TAIWAN INDEPENDENCE: Unites States & China....? (3 Viewers)

[dave_119]

i'll tell u more if u want, trust me i no a lot about chechnya

 

[ZabZu]

Oki lets get back to Taiwan for a minute. Following the Chinese Civil War and the communist victory in 1949, the members of the democratic regime fled to Taiwan. So you have a communist China and a democratic Taiwan. For this reason i do not believe its like Hawaii or Tasmania seperating from the rest of its respective country.

Russia's situation with Chechnya reminds me a lot of Israel's situation with the Palestinians, except Russia has a lot more land to play with. I agree with Dave that following the fall of the Soviet Union Russia has found it very difficult to give up control and influence of certain territories. We are seeing this again today with the dispute in the Ukraine.

 

[mr EaZy]

i think you no very little.....

Forget oil, forget the mafiya, forget global strategy, forget islamic fundamentalists, forget all that strategic Trans Caucasian gobbledy gook. .

*know - right?

all i was saying that chechnya has no resources for russia, considering they bombed the shit out of it

Chechnya does have oil, whether or not it is the reason for the current and ongoing conflict is besides the point!

 

[mr EaZy]

It took a while (four months) for Yeltsin backers to figure out that Putin needed something more than his lack of charisma to get elected. So voila. Nasty apartment bombings (engineering by the Putin's buds at the FSB), attacks on Dagestani villages and Basayev and his volunteers come running. So its Wag the Wolf: The Ultimate Election Blockbuster! Mug the Media: The Ultimate Horror Story! Both films are now playing in Chechnya. Ex-spy Putin took a page from ex-spy Bush and ex-caught-in-the-bush Clinton to create a media-blind election event. Smash the terrorists! (bomb the old people), Win the war! (lock up the journos), Conquer Chechnya! (stay out of the towns), War without Casualties! (burn them in piles) and so on.

For now, Chechnya is a nice place if you sell Grad Rockets and have one of those 50's era basements.

the media wasnt that tightly bound, we did have access to war casualties from both sides, i know i did. i dont know where u got basayev from, he got out of the political; scene a long time ago even though putin denies it. I think u were referring to Burayev

u realise that ur story on wolves (which i didnt read -sorry) and the one above have no poliutical basis, the one above is all conspiracy theory- may be true though, but u dont go around political threads without evidence!!

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[loquasagacious]

Dave I suspect you are knowledgable however you speak in sensationalist and simplistic tones which detracts from this.

Whilst your ideological position I feel leaves something to be desired one point you make is sound - Chechnya is not desired by Russia for any reason beyond national pride and a feeling that perhaps you can relate to more - that Chechnya is Russia's backyard much like say South America is to the US (under the Monroe Docterine).

However returning to China/Taiwan.

With the direction that China is going I see no reason for Taiwan not to rejoin China - much like Hong-Kong it could be slowly integrated and would become a free-market area much like Shang-Hai. I think that this should be a negotiated issue avoiding saber-rattling by China and the US.

It is old cold-war warriors in the US who still believe China to be a communist state to be opposed at all costs - the new reality is that in a cold-war between China and the USA both have won. China is adopting capitalism and will over time adopt democracy (a win for the states) it will soon be a bigger more powerful economy than the US (a win for China).

I do not doubt that if pushed China would militarily prevent Taiwan declaring independance - in this event I believe the US or anybody else has no business interferring, in what is essentially a civil war.

 

[dave_119]

the media wasnt that tightly bound, we did have access to war casualties from both sides, i know i did. i dont know where u got basayev from, he got out of the political; scene a long time ago even though putin denies it. I think u were referring to Burayev

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u do realise basayev is one of chechnya's greatest terrorsists/ con man.. he successfully played yelstin, into beleiving he was against chechnya

 

[dave_119]

However returning to China/Taiwan.

With the direction that China is going I see no reason for Taiwan not to rejoin China - much like Hong-Kong it could be slowly integrated and would become a free-market area much like Shang-Hai. I think that this should be a negotiated issue avoiding saber-rattling by China and the US.

.

wasn't hong kong handed back to china in 97?? = gain for china
gradual handover of chinese taipei to the taiwanese = loss for china

 

[Phanatical]

The British gained a 99 year lease from Qing China, which expired in 1997 (the British offered China a Lot for an extended lease, but China refused). Like Taiwan Province, Hong Kong SAR has always been under the sovereignty of China, only now the PRC plays a more pronounced role within the region.

 

[funky_mushroom]

Taiwan will NEVER be independent. It has always been, and forever will be a province of China, and that 1% of separatist scum who support "Taiwan Independence" had better realise that soon.

more like 50.2% of "separatist scum" =P
i think taiwan should stay the way it is and it has been for the past 50 years... China doesnt forcefully influence the way taiwan is governed and there is no need to risk a war =\ i don't like the government in power now =(

 

[Phanatical]

50.2% my ass. I don't support it. Nor do most Chinese, whether we live in the Motherland or in Australia. The separatists are the scum of the Chinese people, and make the rest of us look bad. Maybe we should do to them what their fathers and grandfathers did to the rest of China. Anybody here heard of the 1927 Shanghai Massacre?

 

[funky_mushroom]

lol oops im sorry i thort u meant 1% of the ppl in taiwan =)
you cant hold them responsible for what their grandparents did

 

[Phanatical]

Of course I don't hold them responsible for the 1927 Shanghai Massacre. But they are STILL trying to destroy China, and the Communist Party. If China is allowed to be split, then believe me, there will be hell on earth, and I don't just mean China either - I mean hell to pay in every single country with a Chinese population.

 

[funky_mushroom]

why's that

 

[mr EaZy]

It took a while (four months) for Yeltsin backers to figure out that Putin needed something more than his lack of charisma to get elected. So voila. Nasty apartment bombings (engineering by the Putin's buds at the FSB), attacks on Dagestani villages and Basayev and his volunteers come running.
.

charisma was never a big deal in russian elections, however, i do admit that i got it wrong- i mistook basayev for maskhadov- sorry!

Win the war! (lock up the journos), Conquer Chechnya! (stay out of the towns), War without Casualties! (burn them in piles) and so on.

.

but still basayev has been a rebel long before u or i were even born! why do u make it seem like the elections (for putin) triggered the current conflict? no one is reffering it as a war!- no body - not even the UN or anybody!
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Russia has let go of many of its territories- look at the many former soviet reps- but russia made sure their leaders were pro-russia and not the west. Russia still has a big influence over the region- thats why russia is angry with the US getting into Georgia and not happy about the pro west politicians in kiev.

Russia has already given autonomy to Chechnya- they have put in pro russian leaders, but the scene is not right to give full independance, the country can easily go anti- russian. I agree that its a matter of pride, but also because Russia needs to gain maximum influence over that region at all times
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[loquasagacious]

wasn't hong kong handed back to china in 97?? = gain for china
gradual handover of chinese taipei to the taiwanese = loss for china

What I am suggesting is that much like Hong-Kong Taiwan/Chineese Taipie/Formosa be slowly re-integrated into mainland china.

 

[berry580]

And considering that Taiwan is such a popular tourist destination. Pfft, you were a fool to have made such a comparison. Like Taiwan was ever bombed by the japs, ha! and I... oh wait.

I don't know if Japan ever bombed Taiwan, all I know is that they invaded and colonised Taiwan.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

If an island of people WANT independance.. let them have it...

If tasmania decided they wanted independance from mainland australia i would welcome it.

 

[ur_inner_child]

If an island of people WANT independance.. let them have it...

If tasmania decided they wanted independance from mainland australia i would welcome it.

um.

I know you know it's much more complicated than that.....

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I know alot about the situation, i also feel that the taiwanese USED to want independance... but as china is becoming a more democratic nation the people of taiwan are open to unity.

I think this is a moot discussion because i believe in the end the people of taiwan will want to be a part of china.

 

[berry580]

If an island of people WANT independance.. let them have it...

If tasmania decided they wanted independance from mainland australia i would welcome it.

LOL!!
Try say that the John Howard or ANY politician in this world. Besides proving your immaturity, you've proven nothing more.

Maintain a government's sovereignty over their territory is a very large concern of any country's leader, you don't just 'give it away' like how you can give your lunch to your friend back in primary. LOL