eh?

You're clearly bias and not worth the time...yes it was stealing - on the part of the Arab States who tried to steal Israel from the Jews.

 

[MaNiElla]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

Okay dear, whatever *shrug*