syallbus pt on opposing views of einstein and planck? (1 Viewer)

[unfold]

hi people.

"discuss Einstein and Planck's differing views about whether science research is removed from social and political forces"

what is this point all about? i'm so lost! because the syallbus maker has ended up saying he worded it wrong and that there has been never a conflict b/w the two scientists yet anyhow it's still valuable to be included in the curriculum. (at least, no direct conflict, or evidence to suggest it)

 

[DementedDonkey]

hey, do you have the physics success one book? there was an hsc question one year taken directly from this dotpoint, i found their answer really helpful in understanding what actually needed to be covered, so if you have it, it would probably be valuable to check it up.

 

[shafqat]

My physics teachers and others complained to BOS abt how that dot point was bs, cos einstein and planck never did argue. they modified the original dot point, and now its even more ambiguous. but anyway, hope this helps.

 

[illusions]

That was a question in an assesment we just had too. There was no damn conflict! There was not even a significnt difference in views! Einstein was Jewish, Planck supported the Jews and did not support the Nazis. The only thing I could find that Einstein more actively opposed the Nazis, while Planck tried to work within a corrupt system, but that isn't even relevant!

/rage

 

[davo_]

It's true there was no direct conflict. I remember answering questions on this sorta stuff last year. Um yer there was a bit of a difference between the two. It basically relates to the way differences in which the two conducted their science. Einstein thought study and research should be done for the sake of science, whereas Planck was conducting his study to help the German war effort - his study was controlled by the government. It wasn't really to do with their ideas related to religion(Einstein being Jewish) and things like that. I know I haven't explained that really well but that'll have to do.

 

[helper]

This is going to be one of those dot points that will be explained by the examination comittee when the marking scheme is devised.

What people have said above is what most of the study guides have decided is the answer.

A couple of references
http://www.aip.org/history/einstein/public3.htm
http://www.sparknotes.com/biography/planck/
http://www.sparknotes.com/biography/einstein/

A few other points.
Planck was one of the founders and promotors of the German Science Societies that was set up to promote scientific research and Genrman nationalism. They were also set up to drag in funding from industry, politics and other sources. He would offer large packages to enlist scientists that could promote these goals.
Einstein accepted one of these packages but saw himself as a whore for money by working for Universities.

Planck was willing to appease to pressure of acceptance as he told Einstein and to head in the direction of acceptance for scientific research that Einstein ignored.
"As an older friend, I must advise against it....In the first place, you won't succeed and even if you do, no one will believe you"

In reference to the manifesto in WW1, Einstein saw ignorance as no excuse. He said
"Inunumerably often, in these gloomy years of general nationalisitic blindness, men of science and arts have made public declerations which have already unmeasurably damaged feelings of solidarity among those who are devoting themselves to higher and freer goals"
This shows what he thought of the importance of global cooperation for scientific reseach and while nationalism should not come into against Plancks view. Although Planck later was one of the pushers to bring Germany back into the international scienctifc community.

During the first world war he protested within the Academy about the direction of research, while Planck was happy to follow the directions of the government.


I am trying to come up with a more thorough answer but probably won't have it finished to some time in the holidays.

 

[sadpwner]

I can't find the question in the hsc past papers. Where is it?

 

[Mr_Kap]

Answer from the Student's guide to HSC physics

Einstein and Planck initially held differing views as to the relationship between science and politics,
but in the end they both came to realise the two were intrinsically linked.
Einstein at first refused to support the war or use science to help governments fight the war, believing
that science was removed from social and political forces. However, in the end he came to the
realisation that the two are in fact linked together, and he ended up helping with the Manhattan
project which almost certainly contributed to the ending of the war.
Planck initially felt that science definitely had a role to play in terms of politics, but eventually he
turned against the Nazi regime, criticising it, believing that science should be separate. However,
he understood that there is an unavoidable link between science and politics. Even after Planck
attempted to separate science from politics, research science for the military continued through
other scientists.
In a way, both Planck and Einstein are representative of the wider debate in science that continues
even today as to the role the government’s agenda should be in terms of scientific research, but they,
like today’s scientists, realised that science and politics can never be separated, even if that is the
ideal situation.

Remember- Both scientists eventually agreed that science and politics are inextricably linked. They
also agreed that ideally they would be separate. Einstein initially believed they had to be kept sepa-
rate but then realised they couldn’t. Planck initially believed they had to be kept together, but then
realised they shouldn’t.

 

[sadpwner]

Do you know the merits and drawbacks of each view?

Also, I meant what year and what question was this question asked in the hsc? What was the answer provided by the successone textbook?