TAIWAN INDEPENDENCE: Unites States & China....? (2 Viewers)

[berry580]

The PROC did the exact same thing as they took china from the ROC.....

LOL! WTF?!!

The KMT (now the opposition of Taiwan/ROC) had a widespread in corruption when they were in control of mainland China. As a result, most peasants soon or later supported the Communist government, and the Communist soon overpowered the KMT's with manpower.
If most of the civilians had supported the government, then what the f--- do you mean by "PROC did the exact same thing as they took china from the ROC"?!! (what the f--- are you on about?)

What you said basically doesn't makes sense, but by the knowledge of the Chinese history and by common sense, I'll try reply as relevant as possible.

I think what you're thinking about are the torturings carried put by the poorer citizens backed by the Communist government to the rich ones.
Yes, it may have sounded 'unhuman,' but considering how the rich ones had retreated the peasants before, it really balances out in the end.
Before the Communist took control, farm land were owned only by the rich people. They put up rents are an unreasonable rate to the point where farmers simply had no capacity in paying, especially when there are natural disasters. When the farmers don't pay enough, the farmer's son/s are sold to be slaves, daughter/s sold to be slaves and prostitutes, and wives sold to be slaves and prostitutes too.

If you just have a brain with over a double digit IQ, then I should need to further explanation to get my point through.

 

[Phanatical]

Hear Hear!

Just look at events like the 1927 Shanghai Massacre.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Why cant taiwan have the same sort of deal that canada & australia have with great britain? We're still officially under their power... but pretty much make our own decisions, control our own economy, set up our own embassies and represent ourselves in our own way to the world.

Re-unification with China hasn't been that good for hong kong... Hong Kong is now flooded with whores from the mainland comming in on 2 week visas to sell themselves off, some teens... Law and order has deteriorated, people are comming in willing to work for ALOT less.. The standard of living has come down.

Sure right now Hong Kong has managed to remain fairly separated from the mainland... but it seems that china doesn't want to liberalise its self and make its self more acceptable to the world... they instead plan to slowly phase out things like the opinionated news papers etc.

 

[berry580]

Hear Hear!

Just look at events like the 1927 Shanghai Massacre.

Are you trying to tell me the Communist did it?

Why cant taiwan have the same sort of deal that canada & australia have with great britain? We're still officially under their power... but pretty much make our own decisions, control our own economy, set up our own embassies and represent ourselves in our own way to the world.

Why do everyone have to follow British's footstep?
Why can't a government choose to be united?
Why can't the Taiwanese (Chinese rebels) unite with their mainland counterparts?
Why do the Americans have to support the Chinese rebels?
Why did the white settlers massacred the indigenous people like killing chickens?
Why can't BoA* (my avatar) be my girlfriend?!!! :'(

You know, things in this world just happens, and you don't have to follow British's footstep.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Due to the 'war on terror' america has positioned alot of its aircraft in guam, etc .. it is believed by the chinese military that this is actually a defensive move to enclose china.

If PROC are so bold as to launch their 500-600 watever missiles at taiwan, kill 1000's of people, destroy homes, buildings, offices, airports.... then they deserve what's comming to them.

 

[Phanatical]

Are you trying to tell me the Communist did it?

Most definitely not.

 

[funky_mushroom]

im sure the GMD did some pretty shitty things in mainland china when they were in power eg shanghai massacre, hiding their troops during the sino-jap war, extermination campaigns and the list goes on but im sure PRC did some terrible shit during their time as well... and thats not even the point

i agree with not that bright there =P i see taiwan-china relationship kinda like aussie-g.b.

Why can't a government choose to be united?
Why can't the Taiwanese (Chinese rebels) unite with their mainland counterparts?

You know, things in this world just happens, and you don't have to follow British's footstep.

because the taiwanese government doesnt WANT to be united because they see themselves as their own country. and obviously the ppl dont want to either since they did elect a pro-independence government earlier this year... and even if they didnt, the other party intended to leave things as they are right now [sorta like the australia-great britain relationship but not really]. this aint 50 years ago where they both claim themselves to be the legit ruler of CHINA. the current govt wants taiwan to be taiwan and not china. and like you said, things in this world just happens and if ppl dont want to unite then they wont. what does china gain from uniting with taiwan? but if they do unite, the taiwan would have some new governing system and laws forced onto them... ppl in taiwan love their politics, they like to openly attack eachother in the streets when they dont like what party the other support - if taiwan and china fulli unites then who are they going to attack T-T china should just leave taiwan be. they've been living the way they have for 50 years - and i think they like the way it is now ~_~

seriously all they want is to b represented in the U.N. and in the olympics as Taiwan and not Chinese taipei or some gay name like that... if the ppl living there dont see themselves as citizens of China, but as citizens of taiwan, why force some new shit onto em? whats wrong with the way it is now... and if it aint broke... dont fix it?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

The taiwanese people currently don't want to unite with china... I see this only going 3 ways...
- China liberalises its self.. the people of taiwan decide they wanna unite with them.
- China accepts taiwan as a separate nation.
- China bombs the shit out of taiwan killing 1000's of innocent people over 'pride', which alot of chinese mainland people do not want.

 

[funky_mushroom]

^ yea
lets hope it's not going to be the third option D=

 

[Not-That-Bright]

The sort of passion in which people here talk about taiwan either becomming a part of china or there will be war worries me....

 

[Phanatical]

They shouldn't be represented at the UN, any more than the Aborigines should be. And there's no fucking way they should be allowed to compete as a separate nation at the Olympics. I am looking forward in 2008, to seeing One, united Chinese team. None of this HK team, Taiwan team bullshit, just one Chinese team under the People's Flag.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

If the aboriginal people were all living on a separate island (ie christmas island), with different laws, a different system of government... I would say they could declare independance if they wanted to.

Phanatical how far are you willing to take this grudge? If the taiwanese people declare independance are you willing to see their nation crushed, crumbled... all infrastructure destroyed...
The world has never and hopefully will never see a war as tragic as a war for taiwan would be.

 

[funky_mushroom]

obviously phanatical dont really give a shit about how the people AFFECTED feel. as long as China gets their province back, who gives a rat's ass what these ppl want ~_~ i

 

[Bone577]

Self-determination is a human right, Taiwan is entitled to independance much like Tibet, Chechnya, Ireland, East Timor and Palestine are, any attempts to stop independance is criminal.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I agree entirely, with all of the countries you mentioned.

 

[funky_mushroom]

yahuh

phanatical n berry580, ur knowledge of china-taiwan history is amazing but we're talking about now, 50 years after the ccp-gmd split... its a new era and politics shouldnt really be based on what happened so long along ~_~ its more about what ppl want, what they feel would be better for them... you said before that

If China is allowed to be split, then believe me, there will be hell on earth, and I don't just mean China either - I mean hell to pay in every single country with a Chinese population.

and i asked you why... i dont think you answered it. why would it be so bad? why would there be hell on earth that ppl see china as a nation that cares about what people want and not insist on a war based on its inflated ego... why would it be bad that china is smart enough to make a friendly neighbour instead of having a hostile province? if china forces taiwan into unity then man, its not gunna b very united =P and they'll b heaps o trouble and im sure China has other problems of its own without having to deal with some troublesome province

blah~

 

[Christine Lo]

They shouldn't be represented at the UN, any more than the Aborigines should be. And there's no fucking way they should be allowed to compete as a separate nation at the Olympics. I am looking forward in 2008, to seeing One, united Chinese team. None of this HK team, Taiwan team bullshit, just one Chinese team under the People's Flag.

would you stop making personal offence? Taiwan team won three medals. two silver and one bronze. You call that bullshit? then what about teams that won none?you are citicising the whole world!

 

[Phanatical]

obviously phanatical dont really give a shit about how the people AFFECTED feel. as long as China gets their province back, who gives a rat's ass what these ppl want ~_~ i

99% of Chinese people support the Reunificiation of China under One flag. This includes 99% of people on Taiwan Province. You're damn right I don't give a shit about the 1% of KMT bastards who want to destroy our country, because they have no loyalty to the Middle Kingdom as much as they do their own fucking coffers

Self-determination is a human right, Taiwan is entitled to independance much like Tibet, Chechnya, Ireland, East Timor and Palestine are, any attempts to stop independance is criminal.

Taiwan is NOT entitled to independence, any more than Tasmania is. The Only way it can achieve independence is if the rest of the Nation agrees, and it doesn't. Hell, I'll personally kill as many separatists as I can before I allow it to happen.

 

[Bone577]

Taiwan is NOT entitled to independence, any more than Tasmania is. The Only way it can achieve independence is if the rest of the Nation agrees, and it doesn't. Hell, I'll personally kill as many separatists as I can before I allow it to happen.

Yes it is. Tasmania would also have the right if it so wished. This is all covered in the UN charter and numerous resolutions since.

I don't see why Taiwan would need China's permission to become independant either. Has there ever been a struggle for independance that wasn't opposed by the imperialist power that wished to maintain their colony/state/region and in this case province? I suppose Indonesia must agree with the East Timorese for them to be independant, or the British with the Americans, or the USSR/Russia with the (former) Yugoslavs.

Your claim that it can only achieve independance if China agrees is devoid morally and legally, it is no wonder you didn't bother to give any reason for your claim.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

How can we accept any thoughts u have on this issue then?! Your willing to see taiwan destroyed over PROC's pride!