Sydney uni to reintroduce maths prerequisites (1 Viewer)

[tywebb]

For many years Australian universities have removed maths prerequisites leading to too many students capable of succeeding in 2 unit doing general maths instead.

But now Sydney uni is trying to reverse the trend announcing that beginning in 2019 prerequisites for maths will be brought back giving current year 10 students time to make better decisions for choosing year 11 subjects. It is hoped that many other unis will follow their lead in this regard.

I have attached the article from the Financial Review.

Even though this will start in 2019 it affects year 10 students THIS YEAR since it will affect the choices they make for year 11 subjects.

 

[leehuan]

Thank you USyd for doing something right.

 

[si2136]

This would be good since it stopped people from getting into courses just to fail.

 

[BandSixFix]

I was always UNSW anyways

 

[nerdasdasd]

For many years Australian universities have removed maths prerequisites leading to too many students capable of succeeding in 2 unit doing general maths instead.

But now Sydney uni is trying to reverse the trend announcing that beginning in 2019 prerequisites for maths will be brought back giving current year 10 students time to make better decisions for choosing year 11 subjects. It is hoped that many other unis will follow their lead in this regard.

I have attached the article from the Financial Review.

Even though this will start in 2019 it affects year 10 students THIS YEAR since it will affect the choices they make for year 11 subjects.

FINALLY!

Now there won't be people in class that say "uhh... how do you factorise?" or "What's a quadratic?" in a finance or economics major tute!

 

[InteGrand]

I know this question is off-topic but why were the prerequisites removed in the first place? Universities in other states have had prerequisites for years.

I think there were many reasons. One reason can be found by reading the first few paragraphs of the article in this post:

http://community.boredofstudies.org...s-among-high-school-students.html#post7104785

 

[eyeseeyou]

They should do this for every uni

 

[leehuan]

It clearly was a very stupid idea. I always thought that universities in NSW removed prerequisites because they understood that not everyone knew what they wanted to study at university when choosing their year 11 subjects - clearly I was wrong!

In all honesty, by Year 11 they should've had some clue instead of be completely oblivious.

Whilst two years allows for change, quite rarely does it invoke significant change.

 

[tywebb]

clearly I was wrong!

Clearly Ian Chubb was wrong when he (as vice-chancellor of the ANU) instigated the first of the removals of prerequisites. Other unis followed the ANU at the time and also removed prerequisites. The article InteGrand referred to blamed all the universities. But it failed to mention Ian Chubb's role in it.

After leaving his job as VC of ANU he later admitted that it was the biggest mistake of his career.

So you can blame all the unis if you want, but I just blame 1 person - Ian Chubb. He won't mind me doing that (or sue me for defamation) - because he agrees with me now.

 

[milkytea99]

This should've been implemented in Australia all the while instead of implementing the change now, which is quite late IMO.

 

[InteGrand]

This should've been implemented in Australia all the while instead of implementing the change now, which is quite late IMO.

Well better late than never (there actually were prerequisites in the past, but they were removed).

 

[Silky_Smooth]

IMO they should implement necessary prerequisites to all university courses, so that people that do 'easy' subjects cannot get into Law, Med etc. This would separate the dropouts from those that want to succeed in their course

 

[tywebb]

I think we need to explore the reason Ian Chubb now admits his decision was wrong.

It is a funding issue and politicians have too much power in this country.

His admission wasn’t just about prerequisites. It was also about not standing up to the politicians and saying no to them. You know that a Vice-Chancellor’s job is not just academic but also political.

His decision at the time was political and clearly not academic.

Ever since then most academics have condemned his decision.

 

[Silky_Smooth]

But what would the pre-requisite(s) for one of your examples, Law, be?

Legal studies, Maths Ext 1, possibly a science subject (I know that this is largely unrelated to the course, but it would certainly prove that you are capable enough to do law)

 

[Trebla]

Legal studies, Maths Ext 1, possibly a science subject (I know that this is largely unrelated to the course, but it would certainly prove that you are capable enough to do law)

We don't want to make the subject choices for the HSC students lol

 

[leehuan]

All universities care about is taking your money. If something makes a degree more accessible then someone will instigate it. And then a ripple effect.

Assuming the above posts are true, everything has to go back to the instigator to blame.

 

[Flop21]

Legal studies, Maths Ext 1, possibly a science subject (I know that this is largely unrelated to the course, but it would certainly prove that you are capable enough to do law)

What math do you need in legal studies (or what MX1 math)?

 

[Silky_Smooth]

We don't want to make the subject choices for the HSC students lol

At the same time you don't want to give them too much flexibility lol. Looking back on it, I think that Legal studies OR Maths Ext 1 OR a science would be more appropriate

 

[tywebb]

everything has to go back to the instigator to blame.

Yeah. Blame Ian Chubb.

But to his credit here is what Ian Chubb has to say about it now (as part of the amsi article at http://amsi.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/The_Update_10_15.pdf ):

Many great minds have contemplated over the centuries what the purpose of education should be. It is perhaps the most important question that any society can strive to answer, because it is really a measure of our capacity to think beyond ourselves to the needs of a different world.

If we were sensible, we would want to pass that test with flying colours; and most of all in the STEM disciplines so vital to our future prosperity.

We would do many things a lot more intelligently, efficiently and ambitiously if we made the future a habit of mind: like recognising teaching as a high- value profession, and investing in the best possible training and career-long support.

We could go so far as to say that every science, mathematics and ICT class should be taught by a person qualified in the subject; in a well-equipped science, mathematics or ICT classroom.

I have never understood why these two things are thought so impossible by so many well-intentioned people.

But even if these eminently sensible things are somehow too hard, surely we ought to be able to at least agree that the skills pipeline is long; that school education should adequately prepare you for further education; and that the pre-requisites attached to university courses send signals that influence student choices.

What does it say to you that no fewer than 12 Australian universities do not require a student to study mathematics, at even the most basic level, to enrol in a science degree?

What does it say to you that 18 Australian universities do not indicate a need for mathematical literacy to study commerce?

It says to me that this country is failing the test of the future, discouraging students from performing at the level of their potential and setting up far too many for disappointment in study, and in life.

We can and ought do better.

 

[Silky_Smooth]

I disagree, there are many students who aren't good at maths/science who are doing well in law.

Agree, but there are also many that get in without doing many maths/science based subjects only to dropout later