The Abortion Debate... (3 Viewers)

[MoonlightSonata]

Bill of rights limits the rights that can be included...in that you only have the rights which are contained within the bill...whatever you leave out isnt a right...but you knew that

That's not a problem if you put them in in the first place


imo it would still be better than our current system

 

[girlanachronism]

condoms are pretty cheap...i doubt the government would impose on the people another tax so that condoms become free

Um, for most people. However the highest incidence of teenage pregnancy is in the low income bracket - many of these girls actually can't afford condoms

 

[Ziff]

yeah probably...i mean genocide is not considered unconstitutional under Australlain law!

Kruger v The commonwealth

The worrying thing is that the High Court did not establish the unconstitutionality of genocide!


Justice Dawson (famous for being the only dissenting judge in mabo) said that there was nothing stopping the government authorising acts of genocide!


The other judges - Brennan CJ, Toohey, Gummo JJ defered their opinion on genocide as it didnt really relate to the issue...

Don't international treaties and jus cogens make genocide and all that sort of illegal? Or is it constitutional because it's being done within our borders and we're not doing it to someone else?

 

[loquasagacious]

prevention is better than cure

Unfortunately christian conservatives dont seem to like either option.

A k-10 christian school is around the corner from my school (public school), we did se-ed in junior years, they pretty much skipped it. Alot of them came to my school to do yrs 11-12 the preganancy rate for them is 20% compared to under 1% for rest of my year.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

yeah probably...i mean genocide is not considered unconstitutional under Australlain law!

Kruger v The commonwealth

The worrying thing is that the High Court did not establish the unconstitutionality of genocide!


Justice Dawson (famous for being the only dissenting judge in mabo) said that there was nothing stopping the government authorising acts of genocide!


The other judges - Brennan CJ, Toohey, Gummo JJ defered their opinion on genocide as it didnt really relate to the issue...

yes hehe

quite worrying

I have always looked at Dawson in another light after I found out he dissented

 

[malkin86]

I didn't get the condom-banana lesson... I feel slightly cheated.

 

[timrie6]

Abortions are a legal right and should stay that way.

wow we agree on something thorrny. I believe a woman should have the right to make decisions about her own body.

 

[timrie6]

You're right, prevention is better than cure, in that respect, we should be revamping our school sex-ed classes to prevent women being put into that position in the first place. I'm all for handing out condoms in fact, though I imagine it'd cause equally as much controversy as abortion does in the first place.

condoms break though! contraceptives arent 100% effective. that is why abortion should be an option.

 

[Nick]

don't you think it is strange that many conservatives are anti-abortion, but pro the death penalty? strikes me as pretty hypocritical

 

[Rorix]

Abortion is murder. Let's not fool ourselves. (I am prepared to defend this statement in this thread).



I am however, in favour of it.

 

[thejosiekiller]

its such a load of bshit- the family first politician is just trying to stir up some debate on the matter as it is one of their "core" policies, its nothing new that no one didnt already know about...he scored a seat based on preferences, personally i think he should wait until family first (if they ever do) get more of a footing before trying to "raise awareness" on the matter.

but when sex ed was done at my school in yr6 they had a old fat nurse give us a few lectures on stds to try and scare us- stupid bitch didnt realise that goes over the heads of young boys when concerning sex- cause i can only remember those stupid jokes every1 made in class.

and rorix do u believe abortion is murder because u see the fact that a foetus is only considered alive after birth? cause ive meet ppl who strongly feel that mothers who truly want to raise a child and are robbed of that by someone who murders the child - i think this was from a car crash where a drunk driver crashed into the mothers car....he survived and the mother did, but the unborn child didnt- he never faced murder charges for it and she was to say the least incredibly pissed off, still he is in prison for dangerous drink driving. thats pretty much the way i remember that story when it was told to me by a friend

 

[MoonlightSonata]

It depends on whether you regard a foetus as a person

 

[Rorix]

If the foetus isn't a person, what is it? An elephant? A walrus? A bottle of Coke?

 

[Ziff]

When is a child formed though? Is it when the first cell divides, when it's born or somewhere in between?

 

[Rorix]

Science says contraception.

 

[Generator]

My mum and dad told me that it was up in the stars.

Edit: Freedom of choice, and I do not know when a child becomes a child... Maybe when the issue arises in a personal sense (which I hope does not happen).

 

[propagandhi]

it is sorta funny that they believe in the death penalty and a right to life....
bah... but hypocrisy is part of the style

they would whinge about all the 'dole-bludger' mothers struggling to raise their kids on a trickle of government money... hmm

but not allow abortion
interesting

 

[Not-That-Bright]

the problem with the abortion debate is... while i love saying 'just kill it whenever you want to, it's your right' I don't see it that way in some circumstances....
Like if you're raped, or it endangers your life... sure you should have an abortion, but just because of an unwanted pregnancy? i don't think that is right.

I've seen the 3d ultrasound things for babies that are still in the category to be aborted... it's fairly obvious that it's a little human.. A lady came to our school and explained to us the kind of pain she goes through knowing that she killed her baby now (benefit of hindsight).

I dunno, it's a tough issue.

edit: no one whinges about dole bludging mothers when their children are <5, but once ur child is in school you can get a day job.
I don't believe in the death penalty for everyone... but for people that are obvious murderers like Martin Bryant (port arthur) they should definately be killed. You're comparing a baby that's never done anything wrong with a mass-murderer.

 

[+Po1ntDeXt3r+]

Science says contraception.

science doesnt realli define autonomy and self-conscienceness until about 2-3 months neonatal.. which would be a person....
it only says it has the potential to be at contraception.. but its still only a few cells.. and spontaneous abortions caused by gene defects and other natural accidents are highest at 0-8 weeks..
other wise a legal and moral answer would be easy..

if we say abortion is illegal and its not defined well.. then problems could arise..because pregnancy is so fragile..

 

[thejosiekiller]

the problem with the abortion debate is... while i love saying 'just kill it whenever you want to, it's your right' I don't see it that way in some circumstances....
Like if you're raped, or it endangers your life... sure you should have an abortion, but just because of an unwanted pregnancy? i don't think that is right.

I've seen the 3d ultrasound things for babies that are still in the category to be aborted... it's fairly obvious that it's a little human.. A lady came to our school and explained to us the kind of pain she goes through knowing that she killed her baby now (benefit of hindsight).

I dunno, it's a tough issue.

edit: no one whinges about dole bludging mothers when their children are <5, but once ur child is in school you can get a day job.
I don't believe in the death penalty for everyone... but for people that are obvious murderers like Martin Bryant (port arthur) they should definately be killed. You're comparing a baby that's never done anything wrong with a mass-murderer.

what about the issue of having an abortions knowing you wouldnt be able to support the child??

if u think its okay to have an abortion if you were a rape victim or if i" threatens ur life, then what do u think about the welfare of the child's life after birth? uve said some mothers regret killing their child, but in the end it was thier decision and im assuming she was presented with all the infromation she would have needed- she has to live with the consequences, which is unfair because she choose to abort....btw why did she abort? did she tell you her reasons?

but ur right its a very dificult issue- and i have lots of sympathy for ppl contemplating having to abort an unborn child